20 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Only legitimate changes to that have been Republic Regen Aces and Sun Fac.

Yeah. For a while, when I wanted to feel like I was playing old school Palp Aces, the list I was flying was actually triple 7b (which is still probably quite good?).

Re Vader Soontir GI, I think I've just been scarred by too many Soontir games where the one misplay (or even the one calculated risk) results in a dead Soontir and a list that might not have the firepower any longer to win before time. Vader deals a lot of damage, but it's Whisper that wins those Oli Aces games, in my experience anyway.

I forgot to include Duchess as another example of a GrInq replacement, but Duchess sans some of her better/crutch upgrades (especially Fifth Bro, but also Afterburners or even a Shield Upgrade, and an actual bid) feels too scary for me. I'm way too terrible at this game to fly ships without a fairly generous tolerance for error.

27 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Spoiler, bring i5 and i6 passive mod mobile ships. We dont really need any data to know that extended is essentially the same game that it has always been. If you just want to make cut bring a good joust list and watch people joust you.

Checks out.

I shut things down completely once Adepticon was cancelled. Some of our locals did an extended TTS league, to which I didn't pay much attention. I poked my head in to see what shook out to make the cut...top of swiss was the runner up to the Warfaire Weekend Grands running his same Jedi list. I reflexively turtled back up.

I did end up getting TTS, though. A fair amount of our locals are using it and I do miss the game.

I think I'm less jaded on the meta in general as some of you guys! There were a few really interesting lists that made cut as well. 5xInquisitor (4xForesight, 1 Sense) and Vader/Soontir/Fifth Bro both made cut. Torkil/Seevor/Torani/Dalan Oberos made Top 8. Ani/Padme/Luminara/Wolffe also made cut, which shocks me as I flew Padme for a very small tournament once and it was the least pleasant experience I have ever had with a ship in X-Wing.

I've played against a few different 4 ship Scum lists lately featuring some combination of Torkil, Seevor, Torani, Sol, Jostero, Koshka, and Nom Lumb. I find them pretty challenging to deal with. Target priority vs available targets is interesting sometimes, and there are always a ton of triggers to track/forget and get wrecked by. Torani especially seems to be able to do a lot of work.

49 minutes ago, DoubleDown11 said:

Also incidentally, despite being a filthy despicable bandwagon-jumping netlister, I did spend some games experimenting with adjustments and variations to his list but never found anything that was satisfyingly better.

I agree.

But I settled on two other imp ace squads that are more fun, anyway: Vader Soontir and either Redline or 5th Bro. I should probably rethink my idea of fun...

That's really interesting @GreenDragoon, Homing Missiles Fifth Bro struck me as a gimmick build that wouldn't have legs. I think I've flown against it precisely once and found it really annoying but overall manageable. I expect my knee jerk reaction to this build might be wrong, though. How have you (or anyone else) found it in practice? How are you using him and how are your opponents playing against him?

14 minutes ago, DoubleDown11 said:

That's really interesting @GreenDragoon, Homing Missiles Fifth Bro struck me as a gimmick build that wouldn't have legs. I think I've flown against it precisely once and found it really annoying but overall manageable. I expect my knee jerk reaction to this build might be wrong, though. How have you (or anyone else) found it in practice? How are you using him and how are your opponents playing against him?

As an anti-ace piece that suddenly loses all bite when the ace has more than 4 hp. It's situationally handy and a more fun/more reliable version of 7th Sister, and overall, even in weaker situations as in facing high hp targets, gives you 2 auto-hits, which is more than a lot of 3 die ships can claim.

@Boom Owl

"I'll make my own Pick 3, with high tech and cosplayers!"

Major Vonreg (57)
Crack Shot (1)
Afterburners (6)

Ship total: 64 Half Points: 32 Threshold: 2

"Quickdraw" (45)
Fanatical (2)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Fire-Control System (2)

Ship total: 59 Half Points: 30 Threshold: 3

"Blackout" (63)
Lone Wolf (5)

Ship total: 68 Half Points: 34 Threshold: 3


Total: 191

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=First Order&d=v8ZsZ200Z381X116WWW105Y243X181WWW182W113WY237X124WWW&sn=New Squadron&obs=

Probably worse than dropping burners to upgrade to Kylo and less than a bid, and still probably worse than Empire pick 3, but it seems fun due to not being explored as much. And I legit think that Burners >>>>>>>>>>>> Regen on Vonreg (as good as Deuterium is as training wheels for knowing when to disengage and a fair version of regen by costing 2 slots, 9pt, and any semblance of free information you might have), as it makes him fly a lot more like a proper Soontir, even if for 2 turns.

9 minutes ago, DoubleDown11 said:

How have you (or anyone else) found it in practice? How are you using him and how are your opponents playing against him?

So most of my games I did it wrong. He shouldn't even play until midgame is my current position. Fullhealth Vader shrugs it off. 3hp Vader panicks.

His dial and passives create a huge nogo zone for any ace that lost a single shield.

By the way, when I have you guys here, copied from another thread:

I would love this opportunity to get some input. When I hear strategy in the context of X-Wing, here is what I think about:

• Meta analysis
• List choice, counterbuilds
• to understand your own list's strengths and weaknesses in general, and in specific matchups
• to asses your opponent's list for their strengths and weaknesses, and deriving target priorities
• To formulate a game plan with few branches, depending on your opponent's choices
• Turn 0, including obstacle selection, obstacle placement, ship placement, openings
• Openings gets a second mention:
  • against general list archetypes (e.g. swarms, arcdodger lists, jousters)
  • against specific lists (currently: Droid swarm, BoFrost, 5X, ...)
  • the first 2-3 turns with some alternatives/ways to react to a small number of choices by your opponent
  • The first engagement: where and how?
  • The first engagement + 1 turn: what next?

That's what I consider strategy in X-wing.

Arguably, only the first four really count, but I'd like it to be useful and applicable. A similar list for tactics is too long (see @Boom Owl's tactic central) or more abstract.

54 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

Major Vonreg (57)
Crack Shot (1)
Afterburners (6)

Ship total: 64 Half Points: 32 Threshold: 2

"Quickdraw" (45)
Fanatical (2)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Fire-Control System (2)

Ship total: 59 Half Points: 30 Threshold: 3

"Blackout" (63)
Lone Wolf (5)

Ship total: 68 Half Points: 34 Threshold: 3


Total: 191

Terrible list. Its extended, bring real aces. If your interested in FO bring Kylo. Maybe Holo and Tavson, but I have my doubts when that can just be Vader + 2 instead.

1 hour ago, DoubleDown11 said:

I think I'm less jaded on the meta in general as some of you guys! There were a few really interesting lists that made cut as well. 5xInquisitor (4xForesight, 1 Sense) and Vader/Soontir/Fifth Bro both made cut. Torkil/Seevor/Torani/Dalan Oberos made Top 8. Ani/Padme/Luminara/Wolffe also made cut, which shocks me as I flew Padme for a very small tournament once and it was the least pleasant experience I have ever had with a ship in X-Wing.

I've played against a few different 4 ship Scum lists lately featuring some combination of Torkil, Seevor, Torani, Sol, Jostero, Koshka, and Nom Lumb. I find them pretty challenging to deal with. Target priority vs available targets is interesting sometimes, and there are always a ton of triggers to track/forget and get wrecked by. Torani especially seems to be able to do a lot of work.

Lots of irrelevant interesting things make cut. This is normal. Doesn't change the optimization puzzle at all. Its still “You Pick 3”.

Im glad people are still having fun. I just hope the fact that 90% of players build extended lists based on self imposed ban lists doesn’t impact peoples perception of whats undercosted.

41 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

• Turn 0, including obstacle selection, obstacle placement, ship placement, openings
• Openings gets a second mention:
  • against general list archetypes (e.g. swarms, arcdodger lists, jousters)
  • against specific lists (currently: Droid swarm, BoFrost, 5X, ...)
  • the first 2-3 turns with some alternatives/ways to react to a small number of choices by your opponent

I think Turn 0 is way less interesting and useful than Turn 1-3. Before and importantly immediately after first engage.

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I think Turn 0 is way less interesting and useful than Turn 1-3. Before and importantly immediately after first engage.

Yeah now that you mention it, these two were missing:

• The first engagement: where and how?
• The first engagement + 1 turn: what next?

8 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I just hope the fact that 90% of players build extended lists based on self imposed ban lists doesn’t impact peoples perception of whats undercosted.

^ This ^

Also even with my success of running the "It's the Resistance" list, if I know the likely majority of the field at an event will be Trip Imp or Republic Aces, I probably don't take it again. It's unfortunately such an uphill battle even with Finn hyperspacing in a much better location than a standard starting one. Sure it's helpful that It's the Resistance is great against jousters and Separatist swarms, but when Separatists are still played at such a low percentage and other jousters can still be eaten up by the Trip Imp/Republic Aces, I don't really gain much by using that Resistance squad. It was fun for sure, but I think I'm moving on from it.

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Yeah now that you mention it, these two were missing:

• The first engagement: where and how?
• The first engagement + 1 turn: what next?

Thats basically where 80% of any tactics discussion can be had as it includes turn 0, target priority, and knowing what pts you are trying to protect for 75 minutes.

First Engage Where How and Importantly WHEN. How includes, the engage +1 question.

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Thats basically where 80% of any tactics discussion can be had as it includes turn 0, target priority, and knowing what pts you are trying to protect for 75 minutes.

First Engage Where How and Importantly WHEN. How includes, the engage +1 question.

agreed. The reason I'm splitting them explicitly is that the +1 is easily forgotten if I don't. How/when covers a lot besides the +1.

Imps have been playing pick 3 since the literal launch of 2.0 😄

Extended sucks

6 minutes ago, Chumbalaya said:

Extended sucks

True.

Round about two to three months ago, I'd ordered a TIE Aggressor model off E-Bay. After like three weeks, I keep wondering, when is the dang thing going to get here. I check my emails, to see if it has shipped yet, and not only had it shipped a week before, but had been delevered. And it was nowhere. I looked around the porch, can't find it. Bah, guess that's about $20 down the drain. Stinks, but not the end of the world.

So today the wind is blowing like mad, and I spotted a box of some kind in the driveway. Wait... could this be? And it was the TIE Aggressor. The box was so soft, the thing must have gotten stuck under a bush or whatever for the past two-ish months, and just been shaken loose by the winds today.

So now I need to make a list with two TIE Aggressors in it. Not that I'll be playing in person X-Wing for *ages* but still.

Two exactly, no more, no less. The rest of the list is open.

My first thought is two aces, two Ion Cannon Turret Aggressors. 31 points for a 3-red dice ship with 5 health and 2 greens isn't terrible. That's about what an Ion Cannon Scyk is in terms of toughness, just trading Range 3 for turret things.

Next thought is two ICT Ags, two other generics, and some ace. Two Passive/Proton Gunboats? Two Passive /x1? Two Inquisitors? Two TIE Interceptors?

Hrm. Lots of options.

Tell me the Krayt thread didn't revive just so we can do Hyperspace vs Extended again? 😞

7 minutes ago, DoubleDown11 said:

Tell me the Krayt thread didn't revive just so we can do Hyperspace vs Extended again? 😞

I mean it's a bit hard to ignore that majority of the community just ditched hyperspace totally since I've seen zero online events since the lockdown that have hosted a hyperspace format. Unfortunately the community has chosen their """"variety"""" in extended.

I've had a hard time getting in the mindset to take X-Wing seriously lately so it's just been Jank Tank random games and various takes on Aces High for me. Ironically, I've played much more often while caring less in the last month or so than I had in the previous 3 months when I was putting effort in.

46 minutes ago, DoubleDown11 said:

Tell me the Krayt thread didn't revive just so we can do Hyperspace vs Extended again? 😞

It's all "old man yells at cloud".

54 minutes ago, DoubleDown11 said:

Hyperspace vs Extended again?

Dont worry theres no “vs” there.
Hyperspace is 100% dead.

Extended won.

This is the only place on the internet that will shed a tear.

Long live the less arbitrary king