I just played a game with this meme list.

Grand Inquisitor (52), Sense (5)
Nu Squadron Pilot (32), Passive Sensors (3), Diamond-Boron Missiles (6), Advanced SLAM (3), Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)
Nu Squadron Pilot (32), Passive Sensors (3), Proton Torpedoes (13), Advanced SLAM (3), Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)
Nu Squadron Pilot (32), Passive Sensors (3), Plasma Torpedoes (9), Advanced SLAM (3), Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)
Total: 199
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Yes, diamond borons. And you know what? It did 4 extra damage. 4! Including killing the target, meaning my other two Nus wasted their locks because I was too stupid to realize what happens when I lock a 3health ship with 3 ordnance carriers.

e1: also, inq is awesome! Maybe worht mentioning that sense can be changed for FCS+another proton instead of the plasma. But I think Sense is the better choice.

e2: a bit more architecture, duchess+predator+5thbro allows for 2protons+DBM, too.

1 hour ago, DoubleDown11 said:

That's true, but he's then also a 2-die attacker in a meta that still has enough lot of 3-agi ships and force users to limit the damage that almost 1/3 of your list is contributing.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's pretty good, I'm just not sure just how good or if he's as good as the 1e Inquisitor admirers (myself included) hope.

He's not as good as old Inq, for sure, but he's cheaper, and nothing else is as good either.

52 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I just played a game with this meme list.

Grand Inquisitor (52), Sense (5)
Nu Squadron Pilot (32), Passive Sensors (3), Diamond-Boron Missiles (6), Advanced SLAM (3), Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)
Nu Squadron Pilot (32), Passive Sensors (3), Proton Torpedoes (13), Advanced SLAM (3), Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)
Nu Squadron Pilot (32), Passive Sensors (3), Plasma Torpedoes (9), Advanced SLAM (3), Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)
Total: 199
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Yes, diamond borons. And you know what? It did 4 extra damage. 4! Including killing the target, meaning my other two Nus wasted their locks because I was too stupid to realize what happens when I lock a 3health ship with 3 ordnance carriers.

e1: also, inq is awesome! Maybe worht mentioning that sense can be changed for FCS+another proton instead of the plasma. But I think Sense is the better choice.

e2: a bit more architecture, duchess+predator+5thbro allows for 2protons+DBM, too.

DBM Nu seems solid. The fact that DBM has 3 charges, but takes 2 charges for the splash effect can be a little awkward, but on a ship with easy access to Reload, it gets a little less awkward. A single reload can set up two splash-effect attacks.

Since Passive Sensors is before you engage, shouldn’t the second two gunboats have locked AFTER the first one killed the target? It seems like they should still have gotten shots off.

5 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

Since Passive Sensors is before you engage, shouldn’t the second two gunboats have locked AFTER the first one killed the target? It seems like they should still have gotten shots off.

it was by coincidence against lower ini ships, so i didn't passive sensors as I've never used it yet and completely missed that I still could have... well, one of them couldn't because of advslam, but the other definitely should have.

Another game. 5A vs 4 Jediknights+Dinee.

My recommendation: concede, run, don't play that!

75min in, in turn 5, we had a total damage of 4 vs 6. After a bazillion shots. Called it after 2h. Was very funny, but not to be recommended.

3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

it was by coincidence against lower ini ships, so i didn't passive sensors as I've never used it yet and completely missed that I still could have... well, one of them couldn't because of advslam, but the other definitely should have.

yeah, it took me a couple games to notice that it's often the right call to use it even against lower-init ships.

3 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

yeah, it took me a couple games to notice that it's often the right call to use it even against lower-init ships.

Second game now, I clearly still didn't "get it". Went fast enough to lock, ended up in range 1 with one. I take them so I don't have to go fast. Well...

@GreenDragoon, I liked your post instead of sadfacing it.

It was a difficult decision.

Because A-Wings.

But I guess there's TIE fighters.

And Gunboats.

Three of them.

So like.

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Second game now, I clearly still didn't "get it". Went fast enough to lock, ended up in range 1 with one. I take them so I don't have to go fast. Well...

I'd consider shuffling up your meme gunboats to have protons and advslam on two, and the third with just DBM. Protons are just so good.

So why is X-Wing 2.0 fun? Is it fun? Its fun right?

4 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

So why is X-Wing 2.0 fun? Is it fun? Its fun right?

Pew Pew Spaceships.

1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

So why is X-Wing 2.0 fun? Is it fun? Its fun right?

I think it’s fun. The most fun I’ve had was with ships that I personally enjoy: SFs, Vipers, Gunboats, ...

For those of us who can’t / don’t travel, it’s still more worthwhile to play what we enjoy.

Yea but why is it actually fun.

11 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

So why is X-Wing 2.0 fun? Is it fun? Its fun right?

Absolutely! But "why" depends on your funtype

6 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Yea but why is it actually fun.

I grew up on 90s Star Wars (Rogue Squadrons games / books, Shadows of the Empire, Tie Fighter (PC) and even Rebel Assault 2, home of the Phantom). It’s a relatively cheap and easy way to reconnect with my childhood, plus I get to use my adult understanding of strategy and statistics to beat people who think about it less than I do. And winning is fun.

E: many of my local players in two different towns all seems to be playing for similar reasons, so I assume it’s true for a large part of the fan base.

4 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I get to use my adult understanding of strategy and statistics to beat people who think about it less than I do. And winning is fun.

Nice.

1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

Nice.

It feels way better than losing continuously in Destiny 2’s pvp, or in Battlefront because my team doesn’t understand objectives.

I also want to add that my thinking about statistics has been improved substantially by playing, and control against going on tilt has improved. I’ve definitely gotten something out of playing an average game a week for two years.

Here's the beginning of a post I started when I still had time:

One underlying fact that we generally assume is that we play this game "to have fun". But what does this mean? What is "fun"? Spoiler: it depends.

I will heavily rely on the work of others and quote or link different websites. You should probably read their thoughts rather than mine. I simply try to apply the already formed thoughts to X-wing.

You can find two articles here on the 8 kinds of fun:

https://www.construct.net/en/tutorials/game-design-8-kinds-of-fun-266, which links here: http://algorithmancy.8kindsoffun.com/

These 8 kinds are:

• Sensation
• Fantasy
• Narrative
• Challenge
• Fellowship
• Discovery
• Expression
• Submission

Two important realizations before I go further into their different meanings:
1) different people experience different kinds of fun when playing X-wing.
2) a game can be suited more or less to satisfy certain kinds of fun.

1. For some players, X-wing is all about the challenge of besting each other. The squad, scenario or format does not matter. It is a battle of wits, and they want to test their own. Others enjoy the community much more. And again different people really enjoy the minis, and they could never play online. Others again enjoy the uncharted territory, discovering the wild meta after a release or points update the most. For some, it is a combination. Different kinds of fun for different people.
2. For some players, telling a story through their squad choice and maneuvers is important and fun. X-wing clearly allows for that, but it does not actively support it because doing so is not rewarded in any way and instead is rather punished by any opponent who does not play along. Sometimes it is best to realize that a certain game does not really support what you are looking for. And that is ok.

The 8 Kinds in more detail

I will go through all the 8 types and try to explain how they are expressed in X-wing. But of course some come more naturally to me as I share them, and others are more bizarre to me.

You can like a "kind of fun", but there will always be some that are crucial to you. Think about it like this: would you still play X-wing if a certain aspect was not part of the game anymore?

Sensation

X-wing as a table top game is inherently playing into this one. You have to touch things, grab dice, place obstacles and move your ships with different maneuvers. S-foils can be opened or closed, bombs can be placed, and tokens are used en masse. What is more, many of us spend quite some money on third party acrylics or spend entire weekends to win some different piece of plastic. Others paint their ships in beautiful patterns, magnetize them to indicate the direction, or - my personal favorites! - they add LEDs to mimic the engines or other light sources. I've seen one that reacts to a certain token!

This is where X-wing shines, sometimes literally.

And yet, various forms of online gaming exist. Many of us do not care so much. If you've followed my battle reports, you will know that I play roughly half my games online. I still like the sensation aspect, but I have to admit that it is not my primary fun type.

Fantasy

Activate rear deflectors! They are incoming! Hello there! I have you now! I can't shake him! There are too many! *Willhelm scream* May the force be with us. I know.
One core characteristic of X-wing is that it is a Star Wars game. The quotes are as frequent as podcasts asking their guests about favorite movies or lightsaber colors. We make pew pew sounds, play the soundtrack in the background. Some know the amount of rivers on an N1-hull (trick question, the glorious chrome has none!)

And yet, every now and then somebody outs himself as non-fan. Someone who has never seen a movie, wishes you to live long an prosper, or other sacrileges.
This one is more difficult for me. On one hand, I would simply not play the game if it wasn't Star Wars. There was a poll on the FFG forum at some point, and it turned out that roughly two thirds there thought the same way. But on the other hand, I never felt as starfighter pilot, or something along these lines. I've read that others do. Different aspects of the same fun type: one is crucial to me and the other does not affect me in any way.

To quickly sketch the others:

• Narrative relies on a story being told. Xwing is pretty bad in this regard, but some (few) enjoy this a lot and play around with story modes. Shuttle Tydirium did a cool event in this regard once, iirc.
• Challenge is huge and especially prominent among competitive players. We want to try ourselves in a battle of wits etc. Is strongly built into the game.
• Fellowship is another one of the important ones that is well supported by the game. There are so many people saying how meeting other players is their main enjoyment in Xwing.
• Discovery is one that's harder to describe. I'd say it only happens in Xwing in the wild west phase that we are in right now. This thread seems to dislike this phase in general, but I personally love it. That moment when nobody knows and the architects can try to shine before better players are given good lists again. Arguably much of the data crunching goes in here, too.
• Expression is one that I personally don't share. I see it as split between Johnnies who do this by list building, and people who customize their ships by painting and modding.
• Submission. This is another one that's very frequent in the competitive community: grinding out game after game. Some reject it based on the name, but I think this is a very widespread one.

So for me, Challenge, Discovery, Fellowship and Submission are the important ones, with Fantasy being crucial for the setting but not more. And I'd argue that challenge, fellowship and fantasy are the strengths of (competitive) Xwing.

Some really dislike discovery, so the half yearly points update plus the frequent wave releases are something they dislike, too. And then Xwing 2.0 is less fun.
Others focus really hard on challenge. But if the challenge is (percieved to be) unfair, then their fun type is not satisfied anymore and then Xwing 2.0 is less fun.
And then there is the problem of players quitting entirely, which diminishes the fellowship aspect for others. The transition into 2.0 was in a way that this, too, happened much more often and communities are still recovering. Ours is, too. And then Xwing 2.0 is less fun.
Finally, Fantasy is something that depends also a bit on the success of Star Wars as franchise. And there are so many loud voices constantly moaning about the new movies that I guess the fantasy aspect, too, got pulled down a bit. And then Xwing 2.0 is less fun.

I like this way of looking at things. I also like the expression part a lot, which for me not only shows up as painting and modding but in flying specific weird pilots or lists (meme lists isn't really the right phrase but sort of what I mean?)

narrative is the only one this game doesn't support officially. HotAC is pretty cool I guess but all in all there's a disturbing lack of narrative stuff on the whole.

5 hours ago, PaulRuddSays said:

It feels way better than losing continuously in Destiny 2’s pvp, or in Battlefront because my team doesn’t understand objectives.

this is why most of my pvp is Rocket League. people understand what a goal is.

okay, half of them don't understand that part of the game is keeping the other team from scoring, but I can figure those folks out quickly and just play goalie.

6 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Yea but why is it actually fun.

For me, it’s easy, winning with ships I enjoy.

2 hours ago, Kieransi said:

I like this way of looking at things. I also like the expression part a lot, which for me not only shows up as painting and modding but in flying specific weird pilots or lists (meme lists isn't really the right phrase but sort of what I mean?)

narrative is the only one this game doesn't support officially. HotAC is pretty cool I guess but all in all there's a disturbing lack of narrative stuff on the whole.

The interesting part is that all are perfectly fine, but not everyone likes the same aspects. Discovery is the maybe easiest example. Very often people talk past each other or have troubles understanding differing view points because the do not share a kind of fun.

However, Xwing is better for some kinds than others. For example, submission is rewarded by better competitive results. But the game takes long and that makes it harder (and less fun?) to grind out games. So the game is weaker in that regard, even if it is possible.