5 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Hrm.

I think @RStan is right that it looks like it'd be nice on missile SFs with Passive Sensors, at the right price. Passive and Shoot 1st round, 2nd round you can focus for double mods. Maybe that's another missile, maybe it's just a Range 1, but it seems like a nice follow-through. On the other hand, once a TIE/sf is more expensive than simply taking Special Forces Gunner, seems like... maybe just take SFG?

On something like a TIE Bomber, the option it opens up is to dial in that lovely 5K, so you can keep your Torps or Missiles on someone the next round.

So it's a worse 1e FCS since it only works with Lock-based attacks. Is it really going to be more than 4 points--the translated point cost from first edition? But even at 4... is that really worth? I don't know whether I'd spend 44 points for a Passive/Concussion/WSO Zeta. I don't know whether I'd spend 37 for a TIE Bomber with WSO/Conc.

What is the price point where this actually sees play?

I mean, lock-based ordinance has to see play on chasis that can take a gunner first...*looks around*...so until then, this is unlikely to see play

5 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

I mean, lock-based ordinance has to see play on chasis that can take a gunner first...*looks around*...so until then, this is unlikely to see play

I was idly musing how it might synergize with Sync Console on Republic lists. Does the timing work out so you could spend your lock for mods, get another from WSO, and spend that to pass one? I'm still shaky on my action queue fu.

Just now, MasterShake2 said:

I mean, lock-based ordinance has to see play on chasis that can take a gunner first...*looks around*...so until then, this is unlikely to see play

I keep forgetting that playable has two definitions.

But yeah... ship selection is thin. The only semi-plausible options are Dengar (Scum-Han? I keep thinking Missile Han might not be terrible...), TIE Bomber, Punisher, SF, Y-Wing (particularly Republic). K-Wings, ARCs, and the various large-base Ys and Vs don't seem like they'd be too into it.

1 minute ago, Spinland said:

I was idly musing how it might synergize with Sync Console on Republic lists. Does the timing work out so you could spend your lock for mods, get another from WSO, and spend that to pass one? I'm still shaky on my action queue fu.

My first impression is that you could. Only seems relevant on the Y-Wing since LAAT can reroll without a Lock and thus save points for like Wolfpack and an ARC is too expensive with ordnance.

WSO has that problem where, once you reach a certain number of copies in your list, the likelihood of needing, or retaining, all your munition arcs on that target becomes super slim.

Maybe 2 SF or 3 Bombers could make a reasonable chonk element in a squad.

I can't look past a slim number of named pilots atm. Those very same pilots may make it unreasonable for multiple generics, because 4pt seems pretty good for them.

37 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I keep forgetting that playable has two definitions.

But yeah... ship selection is thin. The only semi-plausible options are Dengar (Scum-Han? I keep thinking Missile Han might not be terrible...), TIE Bomber, Punisher, SF, Y-Wing (particularly Republic). K-Wings, ARCs, and the various large-base Ys and Vs don't seem like they'd be too into it.

My first impression is that you could. Only seems relevant on the Y-Wing since LAAT can reroll without a Lock and thus save points for like Wolfpack and an ARC is too expensive with ordnance.

The problem is that low I generics, i.e. the things you usually spam struggle to get the intial lock and shot on target. Like, if you're consistently firing proton torps from multiple I2 or I1 ships at things...why do you need this upgrade? It looks way more like an ace tool than a generic tool outside of some weird corner cases.

-

That won't stop me from messing around with some plasma torp Grey Bombers with it, but, much like passive sensors, I don't see this making generic ordinance users any better.

For WSO, my question is: how often are you going to be able to get it to trigger and benefit the game? FCS as it exists now is a hard sell for me at 2 points and this is a much more restrictive version of the same idea but with a slightly better effect. Most ordnance carriers only get 1-2 uses out of their special weapons per game. I think something like 1-2 points is the correct price for this, but I really doubt that's where it's going to land.

21 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

*reads Backwards Tailslide*

"Everything is coming up Kulbee Speardo!"

Admit it, you forgot this pilot existed

I've always wanted to play Kulbee Sperado, but he always has ben a couple points more than the spot he would fit in my list until the most recent points change, and then, y'know, Covid.

4 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

For WSO, my question is: how often are you going to be able to get it to trigger and benefit the game? FCS as it exists now is a hard sell for me at 2 points and this is a much more restrictive version of the same idea but with a slightly better effect. Most ordnance carriers only get 1-2 uses out of their special weapons per game. I think something like 1-2 points is the correct price for this, but I really doubt that's where it's going to land.

It's the usual Xwing pointing conundrum, it has to be costed for lists that can leverage WSO most effectively: synched console, Jendon lists, Redline, Probe Droids, and so on. I suspect 3-4 points? Oooh for a minute I thought Shara Bey will like this but her ability is primary only...

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

(Scum-Han? I keep thinking Missile Han might not be terrible...),

Same.

Taking the munition shot, then getting a lock for when you boost into a side arc obstructed shot sounds like it is maybe not terrible.

59 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Same.

Taking the munition shot, then getting a lock for when you boost into a side arc obstructed shot sounds like it is maybe not terrible.

Nah, maneuver into the side arc obstructed shot, and take focus for double mods. Something Han has trouble getting without bringing along Lando escape craft.

1 hour ago, Cerebrawl said:

Nah, maneuver into the side arc obstructed shot, and take focus for double mods. Something Han has trouble getting without bringing along Lando escape craft.

Well, ideal scenario ofc. But one of his problems can be getting any mods on his best shot. Simple manoeuvring can be a fairly basic thing to counter. The I6 large base boost is quite a key thing to have open in your planning and often crucial. If they pull up short, your manoeuvre is good, if not....

One of the reasons I'd like Maul to remain in HS....

Gimme that Scum BS

51 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

One of the reasons I'd like Maul to remain in HS....

Maul should remain in HS. He is an interesting character who interacts with cybernetics in a neat way (Thematic!) who's only sin is that he is good on a broken character, and it isn't even like he is the reason that character is so good.

If you can't points fortress Maul, he kinda isn't super amazing. Probably one of the low key healthier 'Gimmie a force point' upgrade cards.

On 10/30/2020 at 12:56 PM, MasterShake2 said:

*reads Backwards Tailslide*

"Everything is coming up Kulbee Speardo!"

Admit it, you forgot this pilot existed

For me, the biggest issue with taking Kulbee is that Thane exists. For 2 points, you get I5 (which is pretty big) and an ability that I would say is similarly situational, except you don't really have to put as much work into using it-sometimes Thane just flips a card, while Kulbee really has to actively play around flipping his foils.

Galaxies, excluding mustafar, pilots the most common within their faction:

Zizi: in 78% of Resistance lists
Rey: 59%
i4 Nantex: 58%
Tallie: 48%
kyloren: 47%

Just mustafar (small sample sizes):

Boba: 73%
Zizi: 64%
Obi-wan: 53%
Vader: 50%
Luke: 42%

3 hours ago, svelok said:

Galaxies, excluding mustafar, pilots the most common within their faction:

Zizi: in 78% of Resistance lists
Rey: 59%
i4 Nantex: 58%
Tallie: 48%
kyloren: 47%

Just mustafar (small sample sizes):

Boba: 73%
Zizi: 64%
Obi-wan: 53%
Vader: 50%
Luke: 42%

Wow, Rey is seeing play? Since when? What changed?

14 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

Wow, Rey is seeing play? Since when? What changed?

I think Rey has been showing up pretty regularly when extended gets played? I don’t think anything significant has changed for the ship outside of not really having hyperspace events.

41 minutes ago, AEIllingworth said:

I think Rey has been showing up pretty regularly when extended gets played? I don’t think anything significant has changed for the ship outside of not really having hyperspace events.

Nantexes got all the attention, but last points update was pretty generous to Rey

The number one list on metawing all last month that wasn't one of the like... 4 Nantex variations was R-AA-Y. So it was relatively mainstream, she just wasn't a 'meta villain' list from my understanding: a list not specifically targeting her could beat her through good play, she was just plain darn strong.

nvm

8 hours ago, KCDodger said:

Wow, Rey is seeing play? Since when? What changed?

there might be some sort of weird thing going on where rey was specifically good vs nantex and won't be as good anymore (though I doubt that theory a bit), but rey has been one of the top performing pilots of the season by a very large margin (if nantex were in an S+ tier, rey would be in S tier, in terms of raw performance) and is one of the most common pilots in the meta overall

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rey has always been bloody good? Access to passive double mods, goes where she wants....

The advent of Zizi and the addition of Prockets on 2 survivable zippy I5 buggers has given her the mobile, punchy wingmates that she's always kinda needed to mitigate the speed at which she burns down when focussed on.

It's a fun list to play against, but the Rey, Rose, Finn, Corr, title* wombo combo has always had me raise an eyebrow.

*these are all the things yes?

2 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rey has always been bloody good? Access to passive double mods, goes where she wants....

Apart from the Force, is the second passive mod from Finn? Trying to keep these "go-to" combo sets straight in my head. 🤪

1 minute ago, Spinland said:

Apart from the Force, is the second passive mod from Finn? Trying to keep these "go-to" combo sets straight in my head. 🤪

Also her front arc ability, it does cost force, but allows her to swap a blank to a hit. Finn gives her a blank to swap.

16 minutes ago, Spinland said:

Apart from the Force, is the second passive mod from Finn? Trying to keep these "go-to" combo sets straight in my head. 🤪

Without looking it up, and trying to remember the full cascade....

She shoots, adds the Finn blank, spends it with Rose for a lock, spends the lock for rerolls, then uses her ability to mod either a blank or eyes with force. She's amazingly consistent but obviously has to manage the 2 force a little carefully. Most people I've played have gone full aggression with it and only saved force for defence in a pinch. It's possibly why she goes down fast when you pile on her, but I couldn't really speak for any extra you can gain from careful management. I've seen her at work plenty but not ever thought about how I'd play it. I just go ok, sure right, oh yeah, ok, now I roll defence?

11 hours ago, KCDodger said:

Wow, Rey is seeing play? Since when? What changed?

What else but costs? She has come down considerable in points. 80 in January 2019, 73 in July, 70 by Wave 6 last winter, and eventually down to 68. Title also down from 5 to 2.

To be sure, she got good somewhere in the middle, but it's been a process of folks figuring out how to actually fly her (since she is so different from a "normal" turret like Fat Han) and finding good wingmates. It's often not enough for a ship to be good, if the list hasn't been found for it yet. Stuff like Rey + Kaz + Cova is OK, but not this good by a stretch.

12 minutes ago, Spinland said:

Apart from the Force, is the second passive mod from Finn? Trying to keep these "go-to" combo sets straight in my head. 🤪

Somewhat Finn, somewhat Rose, somewhat Rey's own pilot ability. Add blanks. Spend force to turn blanks. Spend blanks for Locks. Rey gets played some without all the parts, but they all contribute.