1 minute ago, DoubleDown11 said:

I really enjoy flying this Rey, incidentally. Am I the baddie? 😅

Easy question: do you exclusively play forward arc generics without upgrades or reposition? If you do then you're ok. Possibily. If you don't then... look at the skull on your cap, I mean the Whisper or Rey on your list.

I fly honest jousters, I promise. Other than a teensy tiny 2-straight forward or sideways reposition in the System phase (barely even worth mentioning), they're as plain a jouster as you could ask for. Practically just X-Wings, really!

14 minutes ago, DoubleDown11 said:

The interactions are a bit much and I don't think I'd trust myself to play it for a whole Swiss and not start forgetting triggers by round 5 or 6. Or 2.

The Rose trigger while defending is by far the easiest to forget.

11 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Easy question: do you exclusively play forward arc generics without upgrades or reposition? If you do then you're ok. Possibily. If you don't then... look at the skull on your cap, I mean the Whisper or Rey on your list.

What if I play I1 jousters with one upgrade each (besides foils) that really can't be blocked, like ever, because they're kind of supernatural?

Just now, gennataos said:

The Rose trigger while defending is by far the easiest to forget.

What if I play I1 jousters with one upgrade each (besides foils) that really can't be blocked, like ever, because they're kind of supernatural?

easy, one =/= none. Not ok.

Oh come on....dont tell me yall think anyones asking for No Upgrade i1 Only Jousting lists....

2.0 de-escalated the power level of turrets, bombs, and AOE.

Is anyone really so surprised that there are constant calls to nerf the living **** out of heavily (2) upgraded passive mod repositioning i5/i6 aces?

Upgrades are the enemy because they generally make already fantastic undercosted crazy mobile pieces even more capable on the joust.

Trip Ace Jousters have 100% owned 2.0 since it was introduced, for the record I consider Boba/Fenn a Trip Ace list to. The only exception was Sun Fac with Ensnare.

I wont even listen to arguments that CIS Swarm has been near that archetypes power level. It hasnt, its only good because players are bad.

We could go the 1.0 Powerhouse AOE or Control route if thats preferred.

Or just give all i1-i4 ships access to 0 Pt LRS Proton Torpedo. Id sign up for that solution in a heart beat.

what, you're surprised that hyperbole is met with hyperbole?

52 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

X-Wing is fun because there is a bit more than just setting the dial. There can be too much "more", obviously.

Im not surprised. Its refreshing actually 🙂

Also to re-iterate if we are going the Upgrades are Friend route I badly want 0 point Long Range Scanners back and single digit cost Proton Torps for i1-i4.

Less than 2 weeks until the European Space Jam! I've seen quite some interesting practice lists on TTS! Let us revel in the possibility of a new meta development, only for LA to revert to netdecking!

7 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Also to re-iterate if we are going the Upgrades are Friend route I badly want 0 point Long Range Scanners back and single digit cost Proton Torps for i1-i4.

I just wish we could have 360° turrets with boost and GhostFenn back. /s

Because I'm curious, going with my current lists: 6 upgrades on 5 ships, 11 upgrades on 8 ships, 6 upgrades on 4 ships, 6 upgrades on 4 ships (2x sfoils), 7 upgrades on 3 ships (Rey...), 4 upgrades on 3 ships, 7 upgrades on 3 ships (Vader Soontir HomieBro), 1 upgrade on 7 ships.

It's not the number. Oli's aces has 4 upgrades on 3 ships ffs. I don't know why you want to focus on the number.

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

It's not the number. Oli's aces has 4 upgrades on 3 ships ffs. I don't know why you want to focus on the number.

Just because its a really easy way to get people thinking/talking about it.

And I would gladly argue that 4 upgrades is way to many for a 655 or 665 or 555 list.

32 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Just because its a really easy way to get people thinking/talking about it.

And I would gladly argue that 4 upgrades is way to many for a 655 or 665 or 555 list.

You're preaching to the choir for those who think about it, and met with confusion or rejection for the rest, and imo that is in part because of that simplification.

I'm on the same team for what you aim for. There should probably not be a 665 list with any upgrades at all. But that's not really because of the upgrades. For example, this should be close to 200. With the decision between the force or two of the passives.

It's throwing out the child with the bathwater (is that an expression in English?) to demand no upgrades as @Chumbalaya did. Or whatever plausible deniability hides between this

1 hour ago, Chumbalaya said:

Upgrades are the Great Satan.

4 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Upgrades are the Great Satan.

I agree.

see, not helping. You can't constantly torpedo your attempts of really interesting discussion with these extreme overstatements.

33 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Just because its a really easy way to get people thinking/talking about it.

Not at all, though. I think trying to fixate on the number of upgrades leads to folks vastly missing the point, and the discussion of the power level of Init 5/6 passive mods goes wildly off course.

It winds up being an easy way to get folks thinking/talking about something else entirely.

//

Speaking of off to the side, Fangs are a horrible example for this, since they're Init 4 ships, single-not-double-reposition but with linked focus, and passive mods on both attack and defense that work while stressed or blocked or such. I love Fangs, but they're not a great example of X-Wing with all the excess stripped away.

5 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I love Fangs, but they're not a great example of X-Wing with all the excess stripped away.

Boy are they not that. They have a simple, powerful mantra of "if you can't get in, get out". That's it. And if they do get in?...they're pretty gross.

Alright, I have been convinced. Upgrades are friend.

Anakin Skywalker — Delta-7 Aethersprite62

R2 Astromech9

Delta-7B20

Ship Total: 91

Half Points: 46 Threshold: 3

Obi-Wan Kenobi — Delta-7 Aethersprite48

Calibrated Laser Targeting4

Ship Total: 52

Half Points: 26 Threshold: 2

Plo Koon — Delta-7 Aethersprite44

Calibrated Laser Targeting4

Ship Total: 48

Half Points: 24 Threshold: 2

Whats the best version of the above list?

🙄

also 7b Ani with chopper is an example of a horrible 2 upgrade+pilot combination

It’s not upgrades that are the problem, it’s ships - whenever something has been a problem in 1.0 or 2.0 it’s been on a ship of some kind. I’d like to see a format with no ships allowed, just upgrade cards.

1 hour ago, Stay OT Leader said:

It’s not upgrades that are the problem, it’s ships - whenever something has been a problem in 1.0 or 2.0 it’s been on a ship of some kind. I’d like to see a format with no ships allowed, just upgrade cards.

Make some sort of TCG mashup where you play with a deck of upgrade cards.

Fort Extended

Don't know who that's aimed at, because I vastly prefer hyperspace

The tallest free-standing house of cards measured 7.86 m (25 feet 9 7/16 inches) and was built by Bryan Berg (USA) on 16 October 2007 in Dallas, Texas, USA. The record was attempted during the annual State Fair of Texas. Byan also holds the record for largest playing card structure

14 hours ago, Stay OT Leader said:

Just bring more Scyks. The more dangerous control arcs you can bring at R3 the harder the aces find it. They can avoid R1 of 4-LOM, and a Kihraxz at R3 is just a damage card if something sneaks through, while a tractor Scyk at R3 is a massive threat. Plus it's 2 more bases for blocking. 2 Tractor Scyks, 3 Ion Scyks, 2 naked Scyks (or 1 Autoblaster Scyk, 1 Mining TIE).

It just takes one block from 4-LOM into a killbox for Vader and suddenly it's just Whisper and GI against 5 or 4 ships(if I lose a scyk in the engagement). Or likewise block against GI. Whisper being blocked is unlikely, but Whisper only has 2 green dice when uncloaked, spreading arcs will tag her eventually if she lacks backup.

There's other compostions I could use too, Seevor's fun to bring. Could fit another good blocker alongside 4-LOM.

Something like this would be a hoot:

4-LOM (49)
Intimidation (3)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Mist Hunter (1)

Ship total: 63 Half Points: 32 Threshold: 5

Nom Lumb (38)
Dengar (6)
Feedback Array (3)

Ship total: 47 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 5

Captain Seevor (30)
Intimidation (3)

Ship total: 33 Half Points: 17 Threshold: 2

Sol Sixxa (46)
Intimidation (3)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Seismic Charges (3)

Ship total: 57 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 5


Total: 200

9 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

🙄

also 7b Ani with chopper is an example of a horrible 2 upgrade+pilot combination

Add a side of Lumi for real filth. It's so wholesome to tell your opponent, "Well done, you've trapped me in your arc. You now have no mod and you need to roll a minimum of 2 hits to even make me roll defence dice."

16 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

X-Wing is fun because there is a bit more than just setting the dial. There can be too much "more", obviously. But I wouldn't want to play 4Fangs vs 5X vs 8 TIEs all day. #EnlightenedCentrism because the ideal/truth lies rarely at the extreme ends

Look at the Witcher 3 as an example. You can keep your endgame character and restart the whole game. Because it's fun to have more options available.

The early game **** is a thing. I'm not saying a lvl20 DnD5e char is most fun, I think levels 5-10 are the most interesting ones. Because there is more to do than just that one basic thing, and not yet a book full of OP ****.