25 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Now that Nantexes are diminished in their threat level. All of those who argued that Nanatexes were horrible for the game because they made it super hard to play mid/low initiative ships can justifiably turn their ire against RZ2s. 5 ships that can fight while arc dodging, are difficult to block, and have a very high initative average are just the thing that noble non i5/i6 ships need the community to be vigilant about.

Complaining on the internet has historically proven to be the best use of energy in x wing, I can't advise any other path here

You guys are too much 🤣

8 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

You guys are too much 🤣

Nantexes are dead, now back to your regularly scheduled RZ-2 complaining.

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I think I'm more worried about yet another I5 and the massive bench of pilots to spam than the Starbird.

A bit this for me. Remains to be seen how well Slash will play out, whether it's something you can play for without too much sacrifice, whether it just incidentally elevates the list, or it happens to be somehow rubbish.

But having a swathe of high Init boosty turrets with Optics feels a little apocalyptic. You can catch and erase the I1s and swing the balance, or focus and delete one of the 2 I5s to make them more manageable. If they're all I4 and 5, it's a bit urgh.

Going lower in places, there's some more awkward abilities to deal with. Like Merls Intimidation routine.

I know points get tight, so I'm not 100% on how much badness you can fit in. My mate sent me about half a dozen versions and my will to keep track melted in the face of it.

Is it an RZ-2 hate day or a Nantex hate day?

*flips coin*

RZ-2s!

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

Now that Nantexes are diminished in their threat level. All of those who argued that Nanatexes were horrible for the game because they made it super hard to play mid/low initiative ships can justifiably turn their ire against RZ2s. 5 ships that can fight while arc dodging, are difficult to block, and have a very high initative average are just the thing that noble non i5/i6 ships need the community to be vigilant about.

We talked about this, but figured I'd plop it here, too, that I don't think there will be that much high init in most 5A lists. But I mostly agree.

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

We talked about this, but figured I'd plop it here, too, that I don't think there will be that much high init in most 5A lists. But I mostly agree.

All four I5 A-Wings gives your 46 points left. Yeager gives you 5xI5, with 11 points for Heroic/SBS/R5 on Yeager.

That's a lot of big orange and zoominess, even without optics.

*reads Backwards Tailslide*

"Everything is coming up Kulbee Speardo!"

Admit it, you forgot this pilot existed

12 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

*reads Backwards Tailslide*

"Everything is coming up Kulbee Speardo!"

Admit it, you forgot this pilot existed

I am the ten time undefeated now retired alpha intergalactic loremaster 2000 until defeated sir, i absolutely did not forget that Kulbee exists

1 hour ago, MasterShake2 said:

*reads Backwards Tailslide*

"Everything is coming up Kulbee Speardo!"

Admit it, you forgot this pilot existed

I've been flying him nonstop. Honestly he's my second-favorite X-Wing after Luke. I4 X-Wings are the best. Maybe there's a little more space for I4 than there has been...

3 hours ago, gennataos said:

We talked about this, but figured I'd plop it here, too, that I don't think there will be that much high init in most 5A lists. But I mostly agree.

Is Optics the kicker? From what I remember, my pals 5A tended to just *** about waiting for their greens to fail before Crack Shot and Optics were spammed. Never had the same early punch without Crack but Heroic allows them to play a slightly longer game.... ?

I do forget many details, but I imagine you're going to have frustration both sides of the table when maxing out their Init. My feels are that there's going to be an optimal blend there, with neither high Init, nor Slash being a spammable factor.

35 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Is Optics the kicker? From what I remember, my pals 5A tended to just *** about waiting for their greens to fail before Crack Shot and Optics were spammed. Never had the same early punch without Crack but Heroic allows them to play a slightly longer game.... ?

I do forget many details, but I imagine you're going to have frustration both sides of the table when maxing out their Init. My feels are that there's going to be an optimal blend there, with neither high Init, nor Slash being a spammable factor.

The (conceded) optimal version will probably have a mix of init, 3-4 optics and 2-4 slashes.

6 hours ago, Biophysical said:

A-wings are so fair.

I'd be kvetching about them anyway but it makes me feel better when I agree with Biophysical.

6 hours ago, Npmartian said:

Is it an RZ-2 hate day or a Nantex hate day?

*flips coin*

RZ-2s!

*checks script*

Nantex have always been wholesome, and we have always been at war with RZ-2s.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

*checks script*

Nantex have always been cancer, and we have always been at war with RZ-2s.

FTFY

Neither ship was ever wholesome #neverforget

What do Boba, Nantex, and rz2s have in common?

My theory is they can pretty much always shoot, and some games they just feel unkillable.

If they only have one of those things (like games where their greens are uncooperative, or the lower init ones keep guessing wrong on turret direction) they feel pretty okay. Otherwise they aren’t very fun, and mostly because it feels like a wall you can’t get over or a swamp you can’t slog through, depending on what you brought.

That being said, I’ll still play with or against them any time, they are only unfun by comparison.

1 hour ago, MasterShake2 said:

FTFY

Neither ship was ever wholesome #neverforget

No, it was sort of a 1984 reference. "We have always been at war with Eastasia."

As soon as the war against Nantex is over, of course we have to say we've never been at war with them, but we've always been at war with RZ-2s.

1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

No, it was sort of a 1984 reference. "We have always been at war with Eastasia."

As soon as the war against Nantex is over, of course we have to say we've never been at war with them, but we've always been at war with RZ-2s.

Oh, I know. Everyone thinks I'm weird when I say something is "anti-good". I just wanted to clarify and meme

Hot take:

The new WSO gunner will be too expensive to spam effectively, especially when most factions can get around its need.

As previously discussed, it'll be great on single ships like a Torpedo Dengar with Jango crew and False Codes. But it's not worth spamming it in a world of passive sensors, targeting sync, lock sharing, or early locks.

3 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

Hot take:

The new WSO gunner will be too expensive to spam effectively, especially when most factions can get around its need.

As previously discussed, it'll be great on single ships like a Torpedo Dengar with Jango crew and False Codes. But it's not worth spamming it in a world of passive sensors, targeting sync, lock sharing, or early locks.

TIE SF with Missile and Passive Sensors, while everyone wants to smash that duplicate button, adding in WSO and not spamming and instead creating a solid filler in a mix squad could be useful IMO.

4 hours ago, AEIllingworth said:

What do Boba, Nantex, and rz2s have in common?

My theory is they can pretty much always shoot, and some games they just feel unkillable.

This is pretty much my exact problem with all of these ships.

X-wing is a miserable slog when your constantly rolling decently on your reds and then your opponent just nopes the attack multiple times a turn. Know what is not a great way to spend 3 hours of your night after walking for a half hour through bad weather to get to your FLGS from a place with reasonably priced parking? Playing vs 2 Boba lists where your opponent takes out 2 of your ship and then runs away and shoots out its butt the entire match casually dodging the entire output of your list, spending an hour flying in circles, getting ground down as the game basically doesn't happen.

I am super glad all these 'Your attacks will generally mean something' tools are coming out and have amazingly generous costs. If a list can casually not care about landing in 3 arcs on a 3 red ship with a focus because your list has no realistic chance to progress the game because you had the audacity to lose 1 ship, FFG needs to YEET that list out the window as NPE.

I have less experience fighting RZ2s (The one time I did it went ok. RZ2s are tough to hurt but when you hit you hit and its possible to land big meatshots against them with a torp), but Boba and the Nantex list definitely have that 'Hey you don't get to play X-wing tonight' issue.

A lot of the historical NPE ships/lists of X-wing 2.0 were NPE because they were just too defensively strong. Regen Delta-7Bs, Tie Phantoms, Whisper specifically, and Handbrake Han all also fit the bill of being lists where after a certain point in the match the opponent is incentivized to basically refuse to keep playing because they know you won't be able to earn enough MOV if they just refuse to take fights because their ships aren't valuable enough for their defensive ability, or worse, your attempt to stay in the game just makes you lose ships faster while not getting much done, like vs Handbrake Han or Boba.

3 hours ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

Hot take:

The new WSO gunner will be too expensive to spam effectively, especially when most factions can get around its need.

As previously discussed, it'll be great on single ships like a Torpedo Dengar with Jango crew and False Codes. But it's not worth spamming it in a world of passive sensors, targeting sync, lock sharing, or early locks.

You only need one goose to your Maverick anyway.

Seriously, I don't think I've ever had a problem playing against Boba. I have had individual ships in situations where I had no answer to him, such as an Outmanouevre Fang and 2x Bounty Hunter. The Fang ended up in a spot where he just had to accept an eventual, pointless death. I still won that one, since Boba doesn't deal well with 2x Bounty Hunter.

I mean, I get it and I've seen, heard plenty going on around me at tourneys where he has sickened people. But I just beat him up. Sometimes that'll leave me open to whatever he's brought with him, but that's the game.

I just always make sure I deal with Boba. You can't wait on that. If it means faking/kiting a 1st engage that's set up to protect him, then so be it.

I don't even find it unfun.

4hp 3ag spam, on the other hand, can be a real slog to earn points from. Whether that's A Wings, Nantex, TIEs, Scyks.... If they get some decent greens, retaining focus for shots, cycling the ships in danger, clogging space to limit your movement, or constantly dodging arc, It can feel hopeless.

The main difference between some, and others, is that if they are limited to single mod, front arc shots, they have to open up and work fairly hard themselves to score points. So it's more wholesome, but it can still be a slog and there's a range of lists that aren't cut out for that.

I don't think you can put Boba and 5A, Nantex spam in the same box, they're utterly different.

Regan Delta's, and so on, different again, very much defensively orientated, definitely not fun and anathema to a good game where you're both trying to actually score some decent points. Finishing a game against a Jedi list with the score at ~30-40 is bullhockey.

Edit. The point at which Boba definitely becomes unfun is when you're facing him for the 3rd time in 4 games, Boba spam is a problem. But playing against the same thing over and over becomes tedious for me, no matter what it is.

10 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

No, it was sort of a 1984 reference. "We have always been at war with Eastasia."

Double plus ungood. 😎🍺

Hrm.

I think @RStan is right that it looks like it'd be nice on missile SFs with Passive Sensors, at the right price. Passive and Shoot 1st round, 2nd round you can focus for double mods. Maybe that's another missile, maybe it's just a Range 1, but it seems like a nice follow-through. On the other hand, once a TIE/sf is more expensive than simply taking Special Forces Gunner, seems like... maybe just take SFG?

On something like a TIE Bomber, the option it opens up is to dial in that lovely 5K, so you can keep your Torps or Missiles on someone the next round.

So it's a worse 1e FCS since it only works with Lock-based attacks. Is it really going to be more than 4 points--the translated point cost from first edition? But even at 4... is that really worth? I don't know whether I'd spend 44 points for a Passive/Concussion/WSO Zeta. I don't know whether I'd spend 37 for a TIE Bomber with WSO/Conc.

What is the price point where this actually sees play?