7 hours ago, Wiredin said:

heroic should go up



I think if anything it should be priced based on agility*. Heroic on 1 agility ships is almost a meme (there are things people can do that might make it OK), and should cost one. Heroic on X-wings increases durability by .26, similar to about half a hull upgrade, so 2.5 is probably fair, and I'd argue for rounding down due to the talent slot having the better competition (although there is an argument for rounding up based on shield upgrade instead) so make it 2 here. On 3 agility, it increases by .15, or about 1/7th an extra HP, which turns into about one point.

*Attack value could be used as well, but there are better offensive options anyway, and ones not exclusive to the talent slot, compared to the defensive ability of Heroic.

If anything, I think the perceived problem is that heroic is used too much by comparison to the other faction talents, which is semi-valid. To solve that, I'd reduce the price of the least used faction talents** rather than upping heroic.

**probably not all of them, but Ruthless deserves to go down (to free, yes. It's still creating interesting decisions), and maybe fearless (to costed based on attack dice, or maybe action bar? IDK, I haven't played enough scum to know...) but Selfless probably gets abusive (Or do half points change that?) and Fanatical is good (But could probably be costed based on agility too). Dedicated and Treacherous feel too new to judge.

Anyhow, this is late night thoughts on why Heroic is (mostly) fine.

7 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

If that was the only reason then we wouldn't see so many Quad Phantoms either, right? But we do, so I don't really buy that argument.

I don't think it's the only reason, but it might be one of them. Difference between those two is that many Imperial players have been in the game for a long time and they may have Phantoms already from 1.0 (time when they were op af), whereas RZ-2 is still pretty new ship and while the list is strong, it's not an autowin button and why spend $100 if Rebel beef/Imp aces/TIE swarm/Danger zone/something else that's cheaper or you already have it can yield similar results and/or requires less practice.

Different topic, but updating wave 3 with new tournaments: the meta got a bit narrower. It's not much, but e.g. the lists that were played 3 times and more went up from 68% to 74%. Those making cut just once went down from 68% to 61%, and so on. There are small shifts within wave3 that show how a meta crystallizes.

8 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Different topic, but updating wave 3 with new tournaments: the meta got a bit narrower. It's not much, but e.g. the lists that were played 3 times and more went up from 68% to 74%. Those making cut just once went down from 68% to 61%, and so on. There are small shifts within wave3 that show how a meta crystallizes.

See any interesting Republic/CIS lists do well?

8 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Different topic, but updating wave 3 with new tournaments: the meta got a bit narrower. It's not much, but e.g. the lists that were played 3 times and more went up from 68% to 74%. Those making cut just once went down from 68% to 61%, and so on. There are small shifts within wave3 that show how a meta crystallizes.

Our trials on the 13th aren't in list fortress. Am I the only person to make cut with Oddball arc? Oh also had Squad Seven Veteran too.

2 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

See any interesting Republic/CIS lists do well?

I think you are going to start seeing 2x Arc + 2x Torrent + Jedi be a "thing". Where that Jedi can be Mace, Luminara or Ahsoka. Just depends on your play style and preference. Mace is much more aggressive. Luminara is defensive. And Ahsoka can flex to be whatever you need.

in the Saksatoon Hyperspace no CIS/Republic list made it to the cut.

The cut was:

Rebel Beef vs Rebel Beef (beef won)

Rebel Beef vs RZ2 swarm (beef won)

Rebel beef vs First Order (FO won)

Rebel beef vs Falcon/X/Y (Beef won)

oh, and beef won the tournament.

10 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

in the Saksatoon Hyperspace no CIS/Republic list made it to the cut.

The cut was:

Rebel Beef vs Rebel Beef (beef won)

Rebel Beef vs RZ2 swarm (beef won)

Rebel beef vs First Order (FO won)

Rebel beef vs Falcon/X/Y (Beef won)

oh, and beef won the tournament.

Meanwhile in Canada....

7 minutes ago, viedit said:

Meanwhile in Canada....

They are still figuring out Talon Rolls.

31 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

in the Saksatoon Hyperspace no CIS/Republic list made it to the cut.

The cut was:

Rebel Beef vs Rebel Beef (beef won)

Rebel Beef vs RZ2 swarm (beef won)

Rebel beef vs First Order (FO won)

Rebel beef vs Falcon/X/Y (Beef won)

oh, and beef won the tournament.

Stampede!

49 minutes ago, viedit said:

Our trials on the 13th aren't in list fortress. Am I the only person to make cut with Oddball arc? Oh also had Squad Seven Veteran too.

I was going to make a joke about your trial being in europe, but they at least put the fortress link up. They just don't fill any of it out.

2 minutes ago, jagsba said:

I was going to make a joke about your trial being in europe, but they at least put the fortress link up. They just don't fill any of it out.

Don't blame me. Blame Tome. And paper list submissions.

5 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Stampede!

not in Saskatchewan! but Calgary is in a couple of weeks and I'm expecting the same.

I also made a mistake. it was FO vs Guri/Fenn.

That Guri Fenn player was really good too, saw the matrix in ways I never thought possible. I got him in the end with my beef in the swiss rounds tho. My favorite match of the day, really really tough.

40% of the lists were rebel, and most of them (arguably all but 2?) were variations of 4 ship beef.

As someone with 37 health in his Trials list, I can't throw burgers from grass fed houses.

Wait, it's 4 ship Beef-With-Word-Sauce?

Fug. I had no problem with Raw Beef (UXXYY, etc), but Words are the enemy.

2 minutes ago, viedit said:

As someone with 37 health in his Trials list, I can't throw burgers from grass fed houses.

grass-fed? Beef should be corn-fed the way the American god intended.

2 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Wait, it's 4 ship Beef-With-Word-Sauce?

Fug. I had no problem with Raw Beef (UXXYY, etc), but Words are the enemy.

Andrew (who won) was flying Ten/Braylen Wedge Cassian

me (who got beat by andrews beef in cut) was flying Ten/Braylen/Biggs/Blue U wing. B's with selfless and shield upgrade. So super beefy with words.

1 minute ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Wait, it's 4 ship Beef-With-Word-Sauce?

Fug. I had no problem with Raw Beef (UXXYY, etc), but Words are the enemy.

Vultures enjoy eating up words with beef. It's one of their most favorite meals of the day. Casualty is normally one sad dead vulture and one wounded, but that first feast of the 4 is yummy. Only leaves 3 for the pack to continue to feed.

1 minute ago, RStan said:

Vultures enjoy eating up words with beef. It's one of their most favorite meals of the day. Casualty is normally one sad dead vulture and one wounded, but that first feast of the 4 is yummy. Only leaves 3 for the pack to continue to feed.

funny, vultures and schims were my favorite matches of the day. my beef ate them up and made fertilizer out of the CIS all weekend!

Its amazing how much higher HP counts take stress out of engagements.

Lets you basically actually attack stuff.

I think its probably one of the reasons I have been enjoying FO so much.

Weird.

5 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

funny, vultures and schims were my favorite matches of the day. my beef ate them up and made fertilizer out of the CIS all weekend!

I really think trade federation drones have trouble with beef, and separatist drones have a nice snack. Does that correspond to both your points?

edit: I guess I’m thinking of wordless beef.

15 minutes ago, RStan said:

Vultures enjoy eating up words with beef. It's one of their most favorite meals of the day. Casualty is normally one sad dead vulture and one wounded, but that first feast of the 4 is yummy. Only leaves 3 for the pack to continue to feed.

Yeah, one beef list I faced at Adepticon was the one I lost to, and it was close. The other dealt one damage to my range 2 Vulture w/3 doubletapping yions before I obliterated his U-Wing and he scooped.

Fairly dice-dependent list, purely because there are so many dice and no rerolls in my version).

Edit: oh and mine is all i1. Positioning that first engagement well is super necessary.

And fun fact: I have yet to see one of my vultures get one-shot.

1 minute ago, AEIllingworth said:

I really think trade federation drones have trouble with beef, and separatist drones have a nice snack. Does that correspond to both your points?

edit: I guess I’m thinking of wordless beef.

possibly.... selfless named B-beef, that I was flying, loves munitions. Edmonton is a very heavy munition meta. The common thing here is "if you do not have torps you are wrong" so I tech'd against it. Both CIS lists I flew against had energy shells and torps. so shrugged them off with ease. Also, Schimitars really hate knife fighting with Bwings in the rocks lol

4 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Its amazing how much higher HP counts take stress out of engagements.

Lets you basically actually attack stuff.

I think its probably one of the reasons I have been enjoying FO so much.

Weird.

Same! When I can't decide between FO and Empire, I remember "Wait! This is Hyperspace! Which means Empire only has fragile stuff that can evaporate, which means fly either 4 ships and don't get attached or fly 3 and get paranoid. FO it is!"