7 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Right, I'm just saying this is all on paper. We don't really know the value of two force points but 13 points seems a bit low. However, Fanatical is definitely intentionally underpriced in order to build faction theme, so you have to add however much that's underpriced to the delta between the two since force talents suck. I'd probably pay 6-8 points for Fanatical if it weren't FO only. So the delta is more like 17-19 points between the two pilots in practice.

Blackout's ability, while at first something I laughed at, actually does some work too. It feels really mean to shoot something through a gas cloud, modify your dice into three hits, and then know for sure they're taking damage because they've only got 2 dice.

Should I have added /sarc at the end??? I may be misreading/reading too much in, but you and I agree that Blackout is really good.

On another note, nothing from the Aussies in ListFortress??? Did Europe actually posting lists for once spook them?

Just now, Hiemfire said:

Should I have added /sarc at the end??? I may be misreading/reading too much in, but you and I agree the Blackout is really good.

No yeah I was agreeing with you, just clarifying further why I think the common argument you and I both disagree with doesn't tell the full story.

15 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

"No I didn't! Shut up!"

21 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Nice idea, let's start calling Force + regen lists "Brave" Sir Robins.

3 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Nice idea, let's start calling Force + regen lists "Brave" Sir Robins.

We already locally refer to Soontir Fel as Brave Sir Robin and it's used as a Verb for whenever an ace takes minor damage "Oh, he's about to Brave Sir Robin on us"

On 8/31/2019 at 1:59 AM, GreenDragoon said:

Seriously though, is it a problem? Are printers somehow inaccessible?

I see different solutions:

• Update the form

This is number 1 and easiest solution...even though that app should be keeping score) also idk why no one has their list available on their phone, last tournament I went to I didn’t print anything out(my printer needed tlc) but I had my list up on yasb and just showed that to everyone or upgrades and points

honestly it’s a points game and points should just be tallied for all players to know...it’s so far the biggest thing ffg isn’t addressing yet more then any balance in my opinion

there is absolutely no reason for players to have any gray area on who is winning or won the game( seen a top level player do math wrong and actually lose a game they won by figuring out after score cards are turned in and rounds are paired) there is no excuse for that even being a possibility in a competitive game

and I also agree “gotcha!” X wing is bs, plastic and alt arts aren’t worth your dignity

2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

On another note, nothing from the Aussies in ListFortress??? Did Europe actually posting lists for once spook them?

We were a little busy getting rather extremely drunk after the event to think about such things. 😋

1 minute ago, DR4CO said:

We were a little busy getting rather extremely drunk after the event to think about such things. 😋

Fair.

So it's the third time in a row that an Anakin Obi +1 gets to the final table of a prestigious tournament in like 3 weeks, is it ok to panicking right?

4 hours ago, Kieransi said:

So the people hating on Blackout... have you tried him?

He seems pretty amazing to me

3 hours ago, Kieransi said:

Right, I'm just saying this is all on paper. We don't really know the value of two force points but 13 points seems a bit low. However, Fanatical is definitely intentionally underpriced in order to build faction theme, so you have to add however much that's underpriced to the delta between the two since force talents suck. I'd probably pay 6-8 points for Fanatical if it weren't FO only. So the delta is more like 17-19 points between the two pilots in practice.

Blackout's ability, while at first something I laughed at, actually does some work too. It feels really mean to shoot something through a gas cloud, modify your dice into three hits, and then know for sure they're taking damage because they've only got 2 dice.

I played him for a while a few months ago. He was a ton of fun, but his usefulness was very uneven for the amount of points he cost. Sometimes he was amazing, sometimes blah. I agree, though, about his ability. Its sort of like an infinite charge Crack Shot where on a few occasions it does cool things, and definitely makes your opponent play weird. Normal "safe" places become very unsafe with him, and it screws with people.

1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

So it's the third time in a row that an Anakin Obi +1 gets to the final table of a prestigious tournament in like 3 weeks, is it ok to panicking right?

5 hours ago, Kieransi said:

So the people hating on Blackout... have you tried him?

He seems pretty amazing to me

He’s okay. Not great, not Terrible. Requires to be flown a certain way to maximize his ability. Not having a natural evade and Debris Gambit is fighting with better options in the talent slot hurts(the other silencers), which is one of the reasons Kylo is so appealing, defensive mods (or having mods in general if you aren’t getting shot).

So, Nova, Gencon and Eurpean Continentals all had Empire v Republic finals...I guess that makes picking out the top factions easy

1 hour ago, FlyingAnchors said:

He’s okay. Not great, not Terrible. Requires to be flown a certain way to maximize his ability. Not having a natural evade and Debris Gambit is fighting with better options in the talent slot hurts(the other silencers), which is one of the reasons Kylo is so appealing, defensive mods (or having mods in general if you aren’t getting shot).

If you're flying him to try to use his ability, you're flying him wrong.

He's i5 and a cheaper option than Kylo. If you manage to get his ability to trigger, congrats, but don't go fishing for it.

24 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

If you're flying him to try to use his ability, you're flying him wrong.

He's i5 and a cheaper option than Kylo. If you manage to get his ability to trigger, congrats, but don't go fishing for it.

Oh great, the Thane argument all over again. I might as well fly the I-4 generic then. “Cheaper than Kylo” sounds fine on paper until you figure out the force is actually really good.

The other thing: getting Afterburners on Quickdraw is pretty nice, too. Init 6 without a native boost, so 'burners should probably always be strongly considered.

I don't think Blackout really rates against Kylo (the force is really good), but Tavson is also really good, and a bid is really good, and Afterburners are really good on Quickdraw. Is it possible that the Force is the right thing to cut (and not just that Duncan is really good)? I mean, Fanatical is basically 1 force charge that you can only use on offense...

1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

The other thing: getting Afterburners on Quickdraw is pretty nice, too. Init 6 without a native boost, so 'burners should probably always be strongly considered.

I don't think Blackout really rates against Kylo (the force is really good), but Tavson is also really good, and a bid is really good, and Afterburners are really good on Quickdraw. Is it possible that the Force is the right thing to cut (and not just that Duncan is really good)? I mean, Fanatical is basically 1 force charge that you can only use on offense...

My thinking as well, he has cut Kylo for a better Quickdraw, and a good chance to actually move last in the i5 war with Blackout, and for QD as well.

1 hour ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Oh great, the Thane argument all over again. I might as well fly the I-4 generic then. “Cheaper than Kylo” sounds fine on paper until you figure out the force is actually really good.

No duh the force is good.

I've had success (17th and Top 8 at Trials) before the recent points change with Blackout in my list, a Blackout/QD/Tavson, and then a 4 FO list with Blackout, QD, Scorch, and Null. I couldn't afford a loaded up QD if Kylo was around.

Now with the points change I can barely fit in Kylo.


And Thane did great for me at GenCon. While true his ability rarely triggered, I still made 2nd in Rebels Day 1b.


Being at i5 is still great, even if their ability rarely triggers.

Blackout and Kylo are both available options. Its just a bet on Kylo’s insane lifting ability being more valuable than whatever toys or bid Blackout’s cheapness buys you. Or the other way around.

1. Timewalk Swarms ( Sear and Sinker )

2. Timewalk Jedi ( Regen Jousters )

3. Timewalk Token Stackers

4. Kylo+

5. A Bunch of Random Things

The challenge is to build tournament lists based on how they matchup against the field and the expected cut. Its not entirely about Kylo vs Blackout. Its about many different things and the overall logic of the list.

Kylo is strictly better than Blackout against whatever is left of a timewalk swarm if the end game is vs 3+ things. He costs more at full or half which wins certain end game situations. Blackouts cheapeness lets Quickdraw boost to get the engages or disengages he wants against swarms early and mid game, which means Quickdraw lives longer. So the end game isnt srictly better with Kylo because Blackout probably has Quickdraws help longer. Tavson is a constant and just lifts no matter what ( though the bid matters for him to and helps against the Timewalk Sears Catalog ).

Against the mirror moving last is huge but not necessarily an auto win. Largerly depends on player skill of the folks involved. Silencers stress to reposition so “traditional” moving first counter play works. Though that mostly blue dial causes problems of its own. And spoilers afterburners QD with boost action of legend is a huge deal in the mirror. Plus the tavson v tavson bid matters to.

Matchup vs Timewalk Jedi is a mess all around. Kylos pilot ability is occasionally effective at shutting down Jedi, panic pilot can be a game winner and even Blinded Pilot to deny rerolls has helped me through games. Kylos more durable as well in the one or two jousts the Jedi player typically will lazely opt into because they can. Kylo can sometimes afford to spend a mod on attack in those spots. That said Kylos not able to bid as well and again we have the Quickdraw as an actual mobile threat with afterburners to consider. Blackout can occasionally kinda punish a moonwalking jedis fly over obstacle based escape route.

Against Empire Aces, I think it mostly comes down to boosty rear arc Quickdraw being more threatening than stationary Quickdraw. And bids are good against Whisper, though not strictly necessary.

So yea, long way of saying Kylo is good and Blackout buys you things that are also good.

I personally run Kylo Tavson Quickdraw at 200 pts with biohex and bet against the quality of my Ace opponents (possibly a very incorrect strategy). Usually works ok until you hit cut. Doubles down on the swarm matchups which is maybe a mistake since Jober simply does that and the lists biggest weakness is Aces with a brain. Which makes Blackout feel slightly better for that not because of Blackout but because of the boost action on Quickdraw. But it also doesnt always feel better because you dont get to pick your Matchups in swiss or the cut and Kylo just lifts always.

Its almost like 100% yes or no answers about the quality of individual ships that are only a part of an overall list are useless.

3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Blackout and Kylo are both available options. Its just a bet on Kylo’s insane lifting ability being more valuable than whatever toys or bid Blackout’s cheapness buys you. Or the other way around.

1. Timewalk Swarms ( Sear and Sinker )

2. Timewalk Jedi ( Regen Jousters )

3. Timewalk Token Stackers

4. Kylo+

5. A Bunch of Random Things

The challenge is to build tournament lists based on how they matchup against the field and the expected cut. Its not entirely about Kylo vs Blackout. Its about many different things and the overall logic of the list.

Kylo is strictly better than Blackout against whatever is left of a timewalk swarm if the end game is vs 3+ things. He costs more at full or half which wins certain end game situations. Blackouts cheapeness lets Quickdraw boost to get the engages or disengages he wants against swarms early and mid game, which means Quickdraw lives longer. So the end game isnt srictly better with Kylo because Blackout probably has Quickdraws help longer. Tavson is a constant and just lifts no matter what ( though the bid matters for him to and helps against the Timewalk Sears Catalog ).

Against the mirror moving last is huge but not necessarily an auto win. Largerly depends on player skill of the folks involved. Silencers stress to reposition so “traditional” moving first counter play works. Though that mostly blue dial causes problems of its own. And spoilers afterburners QD with boost action of legend is a huge deal in the mirror. Plus the tavson v tavson bid matters to.

Matchup vs Timewalk Jedi is a mess all around. Kylos pilot ability is occasionally effective at shutting down Jedi, panic pilot can be a game winner and even Blinded Pilot to deny rerolls has helped me through games. Kylos more durable as well in the one or two jousts the Jedi player typically will lazely opt into because they can. Kylo can sometimes afford to spend a mod on attack in those spots. That said Kylos not able to bid as well and again we have the Quickdraw as an actual mobile threat with afterburners to consider. Blackout can occasionally kinda punish a moonwalking jedis fly over obstacle based escape route.

Against Empire Aces, I think it mostly comes down to boosty rear arc Quickdraw being more threatening than stationary Quickdraw. And bids are good against Whisper, though not strictly necessary.

So yea, long way of saying Kylo is good and Blackout buys you things that are also good.

I personally run Kylo Tavson Quickdraw at 200 pts with biohex and bet against the quality of my Ace opponents (possibly a very incorrect strategy). Usually works ok until you hit cut. Doubles down on the swarm matchups which is maybe a mistake since Jober simply does that and the lists biggest weakness is Aces with a brain. Which makes Blackout feel slightly better for that not because of Blackout but because of the boost action on Quickdraw. But it also doesnt always feel better because you dont get to pick your Matchups in swiss or the cut and Kylo just lifts always.

Its almost like 100% yes or no answers about the quality of individual ships that are only a part of an overall list are useless.

I brought up that Chris quote to make fun of him and y'all out here with nuanced takes

2 hours ago, jagsba said:

I brought up that Chris quote to make fun of him and y'all out here with nuanced takes

REKT
E
K
T

This thread continues to astound me with its quantity of useful content

Once the tie/BA hits the tables, I think a Vonreg, Blackout, and Tavson list could be pretty good. Idk if QD is the optimal choice in that silencer, tavson, +1 list but it's all we got right now.

On 9/1/2019 at 3:28 AM, Sunitsa said:

I had fun at Euros.

You always need to get lucky with pairings at those events thought.

I'm far more pissed about judging than players attitude... Can we have Paul Heaver as the marshall next time please?

Can confirm, Paul runs a great (and tight) ship.

like everyone had fun.