2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:
And this is different from any other ship with afterburners how?
sure were pushing the limit, but I don’t think the threshold has been crossed. Not in this scenario anyway.
Carolina Krayts is the best X-Wing podcast
The Nantex Experiment: Phase 2- Counterplay
Part of the experiment and a running goal was to identify counterplay for Nantexes. So, let's see what we got so far:
-
1: pay attention to where the arc is pointing at all times. Arc pointed front is defensive, as the Nantex cannot boost forward and throw the tractor out of it's front arc, but it leaves both sides open allowing for maximum maneuverability and coverage. Arc pointed sides can be aggressive and is where you're most likely to see the Nantex lurch forwards at high speed to catch a target. In this respect, you need to keep the attention of Nantexes divided...not the squad as a whole, but individual fighters. If you allow a Nantex to focus all of it's attention on one of your ships, your ship will likely have serious problems.
-
2. Multiple Nantexes have a lot of options to tractor multiple targets. In this respect, a Nantex can be in the middle of your formation and completely safe. The ideal formation for multiple Nantexes is somewhat loose, but not completely dispersed. If it's too dispersed, the Nantexes can isolate and destroy unsupported targets. If you're too compact, you increase the likelihood of a single reposition getting out of multiple arcs (and then removing more arcs with their tractors).
-
3. Attack runs i.e. taking a shot and then running, is the most viable of general tactics since Nantexes are at their weakest at range 2 and not spectacular jousters. This approach has variable levels of success and requires a judgement call. A complete disengage can be detrimental, ideally you want to identify what the Nantexes are focusing on and speed that out while keeping other ships engaged (remember, keep their attention split). If you let them focus while you're running, you just die tired. If you try to hang with them in a turn fight, it likely ends badly.
-
4. The biggest damage source by far is the bullseye. Yes, they can turn and kite with turrets, but their bullseye arcs are absolutely lethal, so at least limiting their ability to use that will keep you in the fight that much longer and give you more opportunities to come back. the longer you can keep the game going, the higher the odds of success.
-
5. Take Debris Fields. Asteroids give the Nantex an offensive use for tractors and Gas Clouds let them stretch their limited defenses a lot more (especially because they can boost or roll over the clouds unlike most other ships making that much more of the table usable for them). Debris Fields do almost nothing for Nantexes and they hate getting stressed (and the risk of a bad critical is real).
-
As far as lists, Fat Han is the most intimidating by far. I have trouble imagining a board state where Han loses to Nantexes (although a Nantex supported by droids is a different game). He basically has to blunder into all 3-4 Nantexes which is super unlikely, even with good Nantex play. A medium or large base, in and of itself, is not sufficient to present a meaningful obstacle. It needs something more compelling than just requiring multiple tractors.
-
This advice is not much, honestly. It feels very limited and you can definitely run into setups where the Nantexes will kill you no matter what your dial says. A good bit of this counterplay is, itself, vulnerable to counterplay by the Nantexes. If the Nantexes read your formation or intent to disengage, they definitely have options to answer it and the amount of effort needed to counter it feels wildly disproportionate to the amount of effort needed to play the list with a mild degree of competence (I suck at flying aces and even I'm getting crazy value out of these things). Indeed, the games where I've done the worst have both involved poor early trades and a little bit of RNG help for the other player at least on those first few shots. A better early trade for me likely would've seen both games go in a completely different direction. I'm trying to mull around if I feel it's repeatable to get that good early trade in and...I'm just not sure. It's a lot of the game hinging on a small number of dice meaning that, even if you can set it up, it lacks reliability and you really need a plan B.
-
I hope this helped someone, later!
Don't take this personally, @MasterShake2, as that's a good list, but holy crap is that terrifyingly close to the old posts describing how to fight 1.0 Whisper. Right down to admitting it takes much more effort to beat it than to fly it, and even recommending Fat Han as a reasonable counter. 😐
9 hours ago, DR4CO said:Don't take this personally, @MasterShake2, as that's a good list, but holy crap is that terrifyingly close to the old posts describing how to fight 1.0 Whisper. Right down to admitting it takes much more effort to beat it than to fly it, and even recommending Fat Han as a reasonable counter. 😐
I had to check what year it was
1 hour ago, catachanninja said:I had to check what year it was
obviously it's current year
22 minutes ago, Brunas said:obviously it's current year
11 hours ago, DR4CO said:Don't take this personally, @MasterShake2, as that's a good list, but holy crap is that terrifyingly close to the old posts describing how to fight 1.0 Whisper. Right down to admitting it takes much more effort to beat it than to fly it, and even recommending Fat Han as a reasonable counter. 😐
Where’s my Death Blossom™️?
1 hour ago, Brunas said:obviously it's current year
I haven't said anything insensitive recenetly, so i had forgotten
Also, what are people actually running on and with fat han besides r2d2? After not playing him at all in 1e ive enjoyed the falcon in 2e, and i obviously have the sweet painted one that was on stream at KC, so id love an excuse to get it out.
Edited by catachanninja7 minutes ago, catachanninja said:I haven't said anything insensitive recenetly, so i had forgotten
Also, what are people actually running on and with fat han besides r2d2? After not playing him at all in 1e ive enjoyed the falcon in 2e, and i obviously have the sweet painted one that was on stream at KC, so id love an excuse to get it out.
Luke Gunner, I like the title and Kanan Jarrus myself but there's some wiggle room.
19 minutes ago, catachanninja said:I haven't said anything insensitive recenetly, so i had forgotten
Also, what are people actually running on and with fat han besides r2d2? After not playing him at all in 1e ive enjoyed the falcon in 2e, and i obviously have the sweet painted one that was on stream at KC, so id love an excuse to get it out.
Trickshot and a force charge are the other two mandatories. Eu, second force, saw, are also all options
41 minutes ago, jagsba said:Trickshot and a force charge are the other two mandatories. Eu, second force, saw, are also all options
TS, Kanan, R2-D2 and Engine (not mandatory, but useful if there’s points). I want to try him with Precog Luke and see how it goes.
2 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:
Luke Gunner, I like the title and Kanan Jarrus myself but there's some wiggle room.
I guarantee he died a little inside reading that
1 hour ago, RoockieBoy said:TS, Kanan, R2-D2 and Engine (not mandatory, but useful if there’s points). I want to try him with Precog Luke and see how it goes.
With Kanan I can't justify spending 7 points on EU
13 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:With Kanan I can't justify spending 7 points on EU
This ^
People throwing EU with a ship that has Kanan for anything other than adding points because you can (Han/Jake) bothers me a lot. Also, people that bring rocks instead of debris when they have Han with Kanan also bother me, take the i6 Dash ability for god’s sake!
Edited by Quack ShotYou looked up from ensnare and whispered "save us"
Han looked down and said "k but I'm bringing force crew and unlimited regen"
3 hours ago, catachanninja said:I haven't said anything insensitive recenetly, so i had forgotten
Also, what are people actually running on and with fat han besides r2d2? After not playing him at all in 1e ive enjoyed the falcon in 2e, and i obviously have the sweet painted one that was on stream at KC, so id love an excuse to get it out.
Han Solo (82)
Trick Shot (4)
R2-D2 (Crew) (10)
Kanan Jarrus (12)
Millennium Falcon (6)
Ship total: 114 Half Points: 57 Threshold: 7
Luke Skywalker (62)
Precognitive Reflexes (10)
R2 Astromech (4)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)
Ship total: 76 Half Points: 38 Threshold: 3
Total: 190
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z42X133WWW56W41WWW154Y4X250WW2WW142&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron&obs=
I'm currently on this version of Han/Luke, Stay On The Leader and I narrowed it down to this.
This thread I've discussed a ton of Han/Luke since start of 2.0 https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/285183-hanluke/?do=findComment&comment=3735444
4 minutes ago, svelok said:You looked up from ensnare and whispered "save us"
Han looked down and said "k but I'm bringing force crew and unlimited regen"
hellworl
Remember in the movies when Luke used the force to sense where his enemies were going and then radioed to Cassian Andor who was copiloting on the Falcon to tell Han Solo where he should turn so that they could all defeat the bad guys? Oh and Ezra was there too because he figured Han needs help using the force...Good times
16 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:The Nantex Experiment: Phase 2- CounterplayPart of the experiment and a running goal was to identify counterplay for Nantexes. So, let's see what we got so far:-1: pay attention to where the arc is pointing at all times. Arc pointed front is defensive, as the Nantex cannot boost forward and throw the tractor out of it's front arc, but it leaves both sides open allowing for maximum maneuverability and coverage. Arc pointed sides can be aggressive and is where you're most likely to see the Nantex lurch forwards at high speed to catch a target. In this respect, you need to keep the attention of Nantexes divided...not the squad as a whole, but individual fighters. If you allow a Nantex to focus all of it's attention on one of your ships, your ship will likely have serious problems.-2. Multiple Nantexes have a lot of options to tractor multiple targets. In this respect, a Nantex can be in the middle of your formation and completely safe. The ideal formation for multiple Nantexes is somewhat loose, but not completely dispersed. If it's too dispersed, the Nantexes can isolate and destroy unsupported targets. If you're too compact, you increase the likelihood of a single reposition getting out of multiple arcs (and then removing more arcs with their tractors).-3. Attack runs i.e. taking a shot and then running, is the most viable of general tactics since Nantexes are at their weakest at range 2 and not spectacular jousters. This approach has variable levels of success and requires a judgement call. A complete disengage can be detrimental, ideally you want to identify what the Nantexes are focusing on and speed that out while keeping other ships engaged (remember, keep their attention split). If you let them focus while you're running, you just die tired. If you try to hang with them in a turn fight, it likely ends badly.-4. The biggest damage source by far is the bullseye. Yes, they can turn and kite with turrets, but their bullseye arcs are absolutely lethal, so at least limiting their ability to use that will keep you in the fight that much longer and give you more opportunities to come back. the longer you can keep the game going, the higher the odds of success.-5. Take Debris Fields. Asteroids give the Nantex an offensive use for tractors and Gas Clouds let them stretch their limited defenses a lot more (especially because they can boost or roll over the clouds unlike most other ships making that much more of the table usable for them). Debris Fields do almost nothing for Nantexes and they hate getting stressed (and the risk of a bad critical is real).-As far as lists, Fat Han is the most intimidating by far. I have trouble imagining a board state where Han loses to Nantexes (although a Nantex supported by droids is a different game). He basically has to blunder into all 3-4 Nantexes which is super unlikely, even with good Nantex play. A medium or large base, in and of itself, is not sufficient to present a meaningful obstacle. It needs something more compelling than just requiring multiple tractors.-This advice is not much, honestly. It feels very limited and you can definitely run into setups where the Nantexes will kill you no matter what your dial says. A good bit of this counterplay is, itself, vulnerable to counterplay by the Nantexes. If the Nantexes read your formation or intent to disengage, they definitely have options to answer it and the amount of effort needed to counter it feels wildly disproportionate to the amount of effort needed to play the list with a mild degree of competence (I suck at flying aces and even I'm getting crazy value out of these things). Indeed, the games where I've done the worst have both involved poor early trades and a little bit of RNG help for the other player at least on those first few shots. A better early trade for me likely would've seen both games go in a completely different direction. I'm trying to mull around if I feel it's repeatable to get that good early trade in and...I'm just not sure. It's a lot of the game hinging on a small number of dice meaning that, even if you can set it up, it lacks reliability and you really need a plan B.-I hope this helped someone, later!
Along the same lines as your suggestion to make use of "Fat Han":
😈 Can't tractor repo if you've already been tractored...
Edited by Hiemfire10 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:Along the same lines as your suggestion to make use of "Fat Han":
😈 Can't tractor repo if you've already been tractored...
24 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:
1 hour ago, RStan said:Remember in the movies when Luke used the force to sense where his enemies were going and then radioed to Cassian Andor who was copiloting on the Falcon to tell Han Solo where he should turn so that they could all defeat the bad guys? Oh and Ezra was there too because he figured Han needs help using the force...Good times
Don’t you have to do Cassian first then Sense? Or is it lower initiatives go first?
Edited by Quack Shot1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:Along the same lines as your suggestion to make use of "Fat Han":
😈 Can't tractor repo if you've already been tractored...
Played it, doesn't work, Nantex out-threat you by too far. It doesn't shut down Ensnare or their damage output. You get to do it maybe once, if that, then die.
You can also screw yourself here, because the Nantex can still use ship ability to arc rotate, or just leave it place with a tractor meaning that it cab tractor out of any arc but the rear.
Edited by MasterShake21 minute ago, Quack Shot said:Don’t you have to do Cassian first then Sense?
Both say "During the System Phase..." and RR on System Phase Order "During this phase, the sequence of play starts with the ship with the lowest initiative and continues in ascending order." So Luke at i5 Sense will happen before i6 Han w/ Cassian Andor crew.
1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:Along the same lines as your suggestion to make use of "Fat Han":
😈 Can't tractor repo if you've already been tractored...
