33 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I would disagree and consider stress, especially double stress, to be control. With double stress, while you are leaving them the option of which movement to take, you are fairly flatly stating that they will almost certainly not be getting an action this turn. Even with a single stress if they elect not to take a green that often typically leads them right down the road to double stress, assuming they don't just die from a lack of repositioning and/or tokens. There is a choice involved but in either case you're either several constraining their movement options or action options, that feels very control to me.

Maybe stress is a control element against Rebels and Imperials.
But Unhinged Astromech + K-4 Security Droid, Overclocked R4, R4 Aggromech, Attanni, and probably a bunch of other Scum stuff that I'm forgetting don't give a **** about your stress......

44 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Maybe stress is a control element against Rebels and Imperials.
But Unhinged Astromech + K-4 Security Droid, Overclocked R4, R4 Aggromech, Attanni, and probably a bunch of other Scum stuff that I'm forgetting don't give a **** about your stress......

That's like saying ion isn't control because I can equip an ion discharger or Biggs isn't control because of TL ordnance. Those are all just cards, unfortunately located entirely within one faction, that mitigate control but they don't change what it is.

1 hour ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Maybe stress is a control element against Rebels and Imperials.
But Unhinged Astromech + K-4 Security Droid, Overclocked R4, R4 Aggromech, Attanni, and probably a bunch of other Scum stuff that I'm forgetting don't give a **** about your stress ......

16 minutes ago, Makaze said:

That's like saying ion isn't control because I can equip an ion discharger or Biggs isn't control because of TL ordnance. Those are all just cards, unfortunately located entirely within one faction, that mitigate control but they don't change what it is .

READ IT AGAIN.
Never did I ever say that stress wasn't control, oh perceptive one.

8 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

READ IT AGAIN.
Never did I ever say that stress wasn't control, oh perceptive one.

I read it just fine the first time, thanks. You said stress is a control element against Reb and Imps, but not scum. Since my post was about whether stress was (in a generic sense) a control or tempo element, if it's not a control element then presumably you're implying it's a tempo element against scum? Or is that not actually what you meant and you just wrote something vague and tangential and then jump down my throat for giving it contextual meaning instead of reading your mind? Or did you just want to randomly interject for no particular reason about how SCUM OP!!!one! argle bargle! <foam at mouth>?

7 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I read it just fine the first time, thanks. You said stress is a control element against Reb and Imps, but not scum. Since my post was about whether stress was (in a generic sense) a control or tempo element, if it's not a control element then presumably you're implying it's a tempo element against scum? Or is that not actually what you meant and you just wrote something vague and tangential and then jump down my throat for giving it contextual meaning instead of reading your mind? Or did you just want to randomly interject for no particular reason about how SCUM OP!!!one! argle bargle! <foam at mouth>?

REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

as in AG----REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Scum oP-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

4 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I read it just fine the first time, thanks. You said stress is a control element against Reb and Imps, but not scum. Since my post was about whether stress was (in a generic sense) a control or tempo element, if it's not a control element then presumably you're implying it's a tempo element against scum? Or is that not actually what you meant and you just wrote something vague and tangential and then jump down my throat for giving it contextual meaning instead of reading your mind? Or did you just want to randomly interject for no particular reason about how SCUM OP!!!one! argle bargle! <foam at mouth>?

I'll take Tangential for 200.

Your response did less than address the notion that stress does not ( really ) apply to Scum AND that I never said stress was not control.
You mention double stress stopping actions and giving the stressed ship a limited number of actions to choose from. Sure, in the traditional sense - but not for the Scum upgrades I listed. An Attani/K-4/whatever ignores stress.

Not random. Not screaming OP - just taking your point and saying, "Hey - sure, but for a third of the game and half of the current meta, stress doesn't control tempo"

33 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

I'll take Tangential for 200.

Your response did less than address the notion that stress does not ( really ) apply to Scum AND that I never said stress was not control.
You mention double stress stopping actions and giving the stressed ship a limited number of actions to choose from. Sure, in the traditional sense - but not for the Scum upgrades I listed. An Attani/K-4/whatever ignores stress.

Not random. Not screaming OP - just taking your point and saying, "Hey - sure, but for a third of the game and half of the current meta, stress doesn't control tempo"

I'm touching the poo, here we go!

Stress still controls tempo, even against attanni and K4 and everything else you mentioned. With attanni the list is getting 2x-1 actions, where x is your number of ships. If one ship is stressed and doesn't clear, it becomes 2x-2. You still slowed them down by one action, even though attanni was way ahead on actions you have slowed it. You are conflating "not getting ahead" with "not slowing them down".

If they cleared it, you forced them into a green. Either way, you have gained (though possibly not passed, where against other lists you would have passed their economy).

38 minutes ago, AEIllingworth said:

I'm touching the poo, here we go!

Stress still controls tempo, even against attanni and K4 and everything else you mentioned. With attanni the list is getting 2x-1 actions, where x is your number of ships. If one ship is stressed and doesn't clear, it becomes 2x-2. You still slowed them down by one action, even though attanni was way ahead on actions you have slowed it. You are conflating "not getting ahead" with "not slowing them down".

If they cleared it, you forced them into a green. Either way, you have gained (though possibly not passed, where against other lists you would have passed their economy).

Yeah, agreed, which is why I say stress doesn't really touch Scum. The return of stressing Parattanni is low it's not a viable tactic. So go ahead, stress one ship. Double stress it. It will still get focus+target lock.

And nothing says that a piece can't be control AND tempo - if it slaps 2 stress on there, it can easily be both because it removes actions AND constrains their movements. R3-A2 by himself is just tempo, but with BTL-A4 it raises the bar. Chainer's Edict (MtG card) is both because it removes a creature AND can be cast twice, giving you +1 card.

@Rinzler in a Tie , only certain specific ships, and your histronics about it really aren't helping your point.

16 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

And nothing says that a piece can't be control AND tempo - if it slaps 2 stress on there, it can easily be both because it removes actions AND constrains their movements. R3-A2 by himself is just tempo, but with BTL-A4 it raises the bar. Chainer's Edict (MtG card) is both because it removes a creature AND can be cast twice, giving you +1 card.

@Rinzler in a Tie , only certain specific ships, and your histronics about it really aren't helping your point.

In a Krayt's topic you're going to call me out for being too harsh/dramatic?

ONLY certain ships?! Only the ships that ran the meta and won Worlds twice ? Only those ships that had, what, 12 of the top 16 at Worlds? You don't think people considered to bring stress to the most competitive event of the year? They did consider and then decided it wasn't worth it because it doesn't work.
If Scum cared about stress the meta just prior to FSR would have been much more balanced, instead of the actual result - pushing ace-wing out completely.

I get it - "fly casual" fanboys want this topic to discuss what theoretically should work to stop a list archetype that is being nerfed for the nth time - I disagree (and so do the developers) but don't want to get anyone too riled up so I'll leave you to it.

Heh, of COURSE the Jumpmaster is cancerous. It's too good. Frankly, its half-assed nerfs are a pretty clear sign that competitive balance isn't a high priority of the current X-Wing devs - what it needs is a reprinted card that adjusts its point cost upwards, removes the EPT from the generic and moves the Salvaged Astromech to the title. It's not as though they don't have a mechanism in place to do just that - I have a Poe Dameron and a Vader/Luke card that were distributed for free to all the stores. But it seems to be what they're refusing to do.

I mean, what I'd RATHER have is a bunch of reprinted cards of the older ships adjusting them to at least the same power level of the Wave 7+ stuff, but that's not going to happen.

14 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

In a Krayt's topic you're going to call me out for being too harsh/dramatic?

ONLY certain ships?! Only the ships that ran the meta and won Worlds? Only those ships that had, what, 12 of the top 16 at Worlds? You don't think people considered to bring stress to the most competitive event of the year? They did consider and then decided it wasn't worth it because it doesn't work.
If Scum cared about stress the meta just prior to FSR would have been much more balanced, instead of the actual result - pushing ace-wing out completely.

I get it - "fly casual" fanboys want this topic to discuss what theoretically should work to stop a list archetype that is being nerfed for the nth time - I disagree (and so do the developers) but don't want to get anyone too riled up so I'll leave you to it.

You're not wrong, it's just not really relevant. I think you're looking for the thread about whether or not stress is an effective control element against scum. As opposed to this thread which is very clearly about... um... yeah you know what nevermind, it's all good...

Hey guys, new to the forums and the podcast. I agree. Thnks.

Things I've learned from the Krayt's:

1: when trying to find the toilet in the middle of the night "helicoptering" is a valid option.

2: anger makes the Krayt's ***** get harder

3: they actually care about the game.

1 hour ago, Luuuke C said:

Hey guys, new to the forums and the podcast. I agree. Thnks.

Sounds legit.

1 hour ago, Wiredin said:

Things I've learned from the Krayt's:

1: when trying to find the toilet in the middle of the night "helicoptering" is a valid option.

2: anger makes the Krayt's ***** get harder

3: they actually care about the game.

Since this is post #1337 for me, I've been saving it for something really awesome.

So I've read your feedback, and I think its appropriate to quote The Black Mamba Kobe Bryant when i say

@catachanninja

250 pages to catch the gunboat thread.

4 hours ago, Wiredin said:

@catachanninja

I didn't know before, but I needed this in my life. Thank you.

On 8/7/2017 at 1:24 PM, Rinzler in a Tie said:

At least they're still talking about implementation/execution of current ships, even if the game is going south.

Others are literally quitting, which is sad to me because Mynock used to be my favorite before they started pandering and apologizing...
Dee - be unapologetic!

How have I pandered, and what did I apologize for?

15 minutes ago, Mynock Delta said:

How have I pandered, and what did I apologize for?

Normal people call it common decency. You need to be more edgy!

(please don't)

2 hours ago, Mynock Delta said:

How have I pandered, and what did I apologize for?

Is this the Dee? I'm star-struck.

Just stupid stuff, like you were "insensitive" to this person or that, or you were too harsh on Ryan (maybe once).

34 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

you were too harsh on Ryan (maybe once).

thats a stretch... who's going to keep Ryan in control now? I mean he swore *gasp* without Dee there. Mynocks will turn into Kryats Squadron soon enough without the voice of reason there to keep Ryan in check.

1 hour ago, Wiredin said:

thats a stretch... who's going to keep Ryan in control now? I mean he swore *gasp* without Dee there. Mynocks will turn into Kryats Squadron soon enough without the voice of reason there to keep Ryan in check.

I just want to go on record that the Mynocks, Dee especially, are my go-to podcast and I wish them a speedy recovery.
Just so no one thinks I was sassing or pontificating about "pandering" or whatnot...

1 hour ago, Wiredin said:

thats a stretch... who's going to keep Ryan in control now? I mean he swore *gasp* without Dee there. Mynocks will turn into Kryats Squadron soon enough without the voice of reason there to keep Ryan in check.