2 hours ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

Thanks. I hate it.

The slightly more wholesome version is there ensnare i4s with Grievous, but I'm stretching my personal definition of wholesome there...

Why is everyone only putting snap shot on one ship? In the new snap shot meta, it goes on everything!

TIE/D Defender - •Rexler Brath - 90
•Rexler Brath - Onyx Leader (81)
Snap Shot (7)
Fire-Control System (2)

TIE/sk Striker - •“Pure Sabacc” - 57
•“Pure Sabacc” - Confident Gambler (44)
Snap Shot (7)
Shield Upgrade (6)

TIE/in Interceptor - •Turr Phennir - 51
•Turr Phennir - Ambitious Ace (44)
Snap Shot (7)

Total: 198/200

7 minutes ago, dadocollin said:

Why is everyone only putting snap shot on one ship? In the new snap shot meta, it goes on everything!

TIE/D Defender - •Rexler Brath - 90
•Rexler Brath - Onyx Leader (81)
Snap Shot (7)
Fire-Control System (2)

TIE/sk Striker - •“Pure Sabacc” - 57
•“Pure Sabacc” - Confident Gambler (44)
Snap Shot (7)
Shield Upgrade (6)

TIE/in Interceptor - •Turr Phennir - 51
•Turr Phennir - Ambitious Ace (44)
Snap Shot (7)

Total: 198/200

What about 4x RZ2s with Snap shot and Juke? It says your dice cannot be modified, but is mum about your opponents...also most ships won't have a dice mod at that point...

2 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

What about 4x RZ2s with Snap shot and Juke? It says your dice cannot be modified, but is mum about your opponents...also most ships won't have a dice mod at that point...

sure neat

Or just take 5 with snap and get a whole extra ship

2 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

What about 4x RZ2s with Snap shot and Juke? It says your dice cannot be modified, but is mum about your opponents...

Yes, I think we're going to see a lot of Juke/Snap A-wings of both varieties.

Just now, Do I need a Username said:

sure neat

Or just take 5 with snap and get a whole extra ship

But if you take Juke you potentially get 2 uses of Juke per turn per ship which is absolute cancer

30 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

What about 4x RZ2s with Snap shot and Juke? It says your dice cannot be modified, but is mum about your opponents...also most ships won't have a dice mod at that point...

26 minutes ago, dadocollin said:

Yes, I think we're going to see a lot of Juke/Snap A-wings of both varieties.

25 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

But if you take Juke you potentially get 2 uses of Juke per turn per ship which is absolute cancer

There's a reason Juke has only gone on ships that get evades without having to take the actual evade action within their perform action step. I don't think snap shot will change that. It's always better to try and maximize mods for your dice over modding your opponents dice when attacking. Taking an evade action just to use Juke is no different. The snap shots specifically will get some benefit but the regular shot will suffer in their output.

5 minutes ago, RStan said:

There's a reason Juke has only gone on ships that get evades without having to take the actual evade action within their perform action step. I don't think snap shot will change that. It's always better to try and maximize mods for your dice over modding your opponents dice when attacking. Taking an evade action just to use Juke is no different. The snap shots specifically will get some benefit but the regular shot will suffer in their output.

So, it's important to remember in this case that, you will always use the Evade token twice. Against lower pilot skill, you get to shoot them with Juke then spend the Evade on defense. Against higher PS, you get to use Juke on snap shot and can still use it on defense or the second attack. You get to double dip on tokens while also heavily taxing passive mods like force.

3 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

So, it's important to remember in this case that, you will always use the Evade token twice. Against lower pilot skill, you get to shoot them with Juke then spend the Evade on defense. Against higher PS, you get to use Juke on snap shot and can still use it on defense or the second attack. You get to double dip on tokens while also heavily taxing passive mods like force.

*Maybe taxing passive mods like force.

Just now, Tlfj200 said:

*Maybe taxing passive mods like force.

I mean, if they want to take damage, they can not spend force *shrugs* they don't have other mods when snap shot triggers

Just now, MasterShake2 said:

I mean, if they want to take damage, they can not spend force *shrugs* they don't have other mods when snap shot triggers

I mean, you have to roll hits (unmodded), and they have to roll not enough evades, I mean.

1 minute ago, MasterShake2 said:

So, it's important to remember in this case that, you will always use the Evade token twice. Against lower pilot skill, you get to shoot them with Juke then spend the Evade on defense. Against higher PS, you get to use Juke on snap shot and can still use it on defense or the second attack. You get to double dip on tokens while also heavily taxing passive mods like force.

Sure, but you're attacking without mods. It's like being locked by Midnight. No matter how cool Juking stuff is, if you don't roll any hits, it doesn't matter. I know Snap Shot is where you can have that advantage since you can't mod your dice anyway, but you're hampering your offense on your regular attacks which should be used as good follow ups after the snap shot barrage. Think of snap shot like a much cheaper option of VTG Dorsal carriers, one of those attacks really likes to be modded because if neither are modded, the damage done is very minimal.

Just now, Tlfj200 said:

I mean, you have to roll hits (unmodded), and they have to roll not enough evades, I mean.

If you roll 1 unmodded hit (very average) and they roll 1 unmodded evade (average even up to 3 dice) they have to spend mods. I'm not talking Yahtzees, the average result says they have to spend mods.

58 minutes ago, RStan said:

Sure, but you're attacking without mods. It's like being locked by Midnight. No matter how cool Juking stuff is, if you don't roll any hits, it doesn't matter. I know Snap Shot is where you can have that advantage since you can't mod your dice anyway, but you're hampering your offense on your regular attacks which should be used as good follow ups after the snap shot barrage. Think of snap shot like a much cheaper option of VTG Dorsal carriers, one of those attacks really likes to be modded because if neither are modded, the damage done is very minimal.

Why are you hampering your offense on regular attacks? You don't have to spend the token to proc Juke and if you don't need it on defense, you can Juke the second shot as well. Also, I'm not assuming crazy dice, 1 hit with Juke active is enough to damage a modless target on very average results. A perfectly average roll says you get value out of this combo and all it requires is them completing a maneuver at R2 in your front arc after you evade.

I'm not saying its broken, but I think you're dismissing it WAY too fast.

1 hour ago, MasterShake2 said:

But if you take Juke you potentially get 2 uses of Juke per turn per ship which is absolute cancer

Wedge/Snap
GSP/Juke/Snap
GSP/Juke/Snap
GSP/Juke/Snap
Total: 200

Maybe RZ1s see some table time now?

2 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

If you roll 1 unmodded hit (very average) and they roll 1 unmodded evade (average even up to 3 dice) they have to spend mods. I'm not talking Yahtzees, the average result says they have to spend mods.

• Juke/Snap Shot vs 3 green dice: 0.75 damage expected, 42% chance of 0 damage, 41% chance of 1 damage, 17% chance of 2 damage
• Snap Shot without Juke vs 3 green dice: 0.35 damage expected, 71% chance of 0 damage, 23% chance of 1 damage, 6% chance of 2 damage
• Juke/Snap Shot vs 2 green dice: 0.90 damage expected, 32% chance of 0 damage, 46.5% chance of 1 damage, 21.5% chance of 2 damage
• Snap Shot without Juke vs 2 green dice: 0.51 hits expected, 59% chance of 0 damage, 31% chance of 1 damage, 10% chance of 2 damage
• Juke/Snap Shot vs 1 green dice: 1.0 damage expected, 25% chance of 0 damage, 50% chance of 1 damage, 25% chance of 2 damage
• Snap Shot without Juke vs 1 green dice: 0.72 hits expected, 44% chance of 0 damage, 41% chance of 1 damage, 16% chance of 2 damage

Juke adds ~0.3-0.4 damage per Snap Shot.

• Juke Snap vs 3 green dice with 3 Force: defender ends with 2.09 force charges. http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi/?d=MwAAAAAAAAAG&a1=IQACAAABAAAA
• Juke Snap vs 3 green dice with 1 Force: defender ends with 0.45 force charges. http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi/?d=EwAAAAAAAAAC&a1=IQACAAABAAAA
• Juke Snap vs 2 green dice with 3 Force: defender ends with 2.24 force charges.
• Juke Snap vs 2 green dice with 1 Force: defender ends with 0.43 force charges.

So Juke seems to have somewhere between a 55% and 90% chance to "encourage" someone to spend a force charge. Not really sure the right way to parse this...

//

Meanwhile, 4 Juke 2-dice attacks against a 2-agility target with a focus token will do the same damage as 4 Focused 2-dice attacks against the same target.

//

However, it's also worth looking at how this would effect lists. Cutting Juke from a squad of 4 Green A-Wings would let you take, say, Heroic Finn without any extra focus tokens (only 32 total free points with 4x Snap Greens). Alternately, 5 Juke Blues...

Cutting Juke from 3 Snap Green A-Wings would give you 74 rather than 53 points to play with, Poe instead of Jess Pava.

Thinking more about Sun Fac without Ensnare... Is a build with Gravitic Deflection and Predator for 61 or GD and Trick Shot for 63 points a playable ace with no tractor stuff in the rest of the squad? Just use the fact of a turret ace to make unanswered (obstructed?) shots? Tractor yourself over gas clouds and just not care?

I mean, "headsim" doesn't really work that well with normal ships, and these bugs are so wacky...

2 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

If you roll 1 unmodded hit (very average) and they roll 1 unmodded evade (average even up to 3 dice) they have to spend mods. I'm not talking Yahtzees, the average result says they have to spend mods.

My Juke Seevor at Krayt Cup took advantage of this math to solo a lot of fleeing A-Wings... one damage per turn.

12 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

At least there only 18 possible end positions with a 5 straight instead of 30+. Gotta look at the bright side.

11 minutes ago, miguelj said:

I was starting to but then I began list building with the 118 pts that are left over with this...

56 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I was starting to but then I began list building with the 118 pts that are left over with this...

Obi-Wan Kenobi — Delta-7 Aethersprite	47
Precognitive Reflexes	10
R2 Astromech	6
Delta-7B	19
Ship Total: 82
Half Points: 41 Threshold: 3

Anakin, Precog, 7B, R2, 17-point bid?

or R2-A6 on Anakin. You don’t have to regenerate if you never get shot.

Maybe one or two Afterburners if you don’t like bidding.

Seems fun. Lots of fun.

I have never regretted a decision with more immediacy than when I suggested the 4x RZ-2s with Snap Shot and Juke to a local. That game was awful.

EDIT: Also, this came up, I'm pretty sure the interaction is correct and an A-Wing with it's turret pointed backwards, soloed Sun Fac in it's front arc by firing Snap Shot with Juke as a bonus attack, then Normally

EDIT EDIT: Fun trivia, if Zari Bangel rams you in the back and evades, I'm pretty certain the only way you avoid the snap shot is if you plotted a 5 straight.

2 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

I have never regretted a decision with more immediacy than when I suggested the 4x RZ-2s with Snap Shot and Juke to a local. That game was awful.

F

4 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

I was starting to but then I began list building with the 118 pts that are left over with this...

Obi-Wan Kenobi — Delta-7 Aethersprite	47
Precognitive Reflexes	10
R2 Astromech	6
Delta-7B	19
Ship Total: 82
Half Points: 41 Threshold: 3

That comes preloaded as a squad blueprint for me now in LaunchBay.

RStan doesn't Lone Wolf his Midnight confirmed. Probably for the best if you have a coordinate friend in the list. And probably contributing to my persistent baffle at his insane high-tier performance with peculiarities like pattern analyzer on Ello.