12 minutes ago, gennataos said:

How was it determined Extended won? Serious question.

Everyone knows dank tank is the most serious competitive event ever, and it's extended. /s

Serious: Many of the events running now aren't even hyperspace or extended. I've seen a ton of alternate formats (Jank Tank, Top Gun, Skirmish etc.) Of course people are playing extended tournaments too, we haven't had any IRL ones yet to scratch that itch. There are also many players who prefer hyperspace as their competitive format. The point is that people are playing a huge variety of formats, and it would be ridiculous to call a format "dead" or declare one the most popular.

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

It's not about list building, it's about embracing the broken stuff. Why do people cheat in single player games? Because sometimes it's just fun to play with something OP. As long as there is an actual competitive format, the ridiculous things in extended can have their spot. A dead hyperspace would mean a dead competitive X-Wing, and I'm not willing to let it go.

You sound as if everyone playing&enjoying extended would play high inititative aces when everyone else is miserable while palying?! My extended squads are half aces (FO/Imps) and half not (Rey, Sloaneswarm). All fun to play for an afternoon or day, definitely not fun in a highly competitive event.

Why don't we all take a break from the doom&gloom.

The whole hyperspace only hype has used so much negative and honestly false information about extended (there are certain facts for instance that are true to hyper and extended, that are said to be extended only) that this is exactly the result of sowing such misinformation.

Nothing wrong with pushing hyperspace, but it was wrong for some to push it the way they did, especially with a lot of false logic/information. Like the whole points change analogous to hyperspace analogous to balance. Heck no, that's completely wrong. Extended along with considerations to Hyperspace and Epic are what drive point changes. And balance isn't even really logically a part of that sentence yet.

Worlds 2021 should be hyperspace only.

1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

Worlds 2021 should be hyperspace only.

cry harder?

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

It's not about list building, it's about embracing the broken stuff. Why do people cheat in single player games? Because sometimes it's just fun to play with something OP.

I think you've actually hit on it exactly here. People who play extended act like they're playing a 1-player game

7 minutes ago, Kyle Ren said:

I think you've actually hit on it exactly here. People who play extended act like they're playing a 1-player game

he really said the quiet part out loud

19 minutes ago, RStan said:

All online structured events are extended format and the majority community hasn't batted an eye. I've only seen about 1% of the community that are sad about it and wonder where hyperspace went.

Aside from the Space Jam, what has there been? Why'd GSP and FB choose Extended?

5 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Aside from the Space Jam, what has there been? Why'd GSP and FB choose Extended?

there was a point about three weeks ago where there were five different leagues/tournaments going on I could have been part of that were all extended. One of them was a local league, but the others were TMK, Top Gun, Kyber Cup, and XWVT. since then I haven't seen a single hyperspace event that I didn't run.

8 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Aside from the Space Jam, what has there been? Why'd GSP and FB choose Extended?

XVT, Kyber Cup, and more to come. Granted XVT rotates so that helps. I understand why Jank Tank used extended, I'm not against Jank Tank at all as nobody was allowed to build their own squad anyway. Dion I assume made most of the decision on Space Jam being extended because that's what the majority of his audience likes and figured even if some competitive players preferred Hyperspace that they would still likely show an interest in playing since there's nothing else going on (me as an example since I prefer hyperspace).

I figured the answer(s) would be something like that. I'd imagine people who feel really strongly one way or another will either run their own thing and/or not participate in other events.

59 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Worlds 2021 should be hyperspace only.

I second this. Alternate the Worlds formats a la what we were seeing with the SOS. Also sort of how this forum goes back and forth between panicking about the meta and being Fort Hyperspace.

Worlds 2020 should be hyperspace.

Worlds 2020 should be limited edition, con exclusive ships only.

1 hour ago, Kyle Ren said:

I think you've actually hit on it exactly here. People who play extended act like they're playing a 1-player game

Because everyone who plays extended plays the most broken list they possibly can to make people miserable? Maybe it's your local scene that's toxic.

I find that hyperspace is where you find the hyper-competitive only lists. Extended also has jank, where's the jank in hyperspace? It's mostly been streamlined away.

I miss flying my jank lists against imperial aces and beating the snot out of them. Hyperspace feels like a hyper-efficiency, hyper-meta-list format, no gimmicks, just raw math, and it gets old, fast.

3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Xwing is mostly non-existent now. Why do you want to paint Hyperspace as dead game?

This.

To me, looked like a curated Hyperspace format never got a full test, due to in-person gaming shutting down.

If online play has mostly been Extended, I'm not sure it's because folks tried HS and hated it, or because it's a silly-season of online X-Wing during the apocalypse, well, maybe we shouldn't view that as a truly representative.

Now, it's possible Hyperspace isn't going to make it. Maybe COVID killed the momentum of the grand Hyperspace experiment, and it'll be Extended Season before anyone starts playing over the board anymore.

If we're going straight into Extended Season, I'm hoping the June points update (if that even happens) has some actual Extended balance updates to it, since it felt like FFG really kicked the can down the road in January, and didn't do pretty much anything to adjust balance on over-performing ships that weren't in Hyperspace.

6 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

some actual Extended balance updates

Aka massive point increases to basically all i5 and i6 aces. And essentially pricing out most of the upgrade cards they band from hyper and a few they didnt.

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Aka massive point increases to basically all i5 and i6 aces. And essentially pricing out most of the cards they band from hyper.

Well now, I don't necessarily agree with that last part.

I think the best aspect of Hyperspace was the ability to remove things from a competitive scene, without adding absurd pricing to them.

I'm with you in a preference for more Hyperspace, to see that aspect of the game get a fair shake when, like, there isn't a deadly virus going around.

1 hour ago, Mattman7306 said:

he really said the quiet part out loud

I've been saying that for a long time, nothing quiet about it on my part.

4 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Well now, I don't necessarily agree with that last part.

I think the best aspect of Hyperspace was the ability to remove things from a competitive scene, without adding absurd pricing to them.

I'm with you in a preference for more Hyperspace, to see that aspect of the game get a fair shake when, like, there isn't a deadly virus going around.

Hyper can do that. Extended cant. A “good” version of extended requires sadly aggressive increases to the most problematic cards. Its a bit of a mess, but it would essentially equate to a pt based ban list internal to the format similar to supernatural.

as a supernatural reflexes player I have to say it's among the worst game mechanics I've ever seen and needs to be priced out of existence. it is still very playable on i5 and i6 ships and that's bad.

also force in general is a garbage game mechanic. I'm not talking game balance, I'm just talking game design. there's no risk/reward, it's just always on and that's boring.

hyperspace has plenty of force users too I guess so that's independent of the format argument, but nonetheless boom is right that if a banlist doesn't exist (i.e. we're playing extended) some stuff needs to be priced out of existence.

there's also a long list of stuff I forgot about because of hyperspace that is terribly designed and I have no interest in playing with/against

advanced sensors guri, advanced sensors protorps redline, Soontir, whisper (esp. with force crew), Vader crew, Sloane, the list goes on and on

1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

Hyper can do that. Extended cant. A good version of extended requires sadly aggressive increases to the most problematic cards. Its a bit of a mess.

I guess what I'm getting at is that, if FFG just increased the points cost of everything not in Hyperspace by 5 points, I think that'd be really bad for the game.

But it's possible that my preferred solution--more Hyperspace--isn't viable.

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I guess what I'm getting at is that, if FFG just increased the points cost of everything not in Hyperspace by 5 points, I think that'd be really bad for the game.

But it's possible that my preferred solution--more Hyperspace--isn't viable.

Oh yea def more targeted than that. Still the overlap of cards they band and cards that need big point increases is pretty significant. Gets even messier with more upgrades in the mix with ships like Vader etc.

Other examples include....Soontir Fel.

Its possible upgrades are to cheap in general regardless of format. Game gets alot better with less of them in lists.

Maybe the answer is to stop talking about hyper and just start asking for extremely expensive upgrades again?

a lot of people don't seem to get that it's not just about competitive play

hyperspace is the only casual format I want to play, too

HS vs Extended is miserably unrepresentative of your actual nuanced views.

As is win by card combo vs die by dial, which is preposterously simplistic.

There are many soft card combos that actually keep quite a lot of ships and pilots usable, where they would otherwise be gathering dust. When combined with dialling important things

There are only so many variations of ' dial 2 hard, throw 3 red dice, throw 3 green dice'.