ok well I'm not sure what's happening and I see a lot of flaming happening in here

but I'm taking the ping as an invitation to share my opinion?

Am I allowed to say that I still don't think we need to freak out about nantex? I felt like I saw the strengths and weaknesses of the list this weekend and I feel like any A-tier or better extended list has a solid chance of beating them which means I think the list is probably somewhere around low A-tier?

I know this thread likes to word police so I'm sorry for using the word "unimpressive", by which I probably just meant "not worth panicking about"

34 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

And thus, the great Kraft thread was forever silenced as we all did as @gennataos asked. There were none outside the #3 grouping.

we should probably move on yeah, idk why but this place just seems really unhealthy lately

I would like to note:

Just because someone doesnt play in GSP doesn't mean they're not playing or practicing. They may not want to sit for a 6+ hour online, paid tournament.

Just now, gennataos said:

According to some on this thread, this is great. Pretty sure most of them are incapable of admitting it's not.

Ugh...

Count me as NOT one of those.

I haven't played the build, or played against the build, so my opinion is strictly from watching a number of games with them.

But it seems like it just doesn't require as much skill to get good results with it.

(Where have we seen this before...)

Fortunately I don't know of anyone in my area that even owns one, let alone six.

2 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I would like to note:

Just because someone doesnt play in GSP doesn't mean they're not playing or practicing. They may not want to sit for a 6+ hour online, paid tournament.

I fully believe that. But no one is proving anything. I have not reason to believe you any more than you have reason to believe me.

Meanwhile, the only "events" that are happening suck.

13 minutes ago, Kyle Ren said:

we should probably move on yeah, idk why but this place just seems really unhealthy lately

I'll move on when you and your cronies admit you were wrong or mods wield their powers and smite me.

4 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I fully believe that. But no one is proving anything. I have not reason to believe you any more than you have reason to believe me.

I agree. This is always true, though.

5 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Meanwhile, the only "events" that are happening suck.

I agree. This is extra true.

Spamtex 3 for 3 in Galaxies so far. Last thing I can remember that was this dominant in a premier play season was Mindlink (paratanni) during a System Open season.

7 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I'll move on when you and your cronies admit you were wrong or mods wield their powers and smite me.

Me too mods. Please smite.

6 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I agree. This is extra true.

I find it ******* heart breaking. I love playing this game and I'm wondering how long I'm going to keep playing it. I guess that's the root of why I'm so...vociferous. If I quit playing this game, I'm going to end up cutting a lot of people out of my life, it's just reality. Which is a huge bummer. And, when I see a people give zero ***** about the meta being hot garbage, driving people out, it makes me (maybe) unreasonably upset.

5 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I would like to note:

Just because someone doesnt play in GSP doesn't mean they're not playing or practicing. They may not want to sit for a 6+ hour online, paid tournament.

While this is true, most here arguing that Nantex are fine have admitted to not playing at all right now and so have nothing but headsim to go off of.

The frustrating part is I think many of us are earnestly trying to figure out strategies that work against them, and we're getting lost in the noise of "Don't thonkjoust" as if that's the main reason people lose against them (It's not). Traditional ace play has a hard time. Traditional swarm play has a really hard time. We're trying to figure out what's to approach the list and I don't know that anyone has found it yet.

I have my Corellia invite; I'd like to have a decent chance against a good Nantex player, but that's looking less and less likely, so I'm resigned for now to punt that match 8 times out of 10. It's not a great feeling, but I'm still having fun with X-Wing, and I intend to weather this storm. Every card game I've played competitively has gone through periods of major imbalance, but X-Wing's points system gives me confidence that this will be resolved, if not quickly, still far faster than any other game would.

3 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I find it ******* heart breaking. I love playing this game and I'm wondering how long I'm going to keep playing it. I guess that's the root of why I'm so...vociferous. If I quit playing this game, I'm going to end up cutting a lot of people out of my life, it's just reality. Which is a huge bummer. And, when I see a people give zero ***** about the meta being hot garbage, driving people out, it makes me (maybe) unreasonably upset.

Hey, I know exactly how you feel! This was me at the end of 1.0.

The good news I have for you (take this with some grain of salt, mind you), unlike structural issues in 1.0, points changes occur, so this is functionally temporary. It'll go away.

It still sucks now, though, a lot.

6 minutes ago, hargleblarg said:

While this is true, most here arguing that Nantex are fine have admitted to not playing at all right now and so have nothing but headsim to go off of.

The frustrating part is I think many of us are earnestly trying to figure out strategies that work against them, and we're getting lost in the noise of "Don't thonkjoust" as if that's the main reason people lose against them (It's not). Traditional ace play has a hard time. Traditional swarm play has a really hard time. We're trying to figure out what's to approach the list and I don't know that anyone has found it yet.

Maybe.

Again, you're going to have to yell at Dion on that one, because man, the games and pics I see are jousts. Starting diagonal doesn't mean they aren't jousting.

Even the aces just cut off their own escapes and limit their own dials.

**All of this doesn't mean I don't think the list isn't too good. Just that I also see really poor play, list selection, and general tactics.

38 minutes ago, hargleblarg said:

I have my Corellia invite; I'd like to have a decent chance against a good Nantex player, but that's looking less and less likely, so I'm resigned for now to punt that match 8 times out of 10. It's not a great feeling, but I'm still having fun with X-Wing, and I intend to weather this storm. Every card game I've played competitively has gone through periods of major imbalance, but X-Wing's points system gives me confidence that this will be resolved, if not quickly, still far faster than any other game would.

Good luck!

What I would like to know from the players that are still saying Nantex are fine and these numbers at the GSP events don't matter. How would you have reacted if Imperial Aces or Republic High Orange Jedi would have put up the same performance during these events?

What is happening in here?

Anyway, I think Poe dropping is good for great balls of fire since it means I can add Heroic, but I'm still not sure if I want black 1 or R4. R4 helps me with the hard turns, which is cool, but black 1 means I can either eject from a bad joust or keep up with the fireballs for an initial engage (frequently a joust TBH). Also thinking about what I'll do with HoH Poe, who although he seems really good doesn't seem great for this list.

Follow-up: New Snap seems pretty good in a 4 block - use the -1 agility to incentivize shooting a worse target who also gets a calculate for offense or defense. He has to be more than 60 points (or other T70s have to go up, which, doubtful) for him + Jess + Bastian + Blue to not fit, which seems like a good list with Snap providing himself and at least the Blue extra mods.

7 hours ago, gennataos said:

I think, in general, a lot of the folks in this thread are:

1. Cowards
2. Not playing the game
3. Don't know what they're talking about

can i sign up for all three

6 hours ago, gennataos said:

So I'm going to talk about why I'm irritated. I hear a lot of bull about "how not to lose against nantex", but none of you....NONE OF YOU IN THIS THREAD, have proven it. If you think hyperspace is some sort of safe haven, prove it in Mustafar. If you don't think online events matter, go back to playing D&D or whatever, because you're not actually contributing to the current meta conversion. Despite your Fort Hyperspace or "online is meaningless" stance, Extended is happening RIGHT NOW.

I'm so mad about X-Wing (not really). You're a dumbass for responding to me.

Not sure if this was aimed in my direction but the D&D comment made it seem like it might be - if so, sorry.

5 hours ago, gennataos said:

I find it ******* heart breaking. I love playing this game and I'm wondering how long I'm going to keep playing it. I guess that's the root of why I'm so...vociferous. If I quit playing this game, I'm going to end up cutting a lot of people out of my life, it's just reality. Which is a huge bummer. And, when I see a people give zero ***** about the meta being hot garbage, driving people out, it makes me (maybe) unreasonably upset.

It's not really my place to give unsolicited advice, but at the moment I don't really know that you have much of a choice. If you're enjoying online events, awesome - but at the moment this clearly isn't making you happy.

I want to say something along the lines of do you really want to be part a community that is going nuclear over either something being too good, or the reverse insisting that it's fine and people just suck, git gud, etc... But realistically everyone is really on edge at the moment, this is the most stressed out a lot of people here have ever been in their life, and it's been going on for six months. This is why I haven't been trying to get in the middle of @jagsba and @GreenDragoon - while i know jagsba in person and don't know green dragoon personally, i know enough about both of you to know that you shouldn't be having problems like this. I don't think there's anything to do to mend any kind of wounds at this point other than to ask both of you to knock it off - I got a message from a friend at like 4 AM this morning that they're up because they had to play mod on a discord server at 2 in the morning because things were spilling over somewhere else.

Anyways, like I said it's not really my place to play interpersonal police, whatever damage is done, and if you guys want to get along again - awesome, I'm hoping for the best. @gennataos - I think you have the right approach, at least in the past while you've been trying to assemble/coordinate strategies, builds, etc for what to do about nantexans. If we're being realistic, I don't have the drive or care to play a bunch of online test games in these conditions. BUT - we have two weeks before squadrons drops and I disappear for a while, and I've been meaning to make some updates to ATC anyways (part of open sourcing it, some basics at https://github.com/chrisalleng/atc, you can see when I last touched it months ago...). Would you be interested in/do you think it would help discussion if I wrap those changes up, so we can load individual winrates for nantexes against specific lists, archetypes, pilots, initiatives, etc? It won't help with strategies, but maybe shed some light on what's going on in games in a quickly understandable way.

Lastly, if we're being honest, it just doesn't matter whether or not nantexes are ok, or if fort hyperspace is better, or whatever. What matters is unironically the friends you made along the way. I have no power here, but I'd ask that people make an attempt at giving people the benefit of the doubt for a bit, even if frankly a few people are probably long past that point by now. Basically once you give up on each other, which you clearly all have at this point, things are only going to get worse as you assume worse and worse intentions.

X-Wing isn’t going to last forever. Nothing does, and certainly FFG games don’t.

Ok. wow. A while back you made our X-Wing dad step in and try to restore reason. Now y'all went and made our crazy uncle drop the act and get all reasonable. It's all fun and games until you get so mean that @Brunas has to drop the kayfabe and give us perspective. Be Excellent to Each Other folks.

Can't help myself but to add that Nantexi will definitely ruin Hyperspace too. Marksmanship is OK, Gravitic Deflection can be money, and 180 point six nakeds is legitimate.

If miracles happen and FFG adds a point change with their new ships this week. Let's say PAA goes up 5 and CrackShot goes up 1. I'm willing to bet that 5 Bugs with crack and Predator would still make the cut if flown well at Crait.

13 minutes ago, Brunas said:

What matters is unironically the friends you made along the way.

This thread is dying off. Some other regulars here and myself moved on to better places weeks ago. You have also made your own carefully maintained garden - and team mentality has kicked in quite a bit. The only thing left here in this thread is debris and a memory of better times.
It was a great place to exchange ideas and discuss something we all enjoy. That is the sad part, there is now no other place to have these discussions and for different groups to exchange ideas. The lack of peer-moderation is literally breaking this small microcosm apart. To me, that is a direct consequence of the boundless and sometimes tasteless sarcasm hidden behind "memeing". I also have no problem calling out bullies who get no other resistance, and bullying is ultimately what he tries to do. From my point of view, you harbor a few rotten apples and while they haven't spoiled the bunch, they make it harder to justify remaining a part of and interacting with certain communities. So in that sense, they unfortunately do spoil the bunch. The one thing that brought me close to deleting/trashing everything and move on entirely are people like Jagsba. Their actions have consequences. The meta was never the problem, and it still isn't. It is a mirror that shows us how healthy the community at large and in small bits really is.

Whether you like it or not, you stand for "the Krayts", more than anyone else. And while you have my utmost respect and gratitude for the things you did and do, you also have to realize that you carry responsibility for those under that mantle. Because there, you do have power.

For my part, I regret that it went as far. We could probably talk it out - which was by the way the intention - but I am giving up. On more people than I want to.

As side note, I want to point out that we are in very different situations regarding personal stress. Your country is unironically fighting for its very soul. Mine is discussing whether we want to give a bit more or less parental leave. I concede that I should have reacted with more empathy, should have shut up more often and should not have called out bs the same way that I've done for years now. That is not comparable to the palpable anxiety that has been ramping up towards November.

From the outside it looks like America is going to split, it’s unreconcilable - neither words or actions can bring this back together as it’s been demonstrated repeatedly over the last four years that there’s zero common ground whatsoever. The ACW never stopped it just went underground and the confederacy carried on fighting it unopposed.

For the love of God, don't go into American politics, please. We know, we're doing the best we can to fix it, but it's still going to suck for a while.

Good post, Chris. Hopefully it reins in some of the snarky sniping on this thread.

As for the Nantexes, we have a points thing coming up in November, so you just have to deal with the suck for a little while longer (which neatly wraps around to my first sentences...). Then we'll have a whole new thing to complain about! Is the big finale after the points rebalance or before? I haven't been paying attention, since I'm not playing in any of them.

"Those under that mantle"? Can you make a list of people under the Krayt Mantle, so Chris knows who he's responsible for?

This is a thread about a toy spaceships podcast where we play Mario Tennis.

Go outside. Take a walk. Jesus.

Option A :

Option B :

Option C :

Option D :

Feel free to combine available options.

9 hours ago, gennataos said:

So I'm going to talk about why I'm irritated. I hear a lot of bull about "how not to lose against nantex", but none of you....NONE OF YOU IN THIS THREAD, have proven it. If you think hyperspace is some sort of safe haven, prove it in Mustafar. If you don't think online events matter, go back to playing D&D or whatever, because you're not actually contributing to the current meta conversion. Despite your Fort Hyperspace or "online is meaningless" stance, Extended is happening RIGHT NOW.

I'm so mad about X-Wing (not really). You're a dumbass for responding to me.

Calm down dad

15 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Option A :

Option B :

Option C :

Option D :

Feel free to combine available options.

Look, man, I dunno what's up with you. I know COVID-19 is a PITA, and I know it's affecting a lot of people in different ways, but it's not just here: I've seen your posts deteriorate in the Krayts thread, as well. You're posting snippy, unsubstantiated, deliberately borderline stuff. It's like you want to start fights. That's cool, you know, whatever gets you through the weirdness of 2020. But if this is really the "new" @Boom Owl , just let me know, so I can adjust my expectations and start just skipping stuff like I do for so many other people. I've got Vince for amusing me by being a total d!ck to people for no reason ... that's not what I've heretofore found valuable in your contributions here.

@Chumbalaya thats it that was the last straw. Im never listening to your Mario Tennis podcast again.

Also, @SOTL @Stay On The Leader @Stay OT Leader Option B with the politics my dude.