On 6/29/2020 at 12:59 PM, ClassicalMoser said:

Hey now, I said "shine" not "dominate"

And I'd definitely want a more equal representation than that. They wouldn't have held up so well against the swarm lists we're seeing now, and there's no way Cassian or Braylen are going to be that cheap in the near future.

Now on the other hand, Kulbee, Leevan, Evaan Verlaine, Saw, Magva, Bodhi Rook, Kallus, Shara Bey, Ibtisam, Leebo, Dutch, Horton, Miranda, Gavin, Oicunn, Morna Kee, Turr Phennir, Rhymer, Karsabi...

The list of dead pilots goes on and on. I'd like to see half of the above names somewhere in the vicinity of the meta. Not dominating it, mind you (6x strikers and 5x X-Wings didn't dominate it either), but at least showing up.

You're back to the same problem that people that think there's a conspiracy that every ship being good is thematic have - there are so many thematic things in the game that it's impossible for all of them to be viable. Every single named character is someone's favorite pilot.

17 minutes ago, Brunas said:

tl;dr what is even happening, why is anyone yelling at a-wings, they're middling at best.

RZ-2s do a thing some folks don't like.

"It's almost always shooting me for little to no damage! Damnit!"

Just now, gennataos said:

RZ-2s do a thing some folks don't like.

"It's almost always shooting me for little to no damage! Damnit!"

The worst thing to be in X-Wing: A ship which doesn't win excessively, but still really annoys people.

To be fair, boosting past something and still getting shots can be a little frustrating. Deserves nerfs? Prolly not.

Justice for Malarus and Named Torrents when.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

The worst thing to be in X-Wing: A ship which doesn't win excessively, but still really annoys people.

To be fair, boosting past something and still getting shots can be a little frustrating. Deserves nerfs? Prolly not.

2nd ed was supposed to be about flying, preplanning and paying for actions. Rz2 with that dial still shooting backwards can be frustrating. Also, do not fall again for the fallacy annoying+[not-overly-powerful]=totally OK.

Also pretty telling that Zizi is in 128 of 315 Resistance squads, isn't it?

17 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

2nd ed was supposed to be about flying, preplanning and paying for actions. Rz2 with that dial still shooting backwards can be frustrating. Also, do not fall again for the fallacy annoying+[not-overly-powerful]=totally OK.

There's a big difference between just flying around and pointing your turret backwards and flying them well. If you think otherwise...I offer you a friendly wave and I'll be on my way!

17 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Also pretty telling that Zizi is in 128 of 315 Resistance squads, isn't it?

What is it telling?

6 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Also, do not fall again for the fallacy annoying+[not-overly-powerful]=totally OK.

I think this is a fair way to look at it. Resistance wasn't dominating when Big Deal received an errata for the timing on his strain mechanics, but that doesn't mean that something wasn't amiss.

With that said, I do have a horse in this race, as I think Advanced Optics should go up a point, so I'm not unbiased. In return however, I would not mind seeing some of those RZ2's go down a point in compensation. My main rub with Adv. Optics is 5 Omega SFs. I find that list dreadfully boring. So to compensate for the uptick on Optics, the SF Gunner can go down 2 points. It ruins 5 Fanatical Optics Omega SFs, but would offer up 5 SF Gunner Zetas in compensation as a near equivalent to 5X. It would also make it easier for named SFs to take the gunner, since named SFs aren't exactly the hotness right now.

7 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

I think this is a fair way to look at it. Resistance wasn't dominating when Big Deal received an errata for the timing on his strain mechanics, but that doesn't mean that something wasn't amiss.

Finn was mechanically broken, don't think many denied that. Composure Snap was mechanically broken. I'd argue any ship which can abuse a red linked action is mechanically broken (L'ulo, named B-Wings, other stuff I guess). But that sort of stuff is way different than, "I don't like how this ship is designed, PLZ FIX".

A-Wings are tricky. They don't deserve the "bad-feelings" nerfbat in the same way that TIE Defenders and Nantex do. I love Defenders, they're by far my most flown Imperial ship in 2e, and I'm glad they're priced to stay somewhat rare on casual night.

I don't think A-Wings are frustrating enough to warrant the same kind of treatment, but they're probably the closest to that tipping point of ships which haven't gone over the edge.

1 hour ago, Managarmr said:

2nd ed was supposed to be about flying, preplanning and paying for actions. Rz2 with that dial still shooting backwards can be frustrating. Also, do not fall again for the fallacy annoying+[not-overly-powerful]=totally OK.

Also pretty telling that Zizi is in 128 of 315 Resistance squads, isn't it?

It's totally fine to not like specific ships or actions, but your justification scares me. Effectively, you're saying I don't like X regardless of balance concerns, but then actually look my evidence is I think Zizi being in 128 of 315 resistance squads is demonstrating a game balance issue.

Luke Skywalker (pilot) is in 133 out of 451 rebel lists.

Vonreg is in 100 out of 322 first order lists.

Are they a problem? Are they telling?

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Justice for Malarus and Named Torrents when.

Justice for Y-wings when?

Just now, Brunas said:

Luke Skywalker (pilot) is in 133 out of 451 rebel lists.

Vonreg is in 100 out of 322 first order lists.

Luke is objectively underplayed.

Vonreg is prolly fine.

Where's Sun Fac, people?

Ensnare is Extended legal to abuse...but I'm noooott seeing 'em....?

25 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Vonreg is in 100 out of 322 first order lists.

That's a problem, yeah...

Vonreg isn't good enough to be in a third of all FO lists.

Then again, Kylo is in probably 200/322

Lets just rename this thread “Rz2a is the best X-Wing podcast” and talk about TLJ.

X-Wing 3.0 looks good

If you preorder it now, you get exclusive Imperial Ace and New Republic Recruit skins

1 hour ago, Brunas said:

It's totally fine to not like specific ships or actions, but your justification scares me. Effectively, you're saying I don't like X regardless of balance concerns, but then actually look my evidence is I think Zizi being in 128 of 315 resistance squads is demonstrating a game balance issue.

Luke Skywalker (pilot) is in 133 out of 451 rebel lists.

Vonreg is in 100 out of 322 first order lists.

Are they a problem? Are they telling?

FFG designs their own game. And while I am not fond of the influx of ships with good to excellent dials and the ability to fire in several directions (Rz2, TIE sf), they are tolerable if they are fairly costed. (Btw the 104th Arc is undercosted as well, but at least it flies like a brick).

However, Zizi is not fairly costed, as the overabundance corroborates. Every time something is nearing autoinclude level, or is actually an autoinclude for certain ships or pilots, which applies for optics, then it deserves a hard look.

Especially as FFG does not separate casual and hardcore tournament costs.

But some posters here will defend all Rz2s to the bitter end.

1 hour ago, Brunas said:

It's totally fine to not like specific ships or actions, but your justification scares me. Effectively, you're saying I don't like X regardless of balance concerns, but then actually look my evidence is I think Zizi being in 128 of 315 resistance squads is demonstrating a game balance issue.

Luke Skywalker (pilot) is in 133 out of 451 rebel lists.

Vonreg is in 100 out of 322 first order lists.

Are they a problem? Are they telling?

I can't speak about Vonreg, but Luke being in 133 of 451 lists tells how bad rebels are now

30 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

FFG designs their own game. And while I am not fond of the influx of ships with good to excellent dials and the ability to fire in several directions (Rz2, TIE sf), they are tolerable if they are fairly costed. (Btw the 104th Arc is undercosted as well, but at least it flies like a brick).

However, Zizi is not fairly costed, as the overabundance corroborates. Every time something is nearing autoinclude level, or is actually an autoinclude for certain ships or pilots, which applies for optics, then it deserves a hard look.

Especially as FFG does not separate casual and hardcore tournament costs.

But some posters here will defend all Rz2s to the bitter end.

Zizi is only an overabundance in her faction, which is the fifth most represented faction. That faction also performs at the fifth worst rate. Does that mean she's autoinclude because she's op, or because that rest of the faction isn't good?

9 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

I can't speak about Vonreg, but Luke being in 133 of 451 lists tells how bad rebels are now

Luke is i5, has the force, and can technically do both repositions. He's not bad. He's just not severely undercosted like other factions' premiere force aces- Vader, boba, zizi, [sad CIS noises], Kylo, or obi/plo.

Also, braylenn is heckin really good, man. So that's like 114 points of pretty good in a faction. They just need 86 more points that are worth taking...

3 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

Luke is i5, has the force, and can technically do both repositions. He's not bad. He's just not severely undercosted like other factions' premiere force aces- Vader, boba, [sad resistance and CIS noises], Kylo, or obi/plo.

Also, braylenn is heckin really good, man. So that's like 114 points of pretty good in a faction. They just need 86 more points that are worth taking...

Are you saying that 114 points rebel are good but 200 are bad?

Zizi has approximately a 50% win rate against Boba (35 games) and Vultures (12 games) in Hyperspace.

Weirdly the only bad matchup in hyper is Vader 37% (16 games) and Holo 35% ( 14 games ).

Zizi also does pretty ok against i5 and i6 pilots. Which is neat I guess?

Compared to Holo vs i5 and i6 pilots:

Not alot of games though and is not really necessary or useful information.

Motion to rename this thread "RZ2A is the best X-Wing podcast" remains in effect.

Also TLJ is alot better movie on second viewing if you ignore exactly 25% of it.

12 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Are you saying that 114 points rebel are good but 200 are bad?

I'm saying that in a 200 points squad, rebels have at least 114 points of quality ship...and the value of the remaining 86 points is probably less than the quality of braylenn and Luke points.

12 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Also TLJ is alot better movie on second viewing if you ignore exactly 25% of it.

For me, knowing that rj had his team watch movies like Bridge Over the River Kwai and Apocalypse Now to prep for TLJ frames the style differently. Kwai is not precisely what you'd call a "triumphant" film. Given that it's star wars TLJ isn't "mad Marlon Brando in the jungle" dark, but it still has a distinct lack, for me anyway, of the grand and rcisive victory of Luke destroying the death star, for example. I feel it nails this messy, grey tone much better than RotS, or even empire.

Like, people complain about Canto Bight being pointless...but that's... that's the point. War is often futile and heroic tropes can let you down.

TLJ started off in my top 3 star wars films, but subsequent watchings and then...EP ix...have catapulted it to my top spot.

6 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

TLJ started off in my top 3 star wars films, but subsequent watchings and then...EP ix...have catapulted it to my top spot.

I liked the part where Poe did a Talon Roll.

Just now, Boom Owl said:

I liked the part where Poe did a Talon Roll.

I liked that part, too.