8 minutes ago, Spinland said:

But then you uncover a Direct Hit and all is forgiven?

Obviously. When he flips a direct hit or fuel leak or whatever, he's a rebel autoinclude. When he flips literally anything else that doesn't massively impact the game, he's hot garbage and should never be taken.

18 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

I think i'd even take it vs 6 nantex

Give it a try, I'm curious what happens

4 minutes ago, Npmartian said:

Obviously. When he flips a direct hit or fuel leak or whatever, he's a rebel autoinclude. When he flips literally anything else that doesn't massively impact the game, he's hot garbage and should never be taken.

Heh. Thanks. Just checking to make sure my Anecdotal Detector is working. 😎🍺

36 minutes ago, Spinland said:

But then you uncover a Direct Hit and all is forgiven?

nope

25 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Give it a try, I'm curious what happens

god that sounds like a lot of work on my end

43 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

Backing up a little now that i've eaten, im pretty sure 6x would be a monster, and y'all underestimate how much hp that is to chew through behind two dice and the ridiculous amount of arc coverage it provides. That's before you start to sprinkle them in to other existing lists at that discount. I think i'd even take it vs 6 nantex as that list exists now even with how efficent the nantex can be against an x.

"They're only 2 green dice and 4 hp. How can they be that hard to deal with?"
*spends multiple turns not shooting at the Nantexes as they fly circles around them*

4 hours ago, catachanninja said:

okay but that implies thanes ability is worth anything which it absoltely is not, but im also generally unwilling to play thane, so maybe i can go down further?

I find Thane pretty fine for 48. Even though his performance is uneven, it's basically all upside. He's probably not too good for the game at 1 or 2 points less, but I have no complaints.

why is vader still a 5 point upgrade over luke?

5 minutes ago, svelok said:

why is vader still a 5 point upgrade over luke?

3 force Vs 2 force.

you gotta pay the tax man!

6 minutes ago, svelok said:

why is vader still a 5 point upgrade over luke?

Faction synergy?

:shrugs:

Thane's an I5 X-Wing for a bargain-ish price. That's not nothing. I did pretty well in a Tourney taking Han with Engine Upgrade, K2, and Nien Crew with Thane, and Gina. Thane did some work in that squad. Having Han rolling and rerolling buckets of dice sure helped. For a last minute throw together, it did really well. But Gina is trash. You wanna pick on an I5 Rebel that ain't worth the points, pick on Gina.

Edit for clarity cuz ninjas.

10 minutes ago, svelok said:

why is vader still a 5 point upgrade over luke?

Because no one ever "blames" Vader for anything that he wins. Its thematic! Something something:

P.S. Vader is a perfect example of why Hyperspace is the superior format. /Ban Afterburners and all of a sudden his cost makes sense and he is actually interesting to play with or against.

Tbh, I don't think Luke has been blamed for anything he's won either....

2 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Tbh, I don't think Luke has been blamed for anything he's won either....

Vader has a better Ace Taxes accountant who found more loop holes.

I think most of what looks "wrong "with Vader's cost is more directly related to Burners, Precog, Grand Inq, and Soontir now though.

7 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Vader has a better Ace Taxes accountant who found more loop holes.

I think most of what looks "wrong "with Vader's cost is more directly related to Burners, Precog, Grand Inq, and Soontir now though.

Agreed.

Naked Vader is sort of alright. Most of it is wrapped up in why would you do that?

I mean, I would, but ya know.

12 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Tbh, I don't think Luke has been blamed for anything he's won either....

vader has 2 worlds wins, luke zero

Just now, catachanninja said:

vader has 2 worlds wins, luke zero

Oh hey, you spelled out the punchline

Really though, super expensive Vader is a different sort of problem. Running 88pt Vader with 2 SuperInqs was nonsense on the scoreboard. He costs more, I win more.

The only saving grace was that it was at least a mostly even game.

That I could maybe choose to win if it got tight a bit.

9 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Naked Vader is sort of alright.

He is still really strong.

Part of why I like running Vader in Hyperspace so much is that he badly needs to "approach" combat correctly to get to act like an Ace.

He can't just make it up as he goes or zoom zoom pew pew like I normally would with Precog FCS Burners.

He also doesn't have to just thonk joust though he certainly is equipped to do that with just FCS and nothing else.

At 69 pts he is legitimately interesting.

Like other Aces in the 69 pt sweet spot point range.

Such as Poe and Fenn Rau.

3 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

He is still really strong.

Part of why I like running Vader in Hyperspace so much is that he badly needs to "approach" combat correctly to get to act like an Ace.

He can't just make it up as he goes or zoom zoom pew pew like I normally would with Precog FCS Burners.

At 69 pts he is legitimately interesting.

Like other Aces in the 69 pt sweet spot point range.

Oh I agree, I mean costed sort of alright.

_this is my dictionary definition of perfectly balanced btw_

16 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

He is still really strong.

Part of why I like running Vader in Hyperspace so much is that he badly needs to "approach" combat correctly to get to act like an Ace.

He can't just make it up as he goes or zoom zoom pew pew like I normally would with Precog FCS Burners.

He also doesn't have to just thonk joust though he certainly is equipped to do that with just FCS and nothing else.

At 69 pts he is legitimately interesting.

Like other Aces in the 69 pt sweet spot point range.

Such as Poe and Fenn Rau.

i struggle to believe that buffing luke is more deserved than nerfing vader, though

Just now, svelok said:

i struggle to believe that buffing luke is more deserved than nerfing vader, though

62 is fine for Luke. Vader could probably be 69 pts base before FCS.

Just now, Boom Owl said:

Vader could probably be 69 pts

Nice

14 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

62 is fine for Luke. Vader could probably be 69 pts base before FCS.

More agrees.

Honestly don't think it changes a lot. But if the comparison to Luke feels happier, go for it.

Quick ball toss, think fast. That and the v1s up a couple points, maybe GGI up 3. Maybe another 1 or 2 on Soontir. Are we still seeing dominance in a Nontex world?

11 hours ago, svelok said:

would it take 30 point xwings to be clearly the best?

I think we're heading there as a meta...

I think we may see 35 pt X base eventually, and 20 pt TIE/ln, but at some point, upgrades have to fluctuate as well....

I personally would vote for 10pt ProTorps before more cheap HP at this point.

The issue of Torps always being better on Luke or Kylo doesn't change with that...even if the devs raised their costs by an equivalent amount.

Those pilots are simply always going to be better at everything.

Once we've recognized that....

The next steps are adding actual new content like configs and titles and faction-specific upgrades.

I believe that is the era we are currently cracking in competitive X-Wing; 2E officially has pushed the balance far enough to see the bottom of the barrels and needs to create NEW content that starts to address these competitive restraints (that plague generics) and open up the meta a lot more.

56 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

vader has 2 worlds wins, luke zero

But he blew up the Death Star...

That's gotta count for something.

Instinctive Aim ProTorps Luke can one-shot anything.

True story.