7 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

That sounds like something that could totally be managed by the app.

Absolutely, although I also do want them in PDF form too. Either way I think people would be too annoyed by the complexity unfortunately

9 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

Literally none of the data supports them being objectively the worst. Not a lot of players are taking them, but their cut rates at major events have consistently been even or positive. By all metrics, Rebels are objectively the worst faction right now and CIS isn't even close to being as bad as they are. You need to look over some tournament data.

I was being cheeky, but my point is that both hypotheses *could* explain the high cut rate, and barring a vast data set where individual player strength can be treated as a factor, you can't reject the hypothesis I gave.

10 hours ago, PaulRuddSays said:

Sorry, what? CIS feels like the least architect-y faction, maybe only behind FO.

Well, I literally play CIS so I can feel special so if svelok keeps showing everyone how good they are I'll have to jump.over to rebels or something!

10 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

So it’s treason, then.

23 hours ago, Makaze said:

That seems super undercosted for non-aethersprites at 2 points on Luke/Wedge

Non-Aethersprites -

agility * (1 + 5 * 0)

agility * (1 + 0)

agility * 1 = agility

base agility * (IF(ship name == aethersprite, 6, 4)) feels better

it hurts me that you actually read that, it was supposed to be so complicated no one cared anymore as a joke

regen prices by agility: 2,3,5,8, except if you have 7B it's 100

E

Z

humor me - what do you think is the scariest wave 5 card

https://strawpoll.com/exd12ady

Why not just cost regen according to the Luke Gunner school of thought? It's something that none of us really want in the game, and encourages a playstyle that is not fun. Price it above 16. That should mostly get rid of it.

9 minutes ago, Crit Happens said:

Why not just cost regen according to the Luke Gunner school of thought? It's something that none of us really want in the game, and encourages a playstyle that is not fun. Price it above 16. That should mostly get rid of it.

who is we? it's r2 astromech/r2d2/crew/etc are some of the most thematic cards in the game

I agree, droids fix stuff, this is fine

tournament scoring and overdefensive stuff is what's at fault here, regen is fine. especially charge limited regen

if you couldn't regen back up above half points and then run away and never take damage it would be a very small minority of players mad about regen

case in point: basically nobody was mad at R2s on Luke and Wedge last fall

Procog & supernatural: cost is set by initiative + half of the bid (rounded up). Problem solved?

5 hours ago, Kieransi said:

I agree, droids fix stuff, this is fine

tournament scoring and overdefensive stuff is what's at fault here, regen is fine. especially charge limited regen

if you couldn't regen back up above half points and then run away and never take damage it would be a very small minority of players mad about regen

case in point: basically nobody was mad at R2s on Luke and Wedge last fall

Yeah. Basically, X-wings have to fight to win. Regen makes you balance fighting with getting hp back. Jedi run to win, meaning Regen isn't a choice, its a straight bonus.

7 hours ago, Brunas said:

who is we? it's r2 astromech/r2d2/crew/etc are some of the most thematic cards in the game

7 hours ago, Kieransi said:

I agree, droids fix stuff, this is fine

tournament scoring and overdefensive stuff is what's at fault here, regen is fine. especially charge limited regen

if you couldn't regen back up above half points and then run away and never take damage it would be a very small minority of players mad about regen

case in point: basically nobody was mad at R2s on Luke and Wedge last fall

I'm cool with thematic cards, but that shouldn't be a reason to have a feels bad mechanic.

If regenerating above half points is a problem (it definitely is! It's the biggest complaint I hear at the table), doesn't it stand to reason that regen is a problem? I don't claim it's the only problem. But it shouldn't require a weird work around to still count those as destroyed points.

Regen being fine on x wings is debatable. I don't think we saw it very much early on because of the charge limit. I would actually be curious to see if R2 shows up on Luke more often now than it did prior to Republic being in the game. X wings have the ability to run as well. They can't run as effectively as Aethersprites, but there are end game scenarios where that decision to run and regen above half can still happen.

I know that people hate seeing Jedi run for 20+ minutes after regenerating above half. That ship has magnified the issue, but it doesn't mean it's only an issue on that ship. My opinion is that running in the last turn to get above half is just as much of an issue as doing it for half the game. One scenario looks a lot worse, but it's the same problem.

@Kieransi I'm curious what overdefensive stuff you're referring to? Are you just talking force or something else?

One thing that is frustrating to me is that regen effectively alters the half point threshold so it's no longer half health. Delta 7b's without regen give up half points after 3/6 damage, but with R2 Astro they have to take 5/8 damage instead of 4/8. On such an elusive (and potentially expensive ship) that sort of edge has a lot of value.

This also has me wondering to what degree gas clouds are helping to create this meta where points preservation is such an important factor in list building and play. How essential are gas clouds to these archetypes? And if they are the straw breaking the camel's back, what tweaks would you like to see?

I'm totally of the belief that regen would be 100% fine, except for tournament scoring. If you're just playing a normal game, regen mechanics are totally fine, while Luke Gunner kind of invalidates arc dodging (which is far less fine).

Sidebar: will Luke Gunner see less play post-Ghost? Ezra and Kanan almost surely coming to Hyperspace means that Luke isn't going to be the only option for force crew/gunner in Rebels. At 12-14 points cheaper, taking a different option really opens up lists a bunch.

7 hours ago, RunnerAZ said:

Procog & supernatural: cost is set by initiative + half of the bid (rounded up). Problem solved?

The interesting thing to me about Precognitive Reflexes fears is that those fears are pretty much entirely price-based. PCR and SNR are close enough in effect that PCR doesn't offer much that's new and scary. It can work out better on a non-boost ship, but the no-other-actions drawback compensates. However, if it represents a significant (maybe even insignificant) cost reduction compared to Supernatural, that just opens up the list building options.

9 hours ago, Brunas said:

humor me - what do you think is the scariest wave 5 card

https://strawpoll.com/exd12ady

Sun Fac. They have the potential to be Fenn Rau and Ketsu Onyo in one ship. Consider this sequence: bump > self-tractor to rotate > [move yourself] > Ensnare > [move the opponent] [maybe onto a rock?] > 3-4 dice turret attack on that opponent > opponent rolls 1 fewer green dice.

I think Sun Fac has a bigger "die in a massive ball of fire" potential than other aces, but dang they have the scariest best-case scenario.

Is Sun Fac going for drive ship counts up again? If he is good he will be best against three small base ship lists.

I expect he either pushes ship count up a little or we start seeing an increase in medium and large bases. Cynical me thinks it’ll still be three ships but more redline and Han and maybe Boba again?

4 hours ago, Crit Happens said:

I'm cool with thematic cards, but that shouldn't be a reason to have a feels bad mechanic.

If regenerating above half points is a problem (it definitely is! It's the biggest complaint I hear at the table), doesn't it stand to reason that regen is a problem? I don't claim it's the only problem. But it shouldn't require a weird work around to still count those as destroyed points.

Regen being fine on x wings is debatable. I don't think we saw it very much early on because of the charge limit. I would actually be curious to see if R2 shows up on Luke more often now than it did prior to Republic being in the game. X wings have the ability to run as well. They can't run as effectively as Aethersprites, but there are end game scenarios where that decision to run and regen above half can still happen.

I know that people hate seeing Jedi run for 20+ minutes after regenerating above half. That ship has magnified the issue, but it doesn't mean it's only an issue on that ship. My opinion is that running in the last turn to get above half is just as much of an issue as doing it for half the game. One scenario looks a lot worse, but it's the same problem.

@Kieransi I'm curious what overdefensive stuff you're referring to? Are you just talking force or something else?

Hey Crit! For a fellow mountain time person you are awake at much more reasonable hours than I :D

by "overdevensive" I mean pretty much anything with three green dice and multiple defensive mods. So Ric, Kylo, Defenders, and Soontir all fall into this category, but of those things only Ric has regen. If he were cheaper maybe I'd put Corran in there too but I don't play extended so all I know is that I've heard a lot of Rebel players tell me how bad he is and on paper, I agree.

I think it's fair to be annoyed at regen. It's definitely underpriced compared to shield upgrades or whatever. But other than cheesing the half points rules, I really don't see why regen is that much of a problem now that it isn't infinite - shield upgrade isn't a problem, is it? Or both shield and hull on things that have two mod slots?

Would you be ok with regen if they added a rule that at the end of the game you have to count spent regen droid charges as damage dealt to the ship, and then score the game?

19 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

But other than cheesing the half points rules, I really don't see why regen is that much of a problem now that it isn't infinite

Regen doubles down on running away as a win condition.

Supernatural does that, too.

4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Sun Fac. They have the potential to be Fenn Rau and Ketsu Onyo in one ship. Consider this sequence: bump > self-tractor to rotate > [move yourself] > Ensnare > [move the opponent] [maybe onto a rock?] > 3-4 dice turret attack on that opponent > opponent rolls 1 fewer green dice.

I think Sun Fac has a bigger "die in a massive ball of fire" potential than other aces, but dang they have the scariest best-case scenario.

5 dice if you barrel them into a n R1 bullseye...

Mechanics That Fundamentally Change How The Game Is Played

• Pre-movement Adjustments ( Supernatural, Precog, Advanced Sensors, R2A6, Old Inert, Seasoned Navigator, Slave 1, Sense Etc. )
• Boost + Rear or Alt Arc
• 180 & 270 Arcs
• 360 Turret Arcs ( Luke Gunner, Stressless I5-I6 Rotates + Passive Mods )
• "Free" K-Turns ( Leia, Defenders, Pattern Analyzer, Advanced Sensors, etc. )
• Stress Free Double Re-position
• Collusion Detector
• Fully Execute Actions Over Obstacles
• Force Charges ( Dont have to choose between reposition and dice modification or Future Turn Movement Options for full mods. Changes Movement. Free Mods while Blocked, Rocked, or Stressed )

All of the most dangerous stuff is movement related or somehow limits/alters dial based counter play.
Regen isnt on that list. Its badly undercosted and it feels bad man but its not on the #1 threat list for the tegrity of the game.

Much more importantly...if N1 Anakin could take Precog with 1 more force charge?

1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

Much more importantly...if N1 Anakin could take Precog?

That's very similar to just doing a 1 turn after the roll, and you don't get an evade after the 3 turn anyways

5 minutes ago, Brunas said:

That's very similar to just doing a 1 turn after the roll, and you don't get an evade after the 3 turn anyways

Gonna be honest I didnt think this timeline through beyond 3 Speed Decloak.