I’m going to be honest: pre-points change extended anti-excites me.

8 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Was that in the OP article? Does anyone have the link handy?

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/12/27/2020-roadmap-for-star-wars-x-wing-organized-play/

"For the 2020 season, the Hyperspace Game Mode will be used for the System Open Series and the Coruscant Invitational. The first Store Championship season in 2020 will also be using Hyperspace Game Mode. On the other hand, the Extended Game Mode will be used for Prime Championships, Grand Championships, Continental Championships, and the World Championship."

Most common archetypes (cut rate, baseline 13.64%):

1. Fang Fighter, Firespray-class Patrol Craft: 23 (11.50%)
2. RZ-2 A-wing, RZ-2 A-wing, RZ-2 A-wing, RZ-2 A-wing, RZ-2 A-wing: 17 (17.00%)
3. T-70 X-wing, T-70 X-wing, T-70 X-wing, T-70 X-wing: 16 (16.00%)
4. Firespray-class Patrol Craft, Firespray-class Patrol Craft: 16 (16.00%)
5. Fang Fighter, Fang Fighter, Firespray-class Patrol Craft: 15 (3.00%)
6. T-65 X-wing, T-65 X-wing, T-65 X-wing, T-65 X-wing, T-65 X-wing: 13 (3.25%)
7. Sith Infiltrator, Vulture-class Droid Fighter, Vulture-class Droid Fighter, Vulture-class Droid Fighter, Vulture-class Droid Fighter, Vulture-class Droid Fighter, Vulture-class Droid Fighter: 12 (2.00%)
8. Fang Fighter, Fang Fighter, Fang Fighter, Fang Fighter: 12 (6.00%)
9. TIE/sf Fighter, TIE/sf Fighter, TIE/sf Fighter, TIE/vn Silencer: 11 (5.50%)
10. Fang Fighter, Fang Fighter, Fang Fighter, M3-A Interceptor: 10 (10.00%)

is this useful? I can't tell

everybody point and laugh at 5 x-wings

5 minutes ago, svelok said:

everybody point and laugh at 5 x-wings

Most common archetypes (cut rate, baseline 13.64%):
1. Boba Fett, Fenn Rau: 23 (11.50%)
2. Blue Squadron Escort, Blue Squadron Escort, Blue Squadron Escort, Blue Squadron Escort, Blue Squadron Escort: 13 (3.25%)
3. Boba Fett, Skull Squadron Pilot, Skull Squadron Pilot: 10 (3.33%)
4. Skull Squadron Pilot, Skull Squadron Pilot, Skull Squadron Pilot, Skull Squadron Pilot: 10 (10.00%)
5. Boba Fett, Emon Azzameen: 9 (0.00%)
6. "Holo", Kylo Ren, Major Vonreg: 7 (0.00%)
7. Lando Calrissian, Luke Skywalker, Thane Kyrell: 6 (6.00%)
8. Kylo Ren, Zeta Squadron Survivor, Zeta Squadron Survivor, Zeta Squadron Survivor: 6 (3.00%)
9. DBS-32C, Trade Federation Drone, Trade Federation Drone, Trade Federation Drone, Trade Federation Drone, Trade Federation Drone, Trade Federation Drone, Trade Federation Drone: 5 (0.00%)
10. Braylen Stramm, Jake Farrell, Luke Skywalker, Ten Numb: 5 (5.00%)

point and laugh at all these 0.00%s too

*opponent flies over debris*

"No consequences?"

*rolls a crit*

"No, consequences!"

31 minutes ago, svelok said:

Most common archetypes (cut rate, baseline 13.64%):

1. Fang Fighter, Firespray-class Patrol Craft: 23 (11.50%)
2. RZ-2 A-wing, RZ-2 A-wing, RZ-2 A-wing, RZ-2 A-wing, RZ-2 A-wing: 17 (17.00%)
3. T-70 X-wing, T-70 X-wing, T-70 X-wing, T-70 X-wing: 16 (16.00%)
4. Firespray-class Patrol Craft, Firespray-class Patrol Craft: 16 (16.00%)
5. Fang Fighter, Fang Fighter, Firespray-class Patrol Craft: 15 (3.00%)
6. T-65 X-wing, T-65 X-wing, T-65 X-wing, T-65 X-wing, T-65 X-wing: 13 (3.25%)
7. Sith Infiltrator, Vulture-class Droid Fighter, Vulture-class Droid Fighter, Vulture-class Droid Fighter, Vulture-class Droid Fighter, Vulture-class Droid Fighter, Vulture-class Droid Fighter: 12 (2.00%)
8. Fang Fighter, Fang Fighter, Fang Fighter, Fang Fighter: 12 (6.00%)
9. TIE/sf Fighter, TIE/sf Fighter, TIE/sf Fighter, TIE/vn Silencer: 11 (5.50%)
10. Fang Fighter, Fang Fighter, Fang Fighter, M3-A Interceptor: 10 (10.00%)

No Imps?

Also, 5/10 of the archetypes are Scum. 🤔

3 minutes ago, Darth Seridur said:

No Imps?

Also, 5/10 of the archetypes are Scum. 🤔

no one wants to even try republic.

6 minutes ago, Darth Seridur said:

No Imps?

Also, 5/10 of the archetypes are Scum. 🤔

To be fair, 4/10 are Fangs, so if you want to know the issue, there's a good place to start looking

3 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

no one wants to even try republic.

The impression I have gotten from the SOSes is the way to play Republic is loads of CLT. Which can mean low damage output, running to preserve points continually, low scoring games.

That put me off, hugely. As i don't fancy that playstyle right now.

Since the UK SOS, been playing fun HS. And non mass CLT Republic is tons of fun. So up to others to take it to an event.

Just now, Darth Seridur said:

The impression I have gotten from the SOSes is the way to play Republic is loads of CLT. Which can mean low damage output, running to preserve points continually, low scoring games.

That put me off, hugely. As i don't fancy that playstyle right now.

Since the UK SOS, been playing fun HS. And non mass CLT Republic is tons of fun. So up to others to take it to an event.

actually, the 4 CLT knights + 1 (usually broadside) seems to me like an on-par (if not better) 5X. It will put out a surprisingly solid damage when it lines up bullseye, which it should rather consistently throughout the game.

10 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

actually, the 4 CLT knights + 1 (usually broadside) seems to me like an on-par (if not better) 5X. It will put out a surprisingly solid damage when it lines up bullseye, which it should rather consistently throughout the game.

Perhaps agains I2 Xs, but at I3, the Jedi actually get blocked by a lot of random things.

Also their evade is near useless, as it depletes force.

12 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Perhaps agains I2 Xs, but at I3, the Jedi actually get blocked by a lot of random things.

Also their evade is near useless, as it depletes force.

What's the i3 spam with bids that I'm missing?

Also... 3 agility with a passive mod seems like a really solid feature?

If 5A is vaunted as a solid list (it is, even if a bit boring), then why is a jedi knight, which mimicks most of the 5A features, trading the back arc (sad!) for easy repositions, a passive mod when not, and a damage boost that's better than a TL when bullseye-ing worse?

I suspect people are head-simming it all away here? (this isn't to try and tell everyone that ths is magically the best list to ever exist, but uh... there's only five jedi knight lists in ATC...)

...five.

6 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

What's the i3 spam with bids that I'm missing?

Also... 3 agility with a passive mod seems like a really solid feature?

If 5A is vaunted as a solid list (it is, even if a bit boring), then why is a jedi knight, which mimicks most of the 5A features, trading the back arc (sad!) for easy repositions, a passive mod when not, and a damage boost that's better than a TL when bullseye-ing worse?

I suspect people are head-simming it all away here? (this isn't to try and tell everyone that ths is magically the best list to ever exist, but uh... there's only five jedi knight lists in ATC...)

...five.

They're inquisitors that don't have access to imperial support or good linked actions. They can do a pseudo-stressless linked action, but it cost them their mod whereas Inquisitors get both and in exchange they get a damage bonus that requires positioning and a focus mod to work...I understand people like Jedi, but Inquisitors just seem like a better and more consistent pick to do the same thing.

1 minute ago, MasterShake2 said:

They're inquisitors that don't have access to imperial support or good linked actions. They can do a pseudo-stressless linked action, but it cost them their mod whereas Inquisitors get both and in exchange they get a damage bonus that requires positioning and a focus mod to work...I understand people like Jedi, but Inquisitors just seem like a better and more consistent pick to do the same thing.

Hyperspace...?

Aint no one taking a CLT jedi in extended...? (correctly).

Edit/elaborated: I agree, it's just comparing apples to oranges. the Knights (or even the 4-named jedi list) just do stuff other factions can't [in hyperspace].

If you're going to bring a JK, why not upgrade to Bariss for 2 more points? +1ps, and you might use the ability once. I think the 3 -> 4 jump is decent, since it gets you with FOTP's, B's, Skulls, Greer, and some other ships.

2 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Hyperspace...?

Aint no one taking a CLT jedi in extended...? (correctly).

Eh, I can't find myself caring about HS speculation. Still feels like everyone is just guessing at this point. Quad CLT knights might be good, but I'd 100% on board with upgrading to named Jedi being way better than random clone ship. That being said, I very much hesitate to call the damage "surprising". It's light and semi consistent, but not quite to the defgree of 5x AO RZ2s, it just has better burst potential. *shrugs* One of my teammates has putting in a lot of reps with Quad jedi with CLTs and, it's a good list, but it's going to time a lot and barely breaking double digit points off of the opposing squad. It really relies on narrow margin wins with controlling aggression and pressure.

55 minutes ago, Darth Seridur said:

No Imps?

Also, 5/10 of the archetypes are Scum. 🤔

I don't think the numbers here should be read as a commentary on the factions not seen here (it's probably a combination of more build variety within the faction plus lower faction popularity driving down the sample size). My read here is that a lot of the obvious copy/paste until 200 builds are performing poorly, which shouldn't be surprising because 1) most people are bad at flying generics and the more "obvious" the build the more accessible it is to less experienced players 2) builds based on spamming a single platform tend to have fairly obvious counter-play, made even easier if the player flying it is more likely to be inexperienced.

57 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Perhaps agains I2 Xs, but at I3, the Jedi actually get blocked by a lot of random things.

I don't think the message was that CLT Knights compare well specifically versus 5X.

1 hour ago, Darth Seridur said:

No Imps?

Also, 5/10 of the archetypes are Scum. 🤔

This data probably isn't that useful or interesting. Hey There Sure Is a Lot of Boba can be communicated in clearer ways, which is mostly what this says. The surprisingly high fail rate of many popular squads is my only real noteworthy personal takeaway.

39 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Hyperspace...?

Pour one out for all the people who's unfortunate life situations lead them to assume extended

31 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Quad CLT knights might be good,

Sure be a shame if nobody was... even trying them!

20 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

I don't think the numbers here should be read

A truer statement hasn't been said for many hundreds of pages

25 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

the more "obvious" the build the more accessible it is to less experienced players

in my experience the inverse is true: less experienced players don't have five X-Wings or whatever, they have one each of a couple different ships and end up taking the top named pilot of each with a bunch of upgrades to fill up points. new players seem to often fall into the trap of loading up on upgrades, whereas more experienced players are the ones who know to take out the unessential ones and just get more ships in there.

that being said, I do agree that spamming one specific ship leads to rock-paper-scissors, which doesn't win tournaments. but I think there's more going on here than just "everyone is bad", even though that's usually my take...

1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:

What's the i3 spam with bids that I'm missing?

Also... 3 agility with a passive mod seems like a really solid feature?

If 5A is vaunted as a solid list (it is, even if a bit boring), then why is a jedi knight, which mimicks most of the 5A features, trading the back arc (sad!) for easy repositions, a passive mod when not, and a damage boost that's better than a TL when bullseye-ing worse?

I suspect people are head-simming it all away here? (this isn't to try and tell everyone that ths is magically the best list to ever exist, but uh... there's only five jedi knight lists in ATC...)

...five.

I've seen and tried JKs with and without CLT. In various iterations, so its part table experience. I'm not impressed.

15 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

in my experience the inverse is true: less experienced players don't have five X-Wings or whatever, they have one each of a couple different ships and end up taking the top named pilot of each with a bunch of upgrades to fill up points. new players seem to often fall into the trap of loading up on upgrades, whereas more experienced players are the ones who know to take out the unessential ones and just get more ships in there.

that being said, I do agree that spamming one specific ship leads to rock-paper-scissors, which doesn't win tournaments. but I think there's more going on here than just "everyone is bad", even though that's usually my take...

I meant 'experienced' as in experienced flying massed generics, not necessarily experienced playing X-Wing in general. I think whenever you get a threshold change like this ("OMG you can fly 5 X-Wings now!") you get the people who wouldn't otherwise fly that sort of build checking it out to see if it's good. But they usually fly the flavor of the month so they don't know their rule or 11 or how to not fly as a block so they go 2-4/3-3, call the list overrated and then move onto something else next week.

To be clear though, I don't think any of these copy/paste until 200 lists are any better than B+ tier regardless of who is flying them.

Hey, all those numbers were wrong! It's very easy to type "cut / swiss" instead of "swiss / cut", don't blame me

Archetypes consituting at least 1% of swiss, by appearances (cut rate, baseline 13.64%):
1. Fang Fighter, Firespray-class Patrol Craft: 23 (8.70%)
2. 5x RZ-2 A-wing: 17 (5.88%)
3. 2x Firespray-class Patrol Craft: 16 (6.25%)
4. 4x T-70 X-wing: 16 (6.25%)
5. 2x Fang Fighter, Firespray-class Patrol Craft: 15 (33.33%)
6. 5x T-65 X-wing: 13 (30.77%)
7. 6x Vulture-class Droid Fighter, Sith Infiltrator: 12 (50.00%)
8. 4x Fang Fighter: 12 (16.67%)
9. 3x TIE/sf Fighter, TIE/vn Silencer: 11 (18.18%)
10. 3x Fang Fighter, M3-A Interceptor: 10 (10.00%)
[abridged]

Archetypes consituting at least 1% of swiss, by appearances (cut rate, baseline 13.64%):
1. Fenn Rau, Boba Fett: 23 (8.70%)
2. 5x Blue Squadron Escort: 13 (30.77%)
3. Boba Fett, 2x Skull Squadron Pilot: 10 (30.00%)
4. 4x Skull Squadron Pilot: 10 (10.00%)
5. Boba Fett, Emon Azzameen: 9 (0.00%)
6. Major Vonreg, "Holo", Kylo Ren: 7 (0.00%)
7. Luke Skywalker, Thane Kyrell, Lando Calrissian: 6 (16.67%)
8. Kylo Ren, 3x Zeta Squadron Survivor: 6 (33.33%)

.....

5x T-65 X-wing: 13 (30.77%)
not sure who's laughing now

1 hour ago, svelok said:

5x T-65 X-wing: 13 (30.77%)
not sure who's laughing now

Wait, who am I laughing at here? Are we saying T65s make cut and then flop?

Just now, LagJanson said:

Wait, who am I laughing at here? Are we saying T65s make cut and then flop?

see

5 hours ago, svelok said:

6. T-65 X-wing, T-65 X-wing, T-65 X-wing, T-65 X-wing, T-65 X-wing: 13 (3.25%)

everybody point and laugh at 5 x-wings

from before I realized my divisions were flipped