The lack of diversity in FO lists making the cut was really quite striking compared to the other factions. Is it just the case that Tavson/Kylo/Quickdraw is head and shoulders above the rest of the faction?

I was hoping to see something similar to Mitch Hurst’s SO list, but maybe the meta has moved on.

10 minutes ago, Stagsquad13 said:

The lack of diversity in FO lists making the cut was really quite striking compared to the other factions. Is it just the case that Tavson/Kylo/Quickdraw is head and shoulders above the rest of the faction?

I was hoping to see something similar to Mitch Hurst’s SO list, but maybe the meta has moved on.

I failed to make cut with Kylo + 4, it absolutely wasnt my lists fault though.

58 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

You keep trying to say this ironically... but I'm pretty sure you actually were always a first order player...

Same

7 minutes ago, Stagsquad13 said:

The lack of diversity in FO lists making the cut was really quite striking compared to the other factions. Is it just the case that Tavson/Kylo/Quickdraw is head and shoulders above the rest of the faction?

I was hoping to see something similar to Mitch Hurst’s SO list, but maybe the meta has moved on.

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I failed to make cut with Kylo + 4, it absolutely wasnt my lists fault though.

I think there's only 3-4 reasonably good pilots, and since one of them is the 26 point epsilon it's mostly that no one is interested

17 minutes ago, Brunas said:

3-4 reasonably good pilots

Kylo
Most SFs
Jober
Starkiller
Maybe Thanisson
Jad
Longshot
Omega
Rivas
TN/Zetas
Epsilon

Its all fine.
This is fine. Genuinely think most of those pieces are solid.
At least until people start actually using the Nantex.

41 minutes ago, Stagsquad13 said:

The lack of diversity in FO lists making the cut was really quite striking compared to the other factions. Is it just the case that Tavson/Kylo/Quickdraw is head and shoulders above the rest of the faction?

I was hoping to see something similar to Mitch Hurst’s SO list, but maybe the meta has moved on.

That list was never Meta. First Order Test Pilots were always awful. He talks about his decision making process at length here-

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/thesaltminesxwingpodcast/episodes/2019-05-09T13_13_23-07_00

FOTP are not worth anywhere near what they are costed at now. 55 maybe, leaving 61 for Fanatical+Advanced Optics.

I'm right there with @Boom Owl; if anything, my list of viable FO ships would be longer. FO has a ton of options that are, at worst, fine, and at best, quite good. You have a few obvious clunkers ("Static" comes to mind) but mostly it's all good stuff and supports a fair number of archetypes that can and do win games. The possibilities with just the TIE/sf pilots alone are interesting!

I think part of Kylo/QD/Tavson being so popular is that Tavson is really strong and difficult for some lists to deal with. It's three ships that you generally don't want to shoot at, they can be used in different ways depending on the match-up (as in, which ship is sort of leading the charge and who's covering who's tail), it throws a relatively high percentage of double-modded shots from all three ships, etc.

I dunno. It's the three best ships from a faction of generally strong ships, and they happen to work really well together. If anything, I'm surprised there wasn't more of it in the cut.

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Kylo
Most SFs
Jober
Starkiller
Maybe Thanisson
Jad
Longshot
Omega
Rivas
TN/Zetas
Epsilon

we have very different definitions of good, lmao

53 minutes ago, DoubleDown11 said:

I'm right there with @Boom Owl; if anything, my list of viable FO ships would be longer. FO has a ton of options that are, at worst, fine, and at best, quite good. You have a few obvious clunkers ("Static" comes to mind) but mostly it's all good stuff and supports a fair number of archetypes that can and do win games. The possibilities with just the TIE/sf pilots alone are interesting!

I think part of Kylo/QD/Tavson being so popular is that Tavson is really strong and difficult for some lists to deal with. It's three ships that you generally don't want to shoot at, they can be used in different ways depending on the match-up (as in, which ship is sort of leading the charge and who's covering who's tail), it throws a relatively high percentage of double-modded shots from all three ships, etc.

I dunno. It's the three best ships from a faction of generally strong ships, and they happen to work really well together. If anything, I'm surprised there wasn't more of it in the cut.

Observationally, a normal squad is like a fist while FO is like 5 fingers. One of them is a cohesive unit, and the other is just things that exist in the same space and generally work towards the same goal. It just feels like they lack the cohesion that brings other squads together and makes them greater than the sum of their parts.

P.S. kiss my ***, autocorrect! "Observationally" is totally a word!

6 hours ago, gennataos said:

MOAR FACTION PRIZES!

that I can win with mediocre results

I love that sentiment, but I'm afraid that they'll have to limit them to like only 2 factions represented per batch, and only for a specific placement, a la binders/cards at HST's. You really need a great attendance and a great spread to make them feel earned. On the plus side of only a sort of "Top Whatever gets these specific dial covers" is that they get to be specific to the pilots of that craft. So, like in Season 1, the Hera card could have been a Hera dial cover. In season 2, the Ric card could have been a Ric dial cover. I probably wouldn't have sold/given my HST plastic cards if they were dope dial covers. Unlike cards tucked on your end of the table, you set those on the playing field to flex your away insecurities about being an average player with amazing luck in pairings.

Case in point: at both Gencon and World's, I got top 4 in FO for my heart by going 4-3. Yet better players I know whose records indicate such don't get said swag because their favorite factions have the shiny new toys people want to play with. Uh, yay...these are cheapened by my faction choice! If these big events can bestow "hipster prizes" to people missing cut by 1 or 2 games, how much of a sithshow would smaller tourneys be?

But if people continue to leave FO as the "sleeker empire, but nothing special" faction, I guess I could do with trials getting faction prizes, lol.

Tavson + QD + Scorch + Rivas = profit

5 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Kylo
Most SFs
Jober
Starkiller
Maybe Thanisson
Jad
Longshot
Omega
Rivas
TN/Zetas
Epsilon

Its all fine.
This is fine. Genuinely think most of those pieces are solid.
At least until people start actually using the Nantex.

Super optic Kylo has the best range control against fat Fac. Use the rocks right, and he's not going to catch you and have mods, yet those 3 green dice guarding 4 hull are considerably squishy, especially if skipping an action was needed to engage Kylo (who can still end up behind and range 3, thanks to br>>hard 1/boost>>4k. Locks are easy to snag on off turns if optics are not your style). Plus, force + optics on 3 reds are not the damage consistency Fac wants to face. And most importantly, a good coordinate can mimic Super Kylo in a pinch, giving him that power boost against Fac. Even more interesting, Coordinate + Blackout make a lowkey Jerry-rigged Super Kylo that reaallly loves them gas clouds as cover/big gun encampments. But no force is a bummer. Yes, 2 force are well worth a 13 point hike to a space wizard. If you feel extra experimental, Avenger is decent against the bugs if you have a piece you don't want to lose first. A limited ability, but the control experienced by his presence needs to be fielded to be believed.

Upsilons are great against the Nantex. Thannison pilot is still good, but with fewer b wings after the points update and the shuttles all hoing up, he's now a meta call. Now Thannison crew, however, can panic the bug bois (although still a meta call). They gain the tractor before they dodge the arc (different timing than thannison pilot watching something boost out of arc then gaining the stress token). Ensnare will only ditch 1 tractor, and 2 greens against the other Upsilon's 4 reds are terrifying. Tavson's biohexacrypt coordinate does force things to pause inside or outside his arc. Cardinal is still ****.

Rivas is a good bug boi blocker (sure, not a true block, but an effective jam against any muggle pilot is legit in the dice department). Cool ability lets him mod/double mod, but target sync is a point trap. Null and Midnight can scare Fac, but are weak against any remotely durable/true ace I6. Longshot with fanatical+optics can bring the heat and annoy the Nantex. Muse might seem cool to Sense+Squad lead Kylo, but Nantexes dumpster her faster than any other TIE, especially when she makes Kylo a diet supernat user. Every other TIE FO is best used to block away green tokens/some reposition paths so the stars of the list can do stuff. They get dumpstered by the Nantex of any initiative.

The TIE SF: the goal is to take them down with you. Even QD will never move before an eager Fac, so be aware of positioning: i.e., use friendlies and opponents as meat shields and don't run to the rocks. They can't bank boost, which makes the list's flanker or even Upsilon's happy. Force them the joust.

Until the TIE/ba, FO might be the most Nantex-agnostic faction. Against good Nantex players, I've felt the least fear of the bugs flying FO (aside from Jumpmasters, but Jumps suck at a lot of things). Then again Silencers using coordinate/supernat are sort of stupid good at range control/being anywhere even before Primed/Pattern are considered.

12 hours ago, gennataos said:

Those Worlds T-70 dial covers. If you know someone who will relinquish any, I'm right here, awaiting negotiations.

I have one on the way. Need one more...cast thine nets and help an old man out!...?

17 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Kylo
Most SFs
Jober
Starkiller
Maybe Thanisson
Jad
Longshot
Omega
Rivas
TN/Zetas
Epsilon

Its all fine.
This is fine. Genuinely think most of those pieces are solid.
At least until people start actually using the Nantex.

16 hours ago, Brunas said:

we have very different definitions of good, lmao

I'm guessing Boom's definition of good is like Bio's definition of good, in that "good enough to win games if you play better than your opponent" while @Brunas' definition is a more strict "good enough to make my opponent's decisions not matter very much".

32 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'm guessing Boom's definition of good is like Bio's definition of good, in that "good enligh to win games if you play better than your opponent" while @Brunas' definition is a more strict "good enough to make my opponent's decisions not matter very much".

So for @Brunas, the only good FO are Kylo 2 U against Rebel Squads or Super Kylo against anything that has 1 I6 tops. Hmmmmmm.

14 hours ago, Brunas said:

we have very different definitions of good, lmao

38 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'm guessing Boom's definition of good is like Bio's definition of good, in that "good enligh to win games if you play better than your opponent" while @Brunas' definition is a more strict "good enough to make my opponent's decisions not matter very much".

Once I started pretending Ensnare doesnt exist definitions of “good” began changing rapidly.

6 hours ago, gennataos said:

I have one on the way. Need one more...cast thine nets and help an old man out!...?

Now I just need 8 of the vulture droid dial covers...*weeps*

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Once I started pretending Ensnare doesnt exist definitions of “good” began changing rapidly.

It does make the game super fun. I've been running random squads and every once in a while go "I wonder if this can handle Sun Fac?". I don't even do a head sim and move on with my day. Ignorance is bliss.

And as I think of red pill/blue pill quotes, I can't believe The Matrix is 20 years old.

3 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

Now I just need 8 of the vulture droid dial covers...*weeps*

I immediately traded them. No way I was gonna be able to get enough with every other seppie player wanting that many.

9 hours ago, gennataos said:

I have one on the way. Need one more...cast thine nets and help an old man out!...?

Ms paint offer still stands. XD

5 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I'm guessing Boom's definition of good is like Bio's definition of good, in that "good enough to win games if you play better than your opponent" while @Brunas' definition is a more strict "good enough to make my opponent's decisions not matter very much".

TRUE

4 hours ago, player3010587 said:

So for @Brunas, the only good FO are Kylo 2 U against Rebel Squads or Super Kylo against anything that has 1 I6 tops. Hmmmmmm.

true

That's pretty true.

Every time I play first order I laugh at myself because tavson is the same price as obiwan, kylo is just a worse obiwan, and quickdraw is a worse wedge for more points. Upsilons are neat though.

I'm off to go try optics FO swarms next, but it seems like a worse tie swarm.

6 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I'm off to go try optics FO swarms next, but it seems like a worse tie swarm.

Dont forget to bring that 3 pt Shield/TC/blue 2 hard/sloop upgrade.

37 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I'm off to go try optics FO swarms next, but it seems like a worse tie swarm.

I like it better than a classic tie swarm. Optics is your howlrunner, and it doesnt die in 2 rounds. Not tied to range 1 bubble. Unpredictable with rear arcs. Shields protect from crits.

And if you go crackshot version, it has an alpha aspect to remove a ship in 1 round. Crackshot version also gets you backdraft for extra flank protection.

Edit: Ha, just noticed you said FO swarm, not SF swarm.

39 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Dont forget to bring that 3 pt Shield/TC/blue 2 hard/sloop upgrade.

I think this is a bad take. No one is playing academies, they aren't a useful reference point. The 6 tie swarm brings one because it has to, but it's usually still swarm tactics and howlrunnered up to being a useful ship instead.

3 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I think this is a bad take. No one is playing academies, they aren't a useful reference point. The 6 tie swarm brings one because it has to, but it's usually still swarm tactics and howlrunnered up to being a useful ship instead.

Meant it more that all that stuff for 26 is useful and doesnt pay a howl/sloane tax if such a thing exists.

The howl tax exists. If a tie FO can cost 26, and has all that extra cheese over a humble tie LN, how could the LN be costed at 23 without some kind of tax?