4 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

How quaint. A legion of brainwashed slaves... 😒

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

How quaint. A legion of brainwashed slaves... 😒

Actually this sentiment is what I thought was cool about Clone Wars. Qui-Gon wouldn't have stood with what the Council became and did, but there it went. People traded their freedom for security against a "greater evil", ultimately losing both as fascism rose.

4 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

How quaint. A legion of brainwashed slaves... 😒

Unlike the droids?

My take: From what Obi-Wan says in Star Wars, what most folks would naturally presume "The Clone Wars" were was being invaded by clones (or at least clones on both sides).

But the clones being the bad guys means Jedi cutting to pieces clones in a kids film. So... maybe make them Robots? So I guess the good guys have the clones?

Nothing about the prequels makes any **** sense. I love how Rex and Ezra lampshade this in Rebels.

1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

Nothing about the prequels makes any **** sense.

Forgot they starred that one.

• CAPT. Bad language or abuse,
  • I never, never use,
  • Whatever the emergency;
  • Though "Bother it" I may
  • Occasionally say,
  • I never use a big, big D--
• ALL. What, never?
• CAPT. No, never!
• ALL. What, never?
• CAPT. Hardly ever!
• ALL. Hardly ever swears a big, big D--
  • Then give three cheers, and one cheer more,
  • For the well-bred Captain of the Pinafore!

Force slot upgrade: gain 2 force charges (so as many as 5 total on eg vader), but your force charges cannot be recovered/regened.

What would this card be worth?

31 minutes ago, svelok said:

Force slot upgrade: gain 2 force charges (so as many as 5 total on eg vader), but your force charges cannot be recovered/regened.

What would this card be worth?

Do you get points to take it?

6 hours ago, svelok said:

Force slot upgrade: gain 2 force charges (so as many as 5 total on eg vader), but your force charges cannot be recovered/regened.

What would this card be worth?

In a format where there is no time to regen Force (outside of Hate?), it could have use. Otherwise, it is a direct downgrade to Vader if he lives to turn 3.

Joni's Blessing (no regen via Focus, but significantly more health) is a useful charm for certain boss battles mainly because those battles are too hectic to regenerate health by focusing even if you were to equip Quick Focus. So saying, "I don't have time, I'll invest all my Soul into high-aggro moves instead" is a valid playstyle, so long as it synergizes with the charms you have equipped in your notches.

(This is not one of those boss battles, but a representation of how it feels to see a Vader not have to use his Force on defense so the odds of any piece from the rest of your list tag him quickly dwindle).

Force is trivially easy to recover, however. Whereas Hollow Knight demands that players perfect game sense, pattern recognition, timing, and location in order to heal mid-combat with the proper balance of high-precision high-aggression attacks and parries, dashes, and dodges; there are many times where you so desperately want to heal but game state is preventing you oh-so hard from it. On the other end of the spectrum, you literally do nothing to recover Force in X-Wing. If Vader lives to turn 4, he will be guaranteed to have been better not taking this card. And again, realistically speaking, turn 3 is when Vader sees how bad this card is.

I could, however, see this card as being useful in tandem with other force-related cards. Kannan Jarrus with Maul on board (yes, that means Ezra somewhere, but hear me out) can have a higher rate of using his pilot ability and thanks to his 0 agility and high HP count, could slowly regen, although probably at a net declining rate. Probably still garbage, but annoying to droid and scum swarms. Yoda, the Senate, Mace and Leia can regenerate the Force if their conditions are met, which aren't too hard.

It seems that once again, it would be a Force Power usuable only by Luke Skywalker in 95% of cases. And although Luke needs the ability the least, because he can actually make use of it, I'd want to see it costed 20 pt for him.

9 hours ago, svelok said:

What would this card be worth?

Scaled value based on starting force charges.

Force crew/gunners would really mess with the math, however.

9 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Do you get points to take it?

how many extra charges to hit break even value? three? four? six?

Based on Vassal League Season 10 Hyperspace Only Games so far. Not a complete inventory. Includes Old and New Points.

Do you think there is something inherently weak about 4 ship lists, say they are in an awkward middle ground where they aren't 'acey' enough to avoid losing a piece early and they don't have enough pieces to function well after they do?

7 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

Do you think there is something inherently weak about 4 ship lists, say they are in an awkward middle ground where they aren't 'acey' enough to avoid losing a piece early and they don't have enough pieces to function well after they do?

Alot of players bring very bad 4 ship lists. Thats my only real conclusion. There are good ones in there mixed with tons of Dutch Vander lists.

6 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

Do you think there is something inherently weak about 4 ship lists, say they are in an awkward middle ground where they aren't 'acey' enough to avoid losing a piece early and they don't have enough pieces to function well after they do?

My unfounded guess is that they are even more popular than 3ship ace builds, but much more difficult to build and play well.

Could be tested by looking at how diverse those buckets are

Still Hyperspace only Vassal League 10 ( Old/New Points ). Keep in mind this is essentially the equivalent of looking at 1 Tournament but its all we have. For context one player was responsible for roughly half the Epsilon FO wins. Either way fun to look at. No cut rate equivalent from League either which is usually more meaningful. Not all pilots reflected here either.

Side note, get it together Kylo and Holo players...

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

My unfounded guess is that they are even more popular than 3ship ace builds, but much more difficult to build and play well.

Could be tested by looking at how diverse those buckets are

"What would the win rate be of the most broken hero in Overwatch? 50% because every team would have them"

3 hours ago, Transmogrifier said:

Do you think there is something inherently weak about 4 ship lists, say they are in an awkward middle ground where they aren't 'acey' enough to avoid losing a piece early and they don't have enough pieces to function well after they do?

4s immediately scream, "mid-range/control" to me.

Those I3-I4 pilots that generally fill those lists are generally not costed as correctly as their I5/I6 or I1/I2 buddies on the same chassis.

Then I consider the tools these mid-range lists generally need to wield in order to maintain an edge over the aces after they've taken a loss, or an edge against the swarms after they've been blocked.

Secondaries DID just go down a lot across the board....

A couple bombs went down as well.

Maybe we'll see the viability of 4-ship go up a couple more notches.

4 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Still Hyperspace only Vassal League 10 ( Old/New Points ). Keep in mind this is essentially the equivalent of looking at 1 Tournament but its all we have. For context one player was responsible for roughly half the Epsilon FO wins. Either way fun to look at. No cut rate equivalent from League either which is usually more meaningful. Not all pilots reflected here either.

Side note, get it together Kylo and Holo players...

Moar detailz on RSE lists, plz.

37 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Moar detailz on RSE lists, plz.

Mostly 3 RSEs + 1BSR + Rose played by 1 player. Couple other lists mixed in there. RSE and the i4 Nantex are in a similar boat for me, ok lists but I wouldnt read to much into those lower list totals having high win %s. Like Holo with 0% win rate...

The League is goofy and full of testers.

2 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

"What would the win rate be of the most broken hero in Overwatch? 50% because every team would have them"

Yes, but no. Those 100 lists with 4 ships could be incredibly diverse or all the same. If it turns out that they are 80 different builds then it is rather meaningless to say something about 4 ship builds in general. Maybe few people won all their games, maybe not.
In Overwatch everyone gets the same hero.

e: low numbers already, coupled with this

38 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

The League is goofy and full of testers.

removes any meaningful conclusion.

34 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

removes any meaningful conclusion.

Its the same as reviewing Space Jam results for 2-3 tournaments. Bunch of anecdotes.

My only real take away is that the 32% win rate with 30+ Kylo lists is really alarming. I for sure have not concluded that Kylo is bad, he is not. I have however concluded that Kylo players are legitimately bad at X-Wing. Those are the facts.

40 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

removes any meaningful conclusion.

Frankly, guys, were not gonna have any super relevant data until full OP with multiple tiers has resumed and played it's course over at least one or two seasons.

12 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Frankly, guys, were not gonna have any super relevant data until full OP with multiple tiers has resumed and played it's course over at least one or two seasons.

Yea thats why I put this together. Because its fun to look at league results/totals. It still at least shows some of the same trends we saw in the hyper data back when tournaments were still happening (ignoring Kylo 🤔 ). Also seems like League Players generally opted out of running CIS Swarms with TFDs which is nothing new either I guess.

Its encouraging to me to see 5-8 ship lists perform as well as they have even in limited #s. Thats a really good thing for the game and I hope to see similar results from GSP Worlds.

Just now, Bucknife said:

Frankly, guys, were not gonna have any super relevant data until full OP with multiple tiers has resumed and played it's course over at least one or two seasons.

I argue not even then. 7 factions with tons of viable lists, 2 different formats. That gives enough to see trends, but the days of conclusive data are gone. A few hyperspace trials or nationals/SOS won't change that.

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

the days of conclusive data are gone

Just depends on what your expectations are. I never really looked to Tournament or League results to conclusively decide what is good or worth playing. Its just a little bit of detail (sometimes misleading) to consider together with actual matchup testing.