33 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

Id assume youd put selfless on Dutch since hes not doing anything beyond passing locks. Not sure what wedge is doing in that list though, maybe jedi insurance?

You put it on Braylen to eat crits aimed at Dutch (also Braylen rerolls make him slightly harder to kill), Cassian pulls stress when needed, and Wedge is more Ace insurance that strictly Jedi insurance. If you are going to drop him, I guess question is, what are you subbing for 55 points? Norra? Thane? Biggs?

39 minutes ago, gennataos said:

It's always on passive mods that don't have to be earned aside from paying the cost of the pilot or upgrade and cannot be denied by my opponent in any way. That's in direct opposition to what I thought the original design philosophy of 2.0 was, but I might just being inferring that.

Fair.

I might be an oddity in that when there were a couple of exceptions (Luke/Vader/Asajj) it didn't feel too bad. Yes, they were strong, some VERY strong (Kylo seems to apply) but it didn't feel too badly. Could be an illusion I haven't been able to see through yet.

52 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

I’m still not sold that the force alone is a problem.

Aetherprites come with built in card combos

I agree. Just look at recent top cuts, Aethersprites everywhere, Kylo, not so much.

Also Finn is stupid broken, plz nerf.

16 minutes ago, DXCrazytrain said:

I agree. Just look at recent top cuts, Aethersprites everywhere, Kylo, not so much.

Also Finn is stupid broken, plz nerf.

...yeah, this.

They certainly are hard to kill and man, they look more fun to fly than my FO's.

I got a joke....

What uses one crew slot and eats jedi for breakfast?

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

That's a really strange and meaningless artificial group...

No one flies Jarrus or Ezra and few fly Luke or Rey, so that leaves only the Jedi as the commonplace lightsiders around. There's a good amount of Vader, the Inquisition!!!!!!! (but was it unexpected?), Kylo, and Assaj with a few Infiltrators about, so I saved time by making the meaningless artificial group. I don't like groups with their identifiers as negations, so I used a non negatory identifier that at the time is relevant. If we see Luke again, we'll have to resort to non-Delta7 force users as the denoter.

2 hours ago, RStan said:

Tempt me into bringing an Intimidation A Wing? At the very least, I'm taking an I1 something for the purpose of countering the madness!

Even if blocked, he could blankout and heroic that roll into natties, and with no focus, the math says add the blank before heroic (as opposed to heroic and add focilud). So if I do everything right, there is the normal 2 agility possibility of 9/64 that he gets 2 evades, but then there remains the Heroic 9/64 that he gets a mulligan, but in Finn's case with an extra die. Disgusting!

Time to dig out those old ramblings of mine that warned of perceptive heroic Finn...

41 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Fair.

I might be an oddity in that when there were a couple of exceptions (Luke/Vader/Asajj) it didn't feel too bad. Yes, they were strong, some VERY strong (Kylo seems to apply) but it didn't feel too badly. Could be an illusion I haven't been able to see through yet.

Maybe it's the prevalence of force nowadays which feels bad. Prior to Republic, you'd run into a force user every once in a while. Now, it feels like the majority of lists I face have a force user. Jedi, Kylo, Vader with a sprinkling of Luke. On heavy rotation.

To be clear, I only posted on the topic because it was only recently that I've come around to believing it's a problem, and maybe that's because of the rotation of stuff I'm facing. I don't think the sky is falling, I just need to adjust.

25 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

Tempt me into bringing an Intimidation A Wing? At the very least, I'm taking an I1 something for the purpose of countering the madness!

Even if blocked, he could blankout and heroic that roll into natties, and with no focus, the math says add the blank before heroic (as opposed to heroic and add focilud). So if I do everything right, there is the normal 2 agility possibility of 9/64 that he gets 2 evades, but then there remains the Heroic 9/64 that he gets a mulligan, but in Finn's case with an extra die. Disgusting!

Time to dig out those old ramblings of mine that warned of perceptive heroic Finn...

I feel like Finn needs go up a few points but I'd also like to see his talent slot taken away thereby removing the Heroic shenanigans. It fits the lore too because he's not a pilot and therefore shouldn't have an elite pilot talent. I don't know if that's enough of a nerf but it's where I'd start.

22 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Maybe it's the prevalence of force nowadays which feels bad. Prior to Republic, you'd run into a force user every once in a while. Now, it feels like the majority of lists I face have a force user. Jedi, Kylo, Vader with a sprinkling of Luke. On heavy rotation.

To be clear, I only posted on the topic because it was only recently that I've come around to believing it's a problem, and maybe that's because of the rotation of stuff I'm facing. I don't think the sky is falling, I just need to adjust.

If you're right though, adjusting just means accepting that we're going back down the hole into 1.0 land, where everything is broken and stupid all of the time. I'm desperately hoping you're wrong!

35 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

If you're right though, adjusting just means accepting that we're going back down the hole into 1.0 land, where everything is broken and stupid all of the time. I'm desperately hoping you're wrong!

Don’t you mix your catastrophe with my resignment!

Adjusting, to me, means:

1) Join

2) Purposefully list build to counter

3) Develop strategic options to combat with whatever I want to play and accept results

I’ll do #3 at least until the November GC, then reevaluate afterwards.

4 hours ago, gennataos said:

I don't care about redesign sessions, but I have fully come around to force being a problem, as currently implemented.

Force should work only when focused, basically.

39 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Don’t you mix your catastrophe with my resignment!

Adjusting, to me, means:

1) Join

2) Purposefully list build to counter

3) Develop strategic options to combat with whatever I want to play and accept results

I’ll do #3 at least until the November GC, then reevaluate afterwards.

1. Ew
2. the game should be tactical not entirely list building strategies or you lose
3. better, except the accept I’m going to lose... oh wait, that’s what I’m doing too....

GC is four days and still no list selected. I’m sure it’s fine. My expectations are swarms, Imperials and Jedi.

5 hours ago, RStan said:

Speaking of BIG DEAL...it seems about every Hyperspace Trial this weekend has a Resistance list that has 43 pt Finn, three of those trials were completely won by those Resistance lists, two of them exact same as my Gencon list...

My biggest regret so far in 2.0 is that I was experimenting with that list archetype before it became the next hottest thing, and even placed fairly well in the Paris Hyperspace trial, and now I'll just be one of the copycats

The one original thought I had in my head and of course now I'll be labelled as a meta chasing degenerate

15 minutes ago, Flurpy said:

The one original thought I had in my head and of course now I'll be labelled as a meta chasing degenerate

If it makes you feel better, we would all forget you created it anyway.

I enjoyed the discussion in the latest cast about the games not finishing. Discussing through it and trying to find a reason why was refreshing. Much better than blaming the one constant between the editions (the players) without actually thinking about what may be causing it.

8 hours ago, LagJanson said:

I’m still not sold that the force alone is a problem.

Aetherprites come with built in card combos

Its funny to look back at how people were ******* and moaning about how underpowered/overcosted Jedi were when they dropped.

Lots of disbelief that FTC timing was a major benefit. Lots of hangups on the action econ because no focus+TL. Lots unwillingness to accept they were envelope pushing in-terms of manoeuvrability (e.g. dial-to-dial comparisons to RZ2 without taking into account no-stress/more flexible repo options)

1 hour ago, prauxim said:

Its funny to look back at how people were ******* and moaning about how underpowered/overcosted Jedi were when they dropped.

Lots of disbelief that FTC timing was a major benefit. Lots of hangups on the action econ because no focus+TL. Lots unwillingness to accept they were envelope pushing in-terms of manoeuvrability (e.g. dial-to-dial comparisons to RZ2 without taking into account no-stress/more flexible repo options)

To be fair, the common theme in most competitive Jedi lists is an Anakin with regen. Yes, other pieces are good, but aren't as strong on their own. Regen has always been problematic on higher Init/PS maneuverable ships, and I still think that’s the central issue here.

11 minutes ago, AlexW said:

To be fair, the common theme in most competitive Jedi lists is an Anakin with regen. Yes, other pieces are good, but aren't as strong on their own. Regen has always been problematic on higher PS maneuverable ships, and I still think that’s the central issue here.

Yeah, no disagreement R2 is the straw that makes the camels play experience negative, and I6 be like it be, but even ignoring that the chassis is still easily A-tier with the context of chassis comparisons (at least for 2-force Jedi anyway, if you are ok calling 2-force a chassis property, but I digress...) The most competitive all-Jedi list for Jan-July was trip I4s, Obi and even Plo are regularly top tabling now, and R2 is still optimal if he fits but empirically isn't a hard requirement.

TBF, sense is a key component if you're not running the upper echelon of Ini, but that probably says more about the state of mid-Ini repo tools than the sprite's chassis specifically.

Not sure if this is productive, but what options are there to fighting Jedi?

Bring debris seems like a good step one. Wide arcs, because a range three isn’t significantly a worse shot (I’m still waiting for blanks) and is much harder to arc dodge. Only go for blocks once they are low on resources and you have a good punch or two lined up.

In lists, tech in something that could limit a dial (stress or strain). Not too many choices here, chutes/spare parts, 4-Lom, Sidious, commander Cody, K2-B4? Most of those seem like building a list around it instead of tech. Are tractors any good here? No one has played any quadjumpers since the January point change, near as I can tell.

I’m pretty much willing to punt against swarms at this point, everyone just wants to fly aces and named rebel/resistance. I have one local flying six /sf to keep us a little honest, and I think I’m the only other one that has ventured past four ships.

15 minutes ago, AEIllingworth said:

Not sure if this is productive, but what options are there to fighting Jedi?

I find its mostly a constant effort to try and know if you will benefit from keeping pressure on the jedi you might have targeted first, identifying if you should have targeted that jedi first in the first place, and then deciding if you should switch to fighting the stuff you didnt target first thats probably flanking you which could be some support ships or other jedi. A couple pages back someone described this a little better.

19 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

You put it on Braylen to eat crits aimed at Dutch (also Braylen rerolls make him slightly harder to kill), Cassian pulls stress when needed, and Wedge is more Ace insurance that strictly Jedi insurance. If you are going to drop him, I guess question is, what are you subbing for 55 points? Norra? Thane? Biggs?

Why on earth are you protecting dutch though?

The points from wedge could be used to not take a basically naked y wing

11 hours ago, prauxim said:

Its funny to look back at how people were ******* and moaning about how underpowered/overcosted Jedi were when they dropped.

Lots of disbelief that FTC timing was a major benefit. Lots of hangups on the action econ because no focus+TL. Lots unwillingness to accept they were envelope pushing in-terms of manoeuvrability (e.g. dial-to-dial comparisons to RZ2 without taking into account no-stress/more flexible repo options)

Yeah, I remember the "purple boost is useless" type posts before release, and the "stat line sucks" comments. I was not among them, but I wasn't screaming OP either. I'd much rather see some history... I'm still not screaming nerf. I'm noting I've got some feels bad anecdotes, at best. Oh... listening to Krayts flags why this is likely a discussion...

The talk about games going to time got me thinking...what if I wasn't trying to achieve complete destruction? I know some lists are built specifically to try to win on time and some are specifically built for complete destruction. I'd wager a lot of lists are somewhere in between and those of us flying them aren't quite sure how we're supposed to be winning. I know I seldom approach early to mid game as "scoring points"...I'm aiming to remove ships. It's not until the end game that I usually bother to get a running tally of points scored. Maybe scoring points, like in a timed football game, is how I should be approaching things? Get a lead and protect it?

That doesn't necessarily mean score points and run. To me, it means score points then endeavor to never put your ships in a compromised position. Maybe that ends up the same as running and ends up no fun. I don't know. I just know most of my games go to time anyway, so why do I keep trying to figure out ways to kill opposing ships when, sometimes, I really don't have to?

Can someone explain what planet Lares666 and Dalli is on? Just seen it on list fortress, out of 144 people at the German Champs Comp they came top 4 and top 16th with:

Koshka Frost (70)
Crack Shot (1)
IG-88D (3)

4-LOM (49)
Crack Shot (1)
Contraband Cybernetics (3)

Latts Razzi (59)
Unkar Plutt (2)
0-0-0 (5)
Hound's Tooth (1)

Nashtah Pup (6)
Ship total: 6 Half Points: 3 Threshold: 2

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z106X116WWW36WWWWY109X116WWW92WWY154XWWW64W63WWWW150Y160XWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

I know I am definitly going to give it a go but what on earth am I missing here? How did they both do so well with it out of no where?