1 hour ago, LagJanson said:

Zero CIS lists

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

This is the way. Everyone talks about playing against CIS, no one actually plays them.

Seps, you gotta be good with them droids it seems.

Is there no use left for Nantex with the current nerf/tractor-rules?

2 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Is there no use left for Nantex with the current nerf/tractor-rules?

Still solid in the meme format.

I think one has to only use tractor/ensanre to put an enemy ship on a rock. Otherwise, you just get wiped out by the 90degree rotate, R1 attack.

30 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I think one has to only use tractor/ensanre to put an enemy ship on a rock. Otherwise, you just get wiped out by the 90degree rotate, R1 attack.

This. Ensnare is so pricey for the 4hp ship that if the opponent is eating a tractor R1 shot, they don't care.

Collision Afterburner Vader is still a pain in extended, ******* Hel.

3 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

This. Ensnare is so pricey for the 4hp ship that if the opponent is eating a tractor R1 shot, they don't care.

Collision Afterburner Vader is still a pain in extended, ******* Hel.

Collision Detector, that's an interesting choice.

8 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

we won it with Rebels, Republic and FO, so draw what conclusions you want.

5 R factions in 3 lists is cheating sir

On 2/29/2020 at 4:28 PM, Tlfj200 said:

I suspect what you’re seeing is people choosing to play less efficient lists for more fun.

Maybe, but, like, why would they? Do people just magically care less about winning in one format than the other?

On 2/29/2020 at 4:28 PM, Tlfj200 said:

i suspect that in extended, the gaps between S-, A-, and B- tiers are larger than hyperspace.

itd be hard for them to not be.

I hear this a lot but I really don't follow. Bigger than the gap between Boba/Fenn and Resistance 5s? Bigger than the gap between 8-ship CIS and FO ace + 4? I guess maybe but we don't have any data on it to prove for or against. What are these lists people suspect to be so very good?

On 2/29/2020 at 4:28 PM, Tlfj200 said:

We’ll see what FFG does with points balancing.

Maybe you will, but we still haven't seen what they've done yet this season, so to me it seems a little early to say that.

On 3/1/2020 at 10:07 AM, svelok said:

the 10 most common archetypes in current hyperspace make up 18.95% of all squads (four of them are scum)

the 10 most common archetypes in wave 4/5 extended made up 16.29% of all squads (five of them were empire)

Even if there's that one archetype in Extended that you just can't stand, it's as likely as not that you won't play it all day, and after that it's as likely as not that you'll only play it once (compare to HS where you're basically guaranteed to play SR Boba for 2/6 games). And that's assuming nothing changed from last season.

I still maintain that that couldn't be further from the truth though. Current Hyperspace would be very un-fun if it weren't for the simultaneous price changes that happened. Those price changes happened across the board, and just as much (if not more) in Extended as in Hyperspace.

On 3/1/2020 at 8:18 AM, GreenDragoon said:

I more think that tiers are not a good way to think about it. I prefer dynamic ranges, but my article on why is hanging since April last year

I would love to see this article, especially from you. Really enjoy your write-ups.

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Is there no use left for Nantex with the current nerf/tractor-rules?

God, I hope not.

6 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Seps, you gotta be good with them droids it seems.

Is there no use left for Nantex with the current nerf/tractor-rules?

Berwer Kret as a pocket ace + round 2 reload for a stronger "beta" strike? I mean, they're a cheap Init 5.

But, however, probably not worth two vultures.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Berwer Kret as a pocket ace + round 2 reload for a stronger "beta" strike? I mean, he's a cheap Init 5.

But, however, probably not worth two vultures.

I suspect the Nantex are still costed for the pre-rules change. Their pure value isn’t known well enough for adjustment.

Like by itself is the chassis actually worth what it costs? I doubt it.

Quick moment of appreciation for the 29 pt RZ-1 A-Wing. Being able to focus boost into R1 with a 29 pt ship is neat. Im not 100% sure yet but it might be less bad than it appears?

Any chance I can run proud tradition on one of these?

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

I suspect the Nantex are still costed for the pre-rules change. Their pure value isn’t known well enough for adjustment.

Like by itself is the chassis actually worth what it costs? I doubt it.

I mean, Init 3 for 34 with a talent is not worlds different from an RZ-2. 4 health (but no shields), 3 agility (usually), 2 dice turret (plus a helpful bullseye option), a truly amazing dial considering they'll seldom need to take stress, plus sorta kinda two actions (one of which they can do on a bump or obstacle overlap). And to go up to Init 5 for only 6 points more seems a bargain.

And yet...

I wouldn't hate to see their prices go down, Ensnare up, just to make the plain ones less bad. They seem like a relatively wholesome little bunch of enby bugs, if they're not doing tractor BS.

44 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Quick moment of appreciation for the 29 pt RZ-1 A-Wing. Being able to focus boost into R1 with a 29 pt ship is neat. Im not 100% sure yet but it might be less bad than it appears?

I think they probably have some potential. But like, why not just fly Resistance ones?

I suppose for raw numbers... Six with Ion Missiles? Defensive Token at Range 3, Focus/Boost at Range 1 for blocking and pewpew, 5-straight out and Lock-Boost, to come back in with missiles?

AION FLUX?

4 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

(compare to HS where you're basically guaranteed to play SR Boba for 2/6 games)

Source? (Throwing random numbers out without data points just takes away from your argument)

What you run into has a lot to do with how well you're doing. I imagine you're going to see more SR boba near the top of the standings, just because he's easier to fly. That said, it's not like Boba/Fenn is instawin in all matchups. It has bad matchups vs droids, and people don't know how to fly Fenn. Boba, with all the tools, shouldn't solo a list alone, unless your opponent is incompetent.

44 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I think they probably have some potential. But like, why not just fly Resistance ones?

I suppose for raw numbers... Six with Ion Missiles? Defensive Token at Range 3, Focus/Boost at Range 1 for blocking and pewpew, 5-straight out and Lock-Boost, to come back in with missiles?

AION FLUX?

Why not fly resistance ones.... why don’t the empire players fly more TIE fos?

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Quick moment of appreciation for the 29 pt RZ-1 A-Wing. Being able to focus boost into R1 with a 29 pt ship is neat. Im not 100% sure yet but it might be less bad than it appears?

Any chance I can run proud tradition on one of these?

Eh, it's a TIE FO that pays 4 pts to link to boost...and can't take AO...not super exciting, +10pts for X-Wing just seems better.

14 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Eh, it's a TIE FO that pays 4 pts to link to boost...and can't take AO...not super exciting, +10pts for X-Wing just seems better.

Im not trying to say anything profound here. Just talking about a ship that I think is maybe actually useful. Epsilon FOs (25) and Omega PT FOs (30) are solid value. Daredevil RZ1As (31) cant be all bad right? Or just no upgrades.

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Im not trying to say anything profound here. Just talking about a ship that I think is maybe actually useful. Epsilon FOs (25) and Omega PT FOs (30) are solid value. Daredevil RZ1As (31) cant be all bad right?

I'm with you...it's fine (tm), just not sure how it fits into rebel list building.

8 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

I'm with you...it's fine (tm), just not sure how it fits into rebel list building.

This is a bit of the problem for Rebels in HS. They lack the 23-25 point filler blocker. Honestly, I'd be fine if they never reprinted the Rebel Z-95, and priced the RZ-1 generics down by 4 to 5 points. Helps them to be more swarmable too in line with the other HS generic price downs.

Is there a reason why Res RZ-2 Awings are so much better than Rebel RZ-1 Awings?
(Oh ho ho. Yes, significant usefulness for 3 points...)
Are either of these undercoated or overcosted? (Just generics, I reckon the named A2s are undercosted from their constant appearances)
Should the A1 be 29->28?
Or should the A2 be 32->33?

Rebel Zs are pretty boring atm. Glad they went down to 22 though.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

I mean, Init 3 for 34 with a talent is not worlds different from an RZ-2. 4 health (but no shields), 3 agility (usually), 2 dice turret (plus a helpful bullseye option), a truly amazing dial considering they'll seldom need to take stress, plus sorta kinda two actions (one of which they can do on a bump or obstacle overlap). And to go up to Init 5 for only 6 points more seems a bargain.

Hmm. I need more table time with a naked chassis...

I suggest the chassis is probably overcosted too: While the Stalgasin gets significant advantages it can be very hard to leverage: current lists have enough ships that an I3 is going to have a hard time not making that tractor token become a massive liability. Its basically not a free BR nor rotate, as it drops the stat line down to 2 agi. (The 3 red bullseye is worth something, but let's not get there yet)

If the Rebel Z is 22, and the Rebel A is 28-29. It suggests that dial + 1 green die is about 5-6 points. (With the dial compensating at about 1 point or so for increased cost)

Compared to the A2 (32), The nantex has -
Positive: Higher PS by 2 (easily 2-4pts), 3 die bullseye(?? 2-4 points??)
Wash: firing arcs, action choices (Awing can have 2, nantex gets 1 or 3 but for tractor), same agility, similar dial goodness.
Negative: hull vs shields (1-2pt), the tractor token significantly drops their value (5-6pt)

So, 32 + 4 + (2to4) - 2 - 6 = 30-32. Depends on how valuable you see the bullseye of course. But I don't think its worth more than 4 points due to how little its used at I3. At higher initiative, it might be worth a little more, but I suggest not really from my table experience.

It seems like these would be safe at 32-33 also, if not 31. ugh. Its close. Must admit.

But Chertek and Sun Fac sadly have near useless abilities now.

--

I think I would have rather seen errata to ensnare and the nantex ability to tighten the cases it could be used instead of the tractor changes. Those also affect other ships poorly, like Thanisson. And tractor isn't super strong in 2e, esp with Cannons still allowing extra green dice at R3.

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Im not trying to say anything profound here. Just talking about a ship that I think is maybe actually useful. Epsilon FOs (25) and Omega PT FOs (30) are solid value. Daredevil RZ1As (31) cant be all bad right? Or just no upgrades.

They'd be a lot better if you could Daredevil off the "linked" action, but alas...

29pts for A1 isn't too bad. I think 28 is also possible. Daredevil isn't needed. I'd rather have intimidation. Or naked.

Jake is also pretty good. Coordinate is solid. Intimidation is pretty strong. And Snap Shot isn't bad either with a small number.

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I mean, Init 3 for 34 with a talent is not worlds different from an RZ-2. 4 health (but no shields), 3 agility (usually), 2 dice turret (plus a helpful bullseye option), a truly amazing dial considering they'll seldom need to take stress, plus sorta kinda two actions (one of which they can do on a bump or obstacle overlap). And to go up to Init 5 for only 6 points more seems a bargain.

And yet...

I wouldn't hate to see their prices go down, Ensnare up, just to make the plain ones less bad. They seem like a relatively wholesome little bunch of enby bugs, if they're not doing tractor BS.

Give it both mod slots and do the price drop + ensnare waaaaay up. Stealth Device Gravitic Deflection looks cool. Treacherous could have a use, and that's Hyperspace. Heck, even target computer and hull upgrade could be interesting if we're limiting ourselves to Hyperspace.