15 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Touche I guess on Thane. He was mostly a throw-away name. Still seems like a lot of initiative and a decent pilot ability, for a fairly low cost.

Just makes me nervous. 18 red dice at Init 3, on a highly mobile ship, and with Crack Shot to really push through some kills? I think a lot of breakpoints could probably be slipped past, but skipping over the breakpoint with higher initiative generics with Crack Shot seems like a step to far to me. At least, too far as a first step. Maybe it gets there eventually, but there's a great phrase: hasten slowly.

I mean, there's clearly a middle ground. Taking 2 points off of Planetary Sentinels down to 32, 4 points off of Black Scouts down to 34, would be a pretty big change. Combine with moving all the named Strikers to 45 points. Do something similar for a bunch of ships. Generic power level up, words power level down.

35 for a Crack Shot Black Scout could be a nice little ship to run a pair of alongside two aces, a more mobile version of Barrage Rocket Scimitars, maybe with a bit of extra spike damage from Crack Shot. When compared with the 46 it'd then cost for a Duchess or Pure Sabacc with Crack Shot, that's a level of cost difference where things actually become a choice.

Nice work. And still less than the discount Vulture Squads got. Not saying Vulture prices were correct before, but wow. That's a really huge buff the squad got. Even 1 and 2 point changes can really add up over the whole of a list.

I guess that's partly why--while I think some generic buffs are probably in order--I don't necessarily think they need to be as drastic as 32 point Black Squadron Scouts.

Then it's time for the Jedi to end

7b Jedi need their 30 points of Nerf

Soontir, Vader, GGI, Kylo- All of the Double Mod Aces need to get a Heavy nerf stick.

2 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Then it's time for the Jedi to end

7b Jedi need their 30 points of Nerf

Soontir, Vader, GGI, Kylo- All of the Double Mod Aces need to get a Heavy nerf stick.

no no no, you're mistaken.

All of those were earned, sir.

*sees opponent pulling out Nantex*

"Initiating self destruct!"

3 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Then it's time for the Jedi to end

7b Jedi need their 30 points of Nerf

Soontir, Vader, GGI, Kylo- All of the Double Mod Aces need to get a Heavy nerf stick.

I mean, isn't that mostly what I said? Generics buffed, words and force gotta take a step back.

But I guess I'd be more in favor of a 4-5% buff here, a 4-5% nerf there, and probably more often. That's still really sizable.

FFG trying to swing for the fences hasn't always worked out the best. The style of 4-ship Scum that got killed in January needed nerfs, but a narrow range of stuff got over-nerfed, and Scum has had a very hard time recovering as a faction. Meanwhile, we still had Juke Phantoms, and Rebel Beef took over.

I think it was good that it took E-Wings two steps to get from their original absurd price, to {66 minus Proton Torpedoes}, to where they are now. They could still probably go down a bit and be safe. But overall that's probably better than if E-Wings released at 48 points.

2 hours ago, Brunas said:

Hey, they can be equally bad together. Just because you have words doesn't make you good.

Poor Teroch.

He got a net buff coming into second ed too which makes this all the sadder.

Sidenote, since we're spouting off random hills and feelings we have. Every ship printed that does not use a standard front arc is a nerf to the fang fighter, and i'd really like to see points reflect that.

13 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

Sidenote, since we're spouting off random hills and feelings we have. Every ship printed that does not use a standard front arc is a nerf to the fang fighter, and i'd really like to see points reflect that.

Fang gang 2020

1 hour ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Soontir, Vader, GGI, Kylo- All of the Double Mod Aces need to get a Heavy nerf stick.

I'm surprised that the community is still as positive about the game as I perceive it. Personally I'm bummed out more than I ever was. The ships you mention and more (hello favorite movie character Whisper) bring us straight back to 1.0

Passive mods and (often because of them) multi mod ships are fun to play, but ultimately bad for the game as I personally would and did like it.

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

I'm surprised that the community is still as positive about the game as I perceive it. Personally I'm bummed out more than I ever was. The ships you mention and more (hello favorite movie character Whisper) bring us straight back to 1.0

Passive mods and (often because of them) multi mod ships are fun to play, but ultimately bad for the game as I personally would and did like it.

I'm way less engaged than i was in 1.0, but man it sure does Feel like the force is better than a huge chunk of the passive mods we had in 1.0

Just now, catachanninja said:

I'm way less engaged than i was in 1.0, but man it sure does Feel like the force is better than a huge chunk of the passive mods we had in 1.0

Maybe, I don't even argue against that. It's more that I look back to hyperspace wave 2 and think...

1 hour ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

GGI

Hmm. I don't think he was playable at the old prices. I think he's the same thing as Ric - mostly just good at not dying, and little else.

9 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Maybe, I don't even argue against that. It's more that I look back to hyperspace wave 2 and think...

I do remember being convinced that vader was the best ship in the format at the time, I worry we didn't have enough time with the format to find its problems.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

The style of 4-ship Scum that got killed in January needed nerfs, but a narrow range of stuff got over-nerfed

I mean, that stuff is still the core of the scum faction, whatever that says about the rest of its ships

22 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I'm surprised that the community is still as positive about the game as I perceive it. Personally I'm bummed out more than I ever was. The ships you mention and more (hello favorite movie character Whisper) bring us straight back to 1.0

I vaguely remember typing up a rant about this, but wave 3 was the beginning of "boardstate doesn't real" and it's basically continued since then in new forms. With no way to prove it whatsoever I still blame that trend for declining player engagement that I also can't prove whatsoever

(the only truth I hold to be self evident is that marmosets like grapes)

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

I'm surprised that the community is still as positive about the game as I perceive it. Personally I'm bummed out more than I ever was. The ships you mention and more (hello favorite movie character Whisper) bring us straight back to 1.0

Passive mods and (often because of them) multi mod ships are fun to play, but ultimately bad for the game as I personally would and did like it.

the fact that every 6 months we have a chance that they'll just nuke that ship from orbit really does help

43 minutes ago, svelok said:

I mean, that stuff is still the core of the scum faction, whatever that says about the rest of its ships

Half of it is, I guess. Boba is still around (not with Marauder/Han, tho), 4-LOM, HWK-290 (but with a different pilot... Palob basically doesn't exist anymore).

Flipside: Kavil? Gone. Drea hung on while VTG Loks were cheap, but she's gone since then, too. Quadjumpers? Gone, and mostly for the best. Guri? She's got some fans, but she's got the lowest cutrate of anything in more than 40 lists, per ATC.

(that's pretty much just looking at nerfed ships, not all of Scum)

17 hours ago, LagJanson said:

No, they need to run Scyks! Run them so there is precious data so that FFG can see the error in their ways!

I guess no data is data.

1 hour ago, Brunas said:

just good at not dying, and little else.

is there another strategy to this game?

1 minute ago, skotothalamos said:

is there another strategy to this game?

yeah, vultures, which are generally accused of refusing to play the game because being able to stop on some obstacles is fortressing/stalling

we deserve our fate

its kind of too bad force is allowed to mod dice at all, and instead of having sweet force powers to use that force on its better to save it for the dice

1 hour ago, jagsba said:

the fact that every 6 months we have a chance that they'll just nuke that ship from orbit really does help

See, that's what I don't get

Points updates treat symptoms. But passive mods and multi mods are not touched at all - and those are the problem.

That's why points updates don't matter as much as it might seem. Imo

12 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

See, that's what I don't get

Points updates treat symptoms. But passive mods and multi mods are not touched at all - and those are the problem.

That's why points updates don't matter as much as it might seem. Imo

you can cost them appropriately though

43 minutes ago, Brunas said:

yeah, vultures, which are generally accused of refusing to play the game because being able to stop on some obstacles is fortressing/stalling

we deserve our fate

i think what you said on fly better is the more accurate assessment of them. You can choose not to fly with struts, but most people don't

29 minutes ago, jagsba said:

you can cost them appropriately though

I'm not sure anymore. Or rather, I'm not sure that costing force appropriately is the best option.

Removing the passive mod, or at least changing it to one of the many different ideas, would be better than simply costing it appropriately. Because my notion of "appropriate" is quite high.

I've been chewing on something, and I'm curious what thoughts others might have on the matter. People find the mobile fortressing strategy unpalatable, as it makes for a bad game experience. Rules language about creating and exploiting a stalemate provides justification for calling this strategy out of bounds. Fair enough. But the unpalatable strategy/bad game experience applies also to "score some points and run." Some have tried to make the case that that is "real X-Wing" or should count as dog fighting, but I'm pretty sure it is just as foreign to whatever the idealized form of X-Wing would be as is the mobile fortress. There is no rules language that I know of that can be stretched to try to declare the run away as out of bounds, though. What avenue, if any, is there to address this bit of unpalatability? The only thing I can conceive of is to change the tournament rules/structure in such a way as to make this a bad decision, though I'm not sure what form that might take.

41 minutes ago, jagsba said:

i think what you said on fly better is the more accurate assessment of them. You can choose not to fly with struts, but most people don't

I don't remember what I said but I agree