3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:Not viable in extended.
One of the worst matchups is against Boba, and Boba dominated hyperspace. So, basically no 5A around since January.
Doesn't that make 5A better in extended where there are lesser Bobas? Luckly for me we are fiercely pro extended here in Italy
Since they confirmed point change, my 5a try will probably be postponed anyaway
26 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:Doesn't that make 5A better in extended where there are lesser Bobas? Luckly for me we are fiercely pro extended here in Italy
Since they confirmed point change, my 5a try will probably be postponed anyaway
Haha no, extended is so much worse for 5A. The only silver lining is crackshot
On the topic of dice variance:
take a look at PhilGCs latest batrep. It was a 0.6% chance to kill Nomlumb with the two attacks he did. He had a 19% chance overall. The game ends right there. How is that a fun way to test your list idea?
19% is not extreme enough to make it worthless. But it requires him to take decisions and spend tokens. The 0.5% did not. That's my point. Decisions and 15-85% chances are fun. 0.5% chances are not.
Edited by GreenDragoonYou sure on that 19%? I ran it through the dice calculator and came up with 39.5% chance to do at least 9 hits from all four attacks and that's without being able to account for crackshot. Which is very much at the obviously can't rely on it happening but not a surprise at all that it does. And given that neither of his other two ships got shots that round and his opponent was shooting Lulo likely anyway then it makes absolutely no difference whether or not Nom is killed in two shots or four.
9 minutes ago, Destraint said:You sure on that 19%? I ran it through the dice calculator and came up with 39.5% chance to do at least 9 hits from all four attacks and that's without being able to account for crackshot. Which is very much at the obviously can't rely on it happening but not a surprise at all that it does. And given that neither of his other two ships got shots that round and his opponent was shooting Lulo likely anyway then it makes absolutely no difference whether or not Nom is killed in two shots or four.
No, thanks. Also, see the edit from before you replied. The 19% for 3 shots, or 39% including the range 3 Cova are not the problem. Not spending modifications on attacks is. Cova had no alternative shot, and his choice of attack order also didn't give him any option for the 3rd shot. So, Nom going down is ok - costing a crackshot, a procket, and an offensive focus. I'm not commenting on the oppoent's choices because it was less than ideal.
You can't joust 200 points of Scum with 140 points of Awings and come out ahead. That should not be possible, and mainly variance (plus some poor choices) made it possible.
A rookie pilot should not take down a Death Star, nor an Awing bring down a Super Star destroyer, neither a Hammerhead take down 2 Star Destroyers.
Please keep math away from my SW, txs.
Edited by LUZ_TAK39 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:You can't joust 200 points of Scum with 140 points of Awings and come out ahead. That should not be possible, and mainly variance (plus some poor choices) made it possible.
or is it the points costs which are wrong?
12 minutes ago, svelok said:or is it the points costs which are wrong?
I can only hope that you are joking
55 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:You can't joust 200 points of Scum with 140 points of Awings and come out ahead. That should not be possible, and mainly variance (plus some poor choices) made it possible.
That's initiative for you.
But it isn't just variance.
A better move from Nom, and this never happens.
Meanwhile, on the attack side: This is a Proton Rocket plus a coordinate invested, plus two ships with no other targets. It was a whole-list effort obscured by the fact that this one time, it got there in two attacks.
Here's where I wish the dice calc still had Crack Shot (have to simulate with Juke/Evade and putting L'ulo last), but as I plug it in, I see a 49% chance of a kill on Nom Lum.
3 dice Heroic Cova (+1 defense die), 5 dice Heroic Focus/Lock Zizi, 3 dice Heroic/Optics Tallie, 4 dice Heroic/Optics/Crack L'ulo.
16 minutes ago, svelok said:or is it the points costs which are wrong?
Spike damage seems really hard to account for. A double-mod-from-coordinate PRocket to the face is a really game-changing attack that can easily out-value it's point cost, but getting the opportunity to use burst upgrades like Proton Rockets isn't always easy on table.
Again: Nom going down is not the point.
13 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:Not viable in extended.
One of the worst matchups is against Boba, and Boba dominated hyperspace. So, basically no 5A around since January.
Is it?
Like, I figured 5A wrecks Boba/Fenn. 2 die guns DO hit Boba, the nimbleness and rear arc of the A wings keep Fenn on his toes, and 3 agility means Boba is generally only paper cutting you. You should also be able to make it so he only has 1 ship r1 a round at most, and whatever ship he does damage can run around afterwards.
Boba and other stuff I can see being problematic however.
Idk, with my triple silencers I had some fear of Boba but thought he's been more overhyped over what he 'can do' as opposed to what he actually does. Because he does take damage, even with rerolls, and even with Slave 1 can be corralled.
2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:Again: Nom going down is not the point.
I guess I don't understand what point you're trying to make.
From looking over the article, the board, it looks to me like PhilGC essentially had an alpha-strike list that invested an entire turn into killing one ship, and was able to, at least in part because the opponent dialed in some suboptimal moves (Nom put himself into L'ulo's bullseye, and self-blocked one Starviper, and forced the other Starviper to stress itself, and maybe could have blocked L'ulo if dialing in something else). Second turn there are some bad moves, too, with a failed Barrel Roll leading to another self-block, which is two ships losing actions, and that's going to be pretty bad. Meanwhile, 4-LOM was a little bit lost-in-space, getting only poor quality shots.
Really doesn't look like a variance ruin to me. If I'm using the calc right, there's a 49% chance of success. What this looks like to me, well, is kinda 1e. High-initiative highly-modded attacks that, if the defender makes a mistake in opening maneuvers, lead to a ship being taken off the board, and the game over before it starts. Against front-loaded damage, a few mistakes with actions and dials can foreclose on a game really quick.
I mean, to quote the article, Phil felt the joust was the right strategy...
QuoteI think the key point in the game was the initial joust. I knew it would favour me but then the dice backed it up. Without that key blocking ship on the table Kevin’s game plan had to change a bit and it took a couple of turns for his more powerful guns to begin pushing damage through while my more consistent guns just kept ticking over.
I guess it's easy to imagine an alternate way it could have happened, Nom Lumb escapes at 1 health, L'ulo doesn't. That would indeed make a pretty big difference in the course of the game. If I'm using the damage calc right again ( http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi/?d=ggAAAAAAAAAA&a1=MQAAAAAAAAAA&a2=MQgAAAAABAAA&a3=MUAAAAAgAAAA&a4=MQAAAAAAAAAA ), then L'ulo has about a 47% chance to die if Nom lives. Without Nom, it's close to 27%.
Also, to the point: Phil says himself that he thinks most of these cards are too cheap. I get the devs desire to make certain powerful combos work, it just gets tricky pricing them right.
21 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:Also, to the point: Phil says himself that he thinks most of these cards are too cheap. I get the devs desire to make certain powerful combos work, it just gets tricky pricing them right.
Zizi probably.
Optics and Crack Shot maybe. Crack Shot is potent for the cost, and wicked ubiquitous. Optics, however, hasn't really been stellar outside of A-Wings, so I'm hesitant to think it and not the A-wings should go up. A few FO ships use it. Kylo does, and Kylo not Optics seems like the issue. Fanatical Silencers sometimes take Optics, and again, problem seems more with Fanatical. As much as I've liked flying Optics SFs, they haven't really been successful. Part of that is A-Wings being so much better, due to the boost. It wouldn't be the end of the world for Optics to go up (it's one of few tools someone can use for boosting their red dice), but I keep thinking the problem isn't with Optics but the ships that take it.
I have a harder time with Heroic. Mathematically, it doesn't make that big of a difference. Half-a-health to a T-70. But that's still pretty good for 1 point, and it *can* work an unlimited number of times. Very small effects that are always on can add up. Or can do nothing. The fact that it triggers when you have the worst rolls seems hard-wired to fake us out psychologically. At 2 points, I think it'd probably never get taken. But at 1 point, it crowds out any other Talents for Resistance...
Edited by theBitterFig1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:I guess I don't understand what point you're trying to make.
5 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:19% is not extreme enough to make it worthless. But it requires him to take decisions and spend tokens. The 0.5% did not. That's my point. Decisions and 15-85% chances are fun. 0.5% chances are not.
5 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:The 19% for 3 shots, or 39% including the range 3 Cova are not the problem. Not spending modifications on attacks is. [...] So, Nom going down is ok - costing a crackshot, a procket, and an offensive focus.
Any further conclusion drawn from the game is rather worthless anyway. Maybe the list is a great idea, maybe not. Maybe Prockets Zizi is a great idea, maybe not. We can't tell from this game, at all. That ties into an earlier point, how extreme games are neither useful nor interesting. Extreme dice are just one prominent case, but rare maneuver mistakes are another one. For example:
1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:Out of those outcomes, there's a 3/8 chance of a great outcome, 3/8 for a mediocre outcome (both live or both die), and a 2/8 for a bad outcome. That doesn't seem too out of line for a good-but-risky strategy.
That's relying entirely on several blunders by the opponent.
And that ties back into this comment:
Edited by GreenDragoonOn 6/26/2020 at 9:11 PM, GreenDragoon said:
- Do you get bailed out despite making a mistake?
- Do you get punished despite making the right call?
- Do you get roughly what you deserve based on the choices (hidden info part and taken actions)?
1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:But at 1 point, it crowds out any other Talents for Resistance...
I think it's fine that faction-specific talents are more efficient than generic ones. I love that fanatical, fearless, and heroic are often default choices in their faction. Faction flavor is tasty to me!
43 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:I love that fanatical, fearless, and heroic are often default choices in their faction.
Fearless is the "default" choice on one ship in the faction, unlike the other 2...
3 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:Fearless is the "default" choice on one ship in the faction, unlike the other 2...
Fair, but at least in hyper, it's default on fangs and most talented firespray.
Shame that it's useless on a lot of ships. Maybe Fugitives and Collaborators could come with a different flavor of faction talent. Something to reflect not the guns-blazing bravado of Fearless, but maybe the double-dealing trickery of the criminal underworld...and cam be used by non-front-arc-primary ships like the jump, falcon, yv-666, etc.
On 5/27/2020 at 12:41 PM, Darth Meanie said:You called?
How the game was/is created in an integral part of what the game is. One of the things I like about tossing my ideas up here is to see how well they stand up. I actually learn a lot by posting my imaginations.
Basically you answered your own question.
Also, I guess I'd rather see folks post "this is my idea for a new ship we don't have" than "c'mon FFG, make this ship I want." The former at least takes a little initiative on the topic.
I miss seeing @weisguy119 out here. His campaign-level creations and imaginings are what I really enjoy. Somebody who is playing XWM outside the box.
Hey, @Darth Meanie what’s up? Been a while. I still have a couple unfinished missions that I kind of gave up on when 2.0 dropped. Is there still any interest in 1.0 or did everyone move on? I have too much stuff to convert to move to 2.0, although I could probably do my Felucia mission with a minimal amount of conversion kits. Right now, I’ve been occupied with a renewed passion for 3.75” Star Wars action figure collecting and have dabbled in classic Planet of the Apes stuff. Mostly Sideshow Collectibles related stuff for POTA. Made some custom stuff and what not. Got a lot of projects going that got stalled by summer.
Edited by weisguy119some of the new points already leaked, Crabbok rushed out a video cataloging and analyzing them here
Edited by Kyle Ren9 hours ago, Ablazoned said:Fair, but at least in hyper, it's default on fangs and most talented firespray.
Shame that it's useless on a lot of ships. Maybe Fugitives and Collaborators could come with a different flavor of faction talent. Something to reflect not the guns-blazing bravado of Fearless, but maybe the double-dealing trickery of the criminal underworld...and cam be used by non-front-arc-primary ships like the jump, falcon, yv-666, etc.
Maybe something like "Vindictive": After being damaged by another ship may take a stress to gain a lock on it. 5 points?
12 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:That's relying entirely on several blunders by the opponent.
Game still looks like the opponent blundered and was punished for it--a bit more than usual, but not anything outrageous.
12 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:Any further conclusion drawn from the game is rather worthless anyway. Maybe the list is a great idea, maybe not. Maybe Prockets Zizi is a great idea, maybe not. We can't tell from this game, at all.
Well, we know it can punish blunders. That's often a worthwhile goal for a list, and something which has been long-established as a reasonable kind of list for making a cut (but losing post-cut)
So what's your hopes for new points?
What random thing will be raised/lowered for no reason? Will imperial aces still be one of the 2 top extended archetypes like they have been since 2.0? Will it be the death of droids swarms? What thing will spawn the next "NPE" thread?
By myself I hope to see Discord missiles getting the supnat treatment, passive sensors get scaled by ps and Rey playble in HS
then if they also gut whisper, raise a bit sloane, boba and all smal base force users too I won't be sad
3 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:So what's your hopes for new points?
Fix Boba, then since this season doesn’t matter too much give the 2 point Leia treatment to something that is good but people haven’t tried because it’s considered too expensive.
2 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:What random thing will be raised/lowered for no reason? Will imperial aces still be one of the 2 top extended archetypes like they have been since 2.0? Will it be the death of droids swarms? What thing will spawn the next "NPE" thread?
I hope we get 50 point TIE Silencers, then everyone hates it, then they get nerfed back to 51.
3 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:passive sensors get scaled by ps
I'd rather FFG bites the bullet and creates a ban-list and just bans them on Vader. There's no where other than Vader where they're a problem. Someone will say "Whisper with Fifth Brother!" but honestly, would Targeting Computer really be any different? To that end, I'd just errata Passive Sensors to require a Lock action on the ship. 