28 minutes ago, Brunas said:

For Day1A people, make sure and add your opponents if you remember their lists! You can cheat on their names - if you go down to "rounds", you can click the round number and get the matchups for that round to see what their name was if you're a terrible person with a terrible memory like me.

Other people have names?

2 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

Everything we've seen so far from CIS indicates that is the faction identity, a miasma of text walls, convoluted upgrades, weird interactions, etc. things that were always going to have a high skill floor regardless, but that can also have a high skill ceiling inviting stronger players to show of their knowledge of the game and mechanical skill

You make me feel a lot better about myself than Polda, here... 😅

2 hours ago, Polda said:

CIS were designed to appeal to the people who like the baddies in Clone Wars not some alpha player with skill coming out of his ears 

@Polda though to be fair, I never cared about the CIS intrinsically. I was so much more excited for Clones and Jedi. I just prefer some janky mechanics to pure Beef or Aceplay 😜

Is there a general strategy that Regen Aces are vulnerable to?

Options

• Target the Regen Ace early to force them to burn charges and disengage?
  • Go all in at the Endgame piece and sort the rest out later.
  • Depends on how aggressive they are with the Ace and if they allow this
  • Do you attempt to punish the Regen Flank like you would regular Flanky Aces?
  • Switch to the rest of their list if chasing the Regen Ace allows the rest of the list to mostly flank you.
  • Continue Chasing the Ace if you "know" you can get it.
  • Risky in that you might end up running out of time having split fire and exposed a flank.
• Target the Not-Regen part of their list early
  • Likely have to switch to this anyway, might as well start there?
  • Make sure you have enough pieces left over for a 1v1 or 2v1 against the Regen Ace.
  • Risky because it very likely gives the Regen Ace freedom to flank
  • Can you attack the not regen part of the list while leaving options open to turn in at or threaten the flanker? Tricky.
• Regen is just HP that sorta requires a disengage
  • Treat it like any other game against decent mobile Ace lists I guess

30 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Is there a general strategy that Regen Aces are vulnerable to?

Options

• Target the Regen Ace early to force them to burn charges and disengage?
  • Go all in at the Endgame piece and sort the rest out later.
  • Depends on how aggressive they are with the Ace and if they allow this
  • Do you attempt to punish the Regen Flank like you would regular Flanky Aces?
  • Switch to the rest of their list if chasing the Regen Ace allows the rest of the list to mostly flank you.
  • Continue Chasing the Ace if you "know" you can get it.
  • Risky in that you might end up running out of time having split fire and exposed a flank.
• Target the Not-Regen part of their list early
  • Likely have to switch to this anyway, might as well start there?
  • Make sure you have enough pieces left over for a 1v1 or 2v1 against the Regen Ace.
  • Risky because it very likely gives the Regen Ace freedom to flank
  • Can you attack the not regen part of the list while leaving options open to turn in at or threaten the flanker? Tricky.
• Regen is just HP that sorta requires a disengage
  • Treat it like any other game against decent mobile Ace lists I guess

bring more ships?

10 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

bring more ships?

So option 3. Reasonable.

51 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Regen is just HP that sorta requires a disengage

• Treat it like any other game against decent mobile Ace lists I guess

Is it just a mental thing? That there is a possibility that the extra hp fails and we see that fail as the default?

Well, Boba and Emon with bombs galore seemed to sort them out pretty well.

Diverted the Torrents with bombs and obstacles and gangbanged Obi and then Ani. Occasional potshots and moar bombs were enough to beat up the Torrents as they tried to recover their position. Killed 1 and a half as an ongoing side project, rather than through any actual effort.

Basically, I never gave the Jedi anywhere to run where I couldn't shoot at them.

Many firing arcs helps A LOT. Main thing is not pointing them all at the same spot. Because that spot is where the Jedi won't be.

Soooo, ignore the chaff? Cover Jedi escape routes? Continually shoot the bastards?

Use Boba and Emon with all the bombs?

53 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Is there a general strategy that Regen Aces are vulnerable to?

Options

• Target the Regen Ace early to force them to burn charges and disengage?
  • Go all in at the Endgame piece and sort the rest out later.
  • Depends on how aggressive they are with the Ace and if they allow this
  • Do you attempt to punish the Regen Flank like you would regular Flanky Aces?
  • Switch to the rest of their list if chasing the Regen Ace allows the rest of the list to mostly flank you.
  • Continue Chasing the Ace if you "know" you can get it.
  • Risky in that you might end up running out of time having split fire and exposed a flank.
• Target the Not-Regen part of their list early
  • Likely have to switch to this anyway, might as well start there?
  • Make sure you have enough pieces left over for a 1v1 or 2v1 against the Regen Ace.
  • Risky because it very likely gives the Regen Ace freedom to flank
  • Can you attack the not regen part of the list while leaving options open to turn in at or threaten the flanker? Tricky.
• Regen is just HP that sorta requires a disengage
  • Treat it like any other game against decent mobile Ace lists I guess

I played against two in a row during an Hyperspace Qualifier.
My general strategy was to force them along a board edge or a corner and nuke them out of existence with all my ships in one turn. They can't regen if they are dead I guess.

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Is there a general strategy that Regen Aces are vulnerable to?

Options

• Target the Regen Ace early to force them to burn charges and disengage?
  • Go all in at the Endgame piece and sort the rest out later. 
  • Depends on how aggressive they are with the Ace and if they allow this
  • Do you attempt to punish the Regen Flank like you would regular Flanky Aces? 
  • Switch to the rest of their list if chasing the Regen Ace allows the rest of the list to mostly flank you. 
  • Continue Chasing the Ace if you "know" you can get it.
  • Risky in that you might end up running out of time having split fire and exposed a flank.
• Target the Not-Regen part of their list early
  • Likely have to switch to this anyway, might as well start there?
  • Make sure you have enough pieces left over for a 1v1 or 2v1 against the Regen Ace.
  • Risky because it very likely gives the Regen Ace freedom to flank
  •  Can you attack the not regen part of the list while leaving options open to turn in at or threaten the flanker? Tricky.
• Regen is just HP that sorta requires a disengage
  • Treat it like any other game against decent mobile Ace lists I guess

Feint the attack on the flanking regen ace before crashing on the rest of their list works best, imo.

Feinting should keep the regen ace out of the fight an additional turn or 2. Because why would they turn their end game piece into your list?*

20 minutes ago, Ximatique said:

I played against two in a row during an Hyperspace Qualifier.
My general strategy was to force them along a board edge or a corner and nuke them out of existence with all my ships in one turn. They can't regen if they are dead I guess.

Rekt

20 minutes ago, Ximatique said:

I played against two in a row during an Hyperspace Qualifier.
My general strategy was to force them along a board edge or a corner and nuke them out of existence with all my ships in one turn. They can't regen if they are dead I guess.

Having their end game ship yolo joust your swarm is also an effective strategy.

4 hours ago, Polda said:

Wins Le Mans in 1966.

Hey dont forget 67 68 and 69! I actually got to see one of the gts when i was in france in 2017

That said, i've seen either lego sets or hotwheels toys (can't remember which) for the tie striker thing, so that would probably be my second guess

I know the answer isn’t electro proton bombs, but I do want to see them on the table at some point. (Just once, though)

@Boom Owl Plasma Wedge, Sense Luke, Jake, and Intimidation Phoenix come to 200, and the list has been super effective against Republic regen lists for me. The problem is that it's completely incompetent against TIE swarms and only 50/50 against droid swarms.

It's still funny to see a blocked Anakin die on the 2nd shot sent his way. Hypothetically, Wedge can insta-kill a CLT jedi if all 3 dice come to hits and the Jedi rolls a blank, but R2A6 means that it's going to be harder to block. Besides, nuking the regen first is more important. If it gets away (as some 7B's have), the condition of the 2nd plasma even hitting undoes the regen, letting the uncanceled dice push the damage further. Reload for Wedge when?

The blocker A tends to have a problem blocking again until the endgame given the positioning needed for highest trade efficiency (Wedge at R3, Luke at R2). Against aces, that's not a problem, but with 2 ARCs, it can and has been diced before it can block again. Luke's efficiency pulls it out against 2ARC 2I5 (even with Jake and R3, too many reds for Wedge to sustain), but I don't think it's necessarily a positive matchup. Could have just gotten lucky by variance/opponent mistakes.

Im sorta less interested in specific list building counters ( easy part ) and more interested in game strategy to make regen ace matchups slightly better. I like to start there and build my lists for field matchups after sorting that out.

5 hours ago, svelok said:

sure, but that stuff isn't all that complex or verbose - when people complain about CIS lists with essays worth of text, its because of struts and remotes

(also, for comparison... x-wings have linked actions and a flippable config, han breaks so many rules he's needed like 17 FAQs, and for the last like 4 months the meta has been defined by a rebel pilot who intentionally fails barrel rolls for stress...)

To be clear on why I felt the way I did from my GenCon post, specifically:

• I've played against vulture swarms, vulture swarm + infiltrator, vulture swarm + Grievous, etc.
  • Previously, struts were priced out of general usage, never faced them
  • Some of the Infilitrator stuff was straight combo-wing "gotcha" type gameplay. Works great if your opponent doesn't know what's happening. Less so the second time around.
• It's round 5, just came off a close game for my first loss of the day, which went to time. Being up against the wall in essentially an elimination game might have impacted my patience, but I wasn't in a bad mood at all. The atmosphere there was fantastic.
  • I faced the (eventual) top 16 CIS swarm, Richard Hines.
  • Richard is a great guy, offered to explain everything to me. Super friendly and congenial game.
  • Time started super early. We're at least 7+ minutes into the round before all setup happens and we're on the first planning phase.
    • I ran 5A. I need a lot of time to wage my war of attrition. I knew I was already losing.
  • I'd never faced struts, DBM, or hyenas. Landing struts and grappling struts inexplicably do the same thing, but are named different. Richard tells me how he can jump from one rock to another and it's fine, how the Bactoid works, how DBM works, etc. My eyes are glazing over, we need to start playing.
    • I'm already behind the 8-ball. I just have to believe him, I don't have time to read these cards from myself.
  • Every engagement phase, I have to keep track of each charge used and shot fired by his squad, or just believe him. There wasn't a reason to not believe him, but when 7 different ships are doing things in an order which bounces all around the mat, most/all using charges of some sort, it becomes very taxing.

So, ultimately (obviously), lost the game which is was tight until the end when I'd kind of just threw my ships at him to kill stuff, which decided not to die. I lost because:

• I didn't know what the opposing squad was capable of
• I failed to identify my win condition during setup
• I realized too late in the opening rounds what he was doing, which left a huge opening for me to exploit, but it was too late
• When I did have the lead, I failed to accept that as my win condition and force him to come to me

I didn't find it fun to play against, because:

• There's a lot of onus placed on me, as it's opponent, to learn and keep track of in a specific box of time.

It wasn't an NPE by any stretch...just kind of a yawner. If I faced it again 10 times with 5A, now that I know what all of it does, I think I'd win at least 8 of them.

18 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Im sorta less interested in specific list building counters ( easy part ) and more interested in game strategy to make regen ace matchups slightly better. I like to start there and build my lists for field matchups after sorting that out.

You play x-wing for strategy, instead of architecture?!?

44 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I know the answer isn’t electro proton bombs, but I do want to see them on the table at some point. (Just once, though)

Someone used them at local league a couple of weeks ago, and both players opined that EPB is "OP."

I am dubious, but I haven't flown with or agin 'em, so beats me.

24 minutes ago, gennataos said:

• • Every engagement phase, I have to keep track of each charge used and shot fired by his squad, or just believe him. There wasn't a reason to not believe him, but when 7 different ships are doing things in an order which bounces all around the mat, most/all using charges of some sort, it becomes very taxing.

I actually played against 4 arcs, 3 of which had 7th fleet gunner and felt similar. Again opponent was a quality human being and i had no reason not to trust him, but its pretty important that i not let kylo take 4 die shots either!

I actually bemoaned before the tournament that i dreaded "the spreadsheet minigame" that's part of x wing now. Since everything has half points and nothings printed and 200 is a much larger number than 100, game state can be really fuzzy at important times, add in all manner of charges, most of which are represented off the board, and you have a lot of accounting work as part of an x wing game

17 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I'd never faced struts, DBM, or hyenas. Landing struts and grappling struts inexplicably do the same thing, but are named different. Richard tells me how he can jump from one rock to another and it's fine, how the Bactoid works, how DBM works, etc. My eyes are glazing over, we need to start playing.

• I'm already behind the 8-ball. I just have to believe him, I don't have time to read these cards from myself.

This is three discrete abilities, though. And there's only like three more in the squad total, and one of them is just Plasma torps, and another is just the ESC you've played against before.

It wouldn't be any different from having to learn how Fine Tuned works, learning how Cova/Leia's dial reference works, getting it explained that Anakin can dump stress from a k-turn then still FTC roll, or how Nien with Pattern and Black One works, etc. Just that stuff is way more common, so it's old hat.

Like, Richard's squad was:

• 6 generics, 1 unique
• the same one upgrade (struts) 6 times, another one upgrade (ESC) 5 times
• 3 additional upgrades (DRK1, plasmas, DBM), two of which are non-faction locked

I get tracking ESC can be a pain (for both players! I've made the extremely valuable investment of like $5 into like 10,000 colored dot stickers to put on my ships for both players sanity). So I'm totally sympathetic there, especially in the context of an extra length marathon 7 rounds (while flying a non-formation 5-ship list yourself!) My only (original) point is that CIS has a kind of weird, undeserved reputation for verbose, complex abilities - really, there's just like, 3 of those in the faction.

37 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Im sorta less interested in specific list building counters ( easy part ) and more interested in game strategy to make regen ace matchups slightly better. I like to start there and build my lists for field matchups after sorting that out.

in 1.0 i strongly believed that you probably needed to focus your guns on the regen target while you still had them on the table, especially if you don't have a more expensive endgame piece or something that lets you deal damage unconventionally, I probably have more games against regen corran than anyone on the planet (thanks nathan). in 2.0 regen is mercifully toned down, but force users are still incentived to dip out and recoup, even if it's not as belligerant. I don't have a solid strategy for 2e, but i know there are some 1e lessons that have changed. I will take shots of opportunity at regen ships in 2e. If i've got exactly one range 1 shot on a regenner, i'll take it, as where in 1.0 shooting a full heath corran or poe with just 1 ship was probably a waste of my time if i didn't think i could follow it up the next turn or two, or if the noble and fair r3a2 wasn't involved. I think the biggest thing that has to be taken account with the regen ships, is understand where their half point thresholds really are, and don't count on them as points you have until they can't regen above half. I'm sure i'll end up getting more games in against regen in the near future, since i seem to be motivated to play again. I'll try to note anything else i find that works

18 minutes ago, svelok said:

This is three discrete abilities, though. And there's only like three more in the squad total, and one of them is just Plasma torps, and another is just the ESC you've played against before.

It wouldn't be any different from having to learn how Fine Tuned works, learning how Cova/Leia's dial reference works, getting it explained that Anakin can dump stress from a k-turn then still FTC roll, or how Nien with Pattern and Black One works, etc. Just that stuff is way more common, so it's old hat.

Like, Richard's squad was:

• 6 generics, 1 unique
• the same one upgrade (struts) 6 times, another one upgrade (ESC) 5 times
• 3 additional upgrades (DRK1, plasmas, DBM), two of which are non-faction locked

I get tracking ESC can be a pain (for both players! I've made the extremely valuable investment of like $5 into like 10,000 colored dot stickers to put on my ships for both players sanity). So I'm totally sympathetic there, especially in the context of an extra length marathon 7 rounds (while flying a non-formation 5-ship list yourself!) My only (original) point is that CIS has a kind of weird, undeserved reputation for verbose, complex abilities - really, there's just like, 3 of those in the faction.

As these new things become more prevalent, then that reputation will dissipate some. I don't think it's undeserved, though. "I'm gunna spend this calculate over here from this ship who may or may not have already shot, and these three are going to keep theirs for next round, and...hold up!...someone died or took damage, so I'm going to do this thing". It feels like the robot version of the Scum faction, only with swarms.

19 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

since i seem to be motivated to play again

We're all richer for it. Kind of. Next time, I don't care whose stuff you're using, we're using your dice.

1 hour ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I know the answer isn’t electro proton bombs, but I do want to see them on the table at some point. (Just once, though)

Played vs Electro Proton Bombs once. In a local tournament.

Damage:

Wedge: ioned, and weapons disabled when he had a torp locked and loaded.

Thane: lost a shield, ioned beautifully to get wrecked next turn.

My ships: no damage.

My curiosity has been satisfied.

20 minutes ago, Darth Seridur said:

Played vs Electro Proton Bombs once. In a local tournament.

Damage:

Wedge: ioned, and weapons disabled when he had a torp locked and loaded.

Thane: lost a shield, ioned beautifully to get wrecked next turn.

My ships: no damage.

My curiosity has been satisfied.

welcome to the electro casino baby