42 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

in 1.0 i strongly believed that you probably needed to focus your guns on the regen target while you still had them on the table, especially if you don't have a more expensive endgame piece or something that lets you deal damage unconventionally, I probably have more games against regen corran than anyone on the planet (thanks nathan). in 2.0 regen is mercifully toned down, but force users are still incentived to dip out and recoup, even if it's not as belligerant. I don't have a solid strategy for 2e, but i know there are some 1e lessons that have changed. I will take shots of opportunity at regen ships in 2e. If i've got exactly one range 1 shot on a regenner, i'll take it, as where in 1.0 shooting a full heath corran or poe with just 1 ship was probably a waste of my time if i didn't think i could follow it up the next turn or two, or if the noble and fair r3a2 wasn't involved. I think the biggest thing that has to be taken account with the regen ships, is understand where their half point thresholds really are, and don't count on them as points you have until they can't regen above half. I'm sure i'll end up getting more games in against regen in the near future, since i seem to be motivated to play again. I'll try to note anything else i find that works

note this comes mostly from playing swarmy type lists

if it's the 2x2, nuke the support ships as fast as possible, hope you have enough ships left to bully the aces in the end game.

against the aces, being flexible with target priority has helped. You can't over commit to one, since they bug out so easily, always be thinking about when and where to turn into a flanking ace to keep them honest. I've kinda of just accepted that all my piddling 2 die shots aren't likely to 1 round a regen ship, so they'll get the regen, its just getting enough points early and keeping pressure so they can't come back.

3 minutes ago, jagsba said:

note this comes mostly from playing swarmy type lists

if it's the 2x2, nuke the support ships as fast as possible, hope you have enough ships left to bully the aces in the end game.

against the aces, being flexible with target priority has helped. You can't over commit to one, since they bug out so easily, always be thinking about when and where to turn into a flanking ace to keep them honest. I've kinda of just accepted that all my piddling 2 die shots aren't likely to 1 round a regen ship, so they'll get the regen, its just getting enough points early and keeping pressure so they can't come back.

2x2?

Just now, catachanninja said:

2x2?

two aces and two dinky ships exemplified by the double jedi double torrent list, but empire and scum can easily build variations as well.

1 minute ago, jagsba said:

two aces and two dinky ships exemplified by the double jedi double torrent list, but empire and scum can easily build variations as well.

i guessed that but wasn't sure. Thanks amigo!

2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Im sorta less interested in specific list building counters ( easy part ) and more interested in game strategy to make regen ace matchups slightly better. I like to start there and build my lists for field matchups after sorting that out.

no, only direct counters.

Everyone knows there are only regen jedi to contend with.

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

As these new things become more prevalent, then that reputation will dissipate some. I don't think it's undeserved, though. "I'm gunna spend this calculate over here from this ship who may or may not have already shot, and these three are going to keep theirs for next round, and...hold up!...someone died or took damage, so I'm going to do this thing". It feels like the robot version of the Scum faction, only with swarms.

We're all richer for it. Kind of. Next time, I don't care whose stuff you're using, we're using your dice.

I play CIS swarms a lot and I have been using weapons disabled tokens to show which ships have already fired. It helps both players keep track of what is happening. I will also sometimes put the ESC charge next to the ship so my opponent knows who still has them and who doesn’t but that is a lot of additional tokens to move every turn.

1 hour ago, catachanninja said:

welcome to the electro casino baby

Well, electro proton bombs always have favored CIS and Empire given their shield less bombers. But it is a casino nonetheless with ion and weapons disabled.

21 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

no, only direct counters.

Everyone knows there are only regen jedi to contend with.

I feel personally attacked. Just let me kill the part of the game I hate the most in peace!

5 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

@Polda though to be fair, I never cared about the CIS intrinsically. I was so much more excited for Clones and Jedi. I just prefer some janky mechanics to pure Beef or Aceplay 😜

Yeah I just like the ships...

...and being the only guy who brings them to play on X-Wing nights. Aren't I a special boy!?

3 hours ago, catachanninja said:

I think the biggest thing that has to be taken account with the regen ships, is understand where their half point thresholds really are, and don't count on them as points you have until they can't regen above half.

This seems important.

At the very least, it makes it feel less bad.

Ok, that's half on Ani.

No it is not, you sneaky tease.

4 hours ago, Brunas said:

I feel personally attacked. Just let me kill the part of the game I hate the most in peace!

Hey, remember 9pt Proton Torps?

Ahhh.... Those were the days.

45 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Hey, remember 9pt Proton Torps?

Ahhh.... Those were the days.

Can we make proton torps initiative based? 9 points for a ps 1-2, 15 for and Ps- 6....

3 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Can we make proton torps initiative based? 9 points for a ps 1-2, 15 for and Ps- 6....

So, 12 point Passive PT's?

I'm super out.

Just now, impspy said:

So, 12 point Passive PT's?

I'm super out.

On which ship(s) exactly?

2 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

On which ship(s) exactly?

N1, Starwing, Punisher, Hyena, B-wing, E-wing (technically), VCX.

12-14 points based on proposed initiative pricing.

On 8/5/2019 at 11:22 PM, GreenDragoon said:

Soooooo, about that and Gencon...

Today in comments that haven’t aged well...

13 hours ago, skotothalamos said:

Today in comments that haven’t aged well...

It hasn't aged poorly enough though! Especially the bottom 30% or so of each day.

14 hours ago, impspy said:

N1, Starwing, Punisher, Hyena, B-wing, E-wing (technically), VCX.

12-14 points based on proposed initiative pricing.

There is zero risk of a Hyena using Passive Sensors. Dorks are 5pts and give your whole squad locks. Starwing and Punisher (and bomber) can also infinite range lock with Jendon which is just better than passives. Of course, E-Wing, also infinite range lock.

Considering you can already get 5 Hyenas with a Dork and Protorps at current pricing for double modded quint torp alpha, I really have a hard time caring about passive sensors.

15 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

There is zero risk of a Hyena using Passive Sensors. Dorks are 5pts and give your whole squad locks. Starwing and Punisher (and bomber) can also infinite range lock with Jendon which is just better than passives. Of course, E-Wing, also infinite range lock.

Considering you can already get 5 Hyenas with a Dork and Protorps at current pricing for double modded quint torp alpha, I really have a hard time caring about passive sensors.

Your examples only reinforce my core complaint with lowering the price of ordnance: we already have a way to spam effective torp shots. Making it cheaper not only means that those lists can become more point efficient, but also that if you just wanna put 1-2 PS torp carriers to round out a list that you can do it for less than the cost of a PT now.

14 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Can we make proton torps initiative based? 9 points for a ps 1-2, 15 for and Ps- 6....

this, but 13pts at i1-2 and just gets more expensive as it goes up.

price them at 10 points, add 1 for each initiative point, add 4 if the ship has reload

8 minutes ago, Maui. said:

price them at 10 points, add 1 for each initiative point, add 4 if the ship has reload

#simple

6 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

#simple

i forgot to mention, add 5 for each enemy ship with 2 or fewer shields, but subtract 5 for each enemy ship beyond 5, but only if all 5 have the same initiative.

also they're 3 points on the second tuesday of every month

4 hours ago, impspy said:

Your examples only reinforce my core complaint with lowering the price of ordnance: we already have a way to spam effective torp shots. Making it cheaper not only means that those lists can become more point efficient, but also that if you just wanna put 1-2 PS torp carriers to round out a list that you can do it for less than the cost of a PT now.

I was more pointing out that, even with Proton Torps being costed so high they're basically useless to most ships, they're still abusable by specific builds. It highlights the core problem with a flat price because some platforms will just get far more out of them. How do you appropriately cost any ordinance when a 26pt Hyena that can easily fire it with a calculate + lock is available? Anything costed correctly for that cheap and efficient ship is going to beyond useless to everyone else. ****, I run Hyena's and I still don't consider Protorps to be that viable for their cost.

The problem isn't initiative, it's effectiveness. And while initiative is a component of that, it's hard to cost based around availability of modifications and spammability of platforms which are just as big of a factor, if not more.

30 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

I was more pointing out that, even with Proton Torps being costed so high they're basically useless to most ships, they're still abusable by specific builds. It highlights the core problem with a flat price because some platforms will just get far more out of them. How do you appropriately cost any ordinance when a 26pt Hyena that can easily fire it with a calculate + lock is available? Anything costed correctly for that cheap and efficient ship is going to beyond useless to everyone else. ****, I run Hyena's and I still don't consider Protorps to be that viable for their cost.

The problem isn't initiative, it's effectiveness. And while initiative is a component of that, it's hard to cost based around availability of modifications and spammability of platforms which are just as big of a factor, if not more.

This is every upgrade, and moreover, the fact that every upgrade is more or less efficient on certain pilots is sort of the point.