8 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Changing subject, anyone else think ace gameplay (in the arc dodging declination of the term) is death and buried?

Granting half points when the ace is halved was already making it incredibly hard, now that bull like redline and whisper vader are gone and SN is merged, all that's left is initiative kill as the last and superior form of arc dodging

I disagree?

I mean, the triple ace trope might be pretty poor right now (not saying unable to win, just likely has a tough road - Vader/Whisper/Deathrain made top 8) but an ace and a quantity of generics seems real good.

I flanked @DoubleDown11 's triple Imdaar and was looking to have a cakewalk of a match while he tried to get Vader relevant after an early overly conservative move. Once he got in though Vader was dancing out of enough arcs that I wasn't able to fully utilize my advantages. Half points on Vader is nice, but not good enough when Vader is popping ships at will without taking fire in return. Those generics look pretty good as harassers at that point!

23 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Changing subject, anyone else think ace gameplay (in the arc dodging declination of the term) is death and buried?

What do you consider whatever the Resistance Poe + RZ2 lists do, then?

That's an honest question.

23 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

Honestly, it makes for a "cleaner" game the way it was ruled in Toronto. Do a 3 hard, then if it fits, spin, and then modify it forwards or backwards as possible/desired.

I'm not sure I agree. I'm not sure I understand how it's "cleaner" - it just make less words in a sentence, but it incredibly apparent and easy to execute on the table, and reverse if all 3 positions at he end of the talon are blocked.

24 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Changing subject, anyone else think ace gameplay (in the arc dodging declination of the term) is death and buried?

Granting half points when the ace is halved was already making it incredibly hard, now that bull like redline and whisper vader are gone and SN is merged, all that's left is initiative kill as the last and superior form of arc dodging

I'm not sure this alone "kills" aces - they were doing great, and still very well may do great. The rise of 4+ ship lists, and really specifically 5+, in combination with half points dangers, hurts aces.

But they seem completely viable if someone wants to play that way.

As an additional and foolishly unexpected note: Hate is a weird counter to juke?

• 2 hits, Vader rolls blank, focus, evade. Juke makes it 2 focus, Vader force tokens say go way
• Second Phantom 2 hits, Vader rolls blank, focus, evade. Juke makes it 2 focus, Vader takes two damage and regens his force tokens.
• Third Phantom rolls 2 hits, Vader rolls blank, focus, focus. Vader force tokens say go way...
• Fourth Phantom is an expanding cloud of debris after Vader PS killed it

Get rekt.

6 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I'm not sure I agree. I'm not sure I understand how it's "cleaner" - it just make less words in a sentence, but it incredibly apparent and easy to execute on the table, and reverse if all 3 positions at he end of the talon are blocked.

When explaining the game to a new player the procedure is easier. Move the ship along the template until it sits in the nubs, if it reaches that position you may rotate it and slide.

25 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Changing subject, anyone else think ace gameplay (in the arc dodging declination of the term) is death and buried?

Granting half points when the ace is halved was already making it incredibly hard, now that bull like redline and whisper vader are gone and SN is merged, all that's left is initiative kill as the last and superior form of arc dodging

Nah. Aces are still good. Proton Torps & Supernatural are cheap. i2 X-Wings are not ruining X-Wing.

Aces lists that aren't also the very best jousting list or defensive fat turret aces can also win games.

Mobility matters.

40 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

There were a couple of rules clarifications made prior to Phoenix, and I thought that was really smart by the judges. Until FFG puts out an official ruling, this just needs to be added to the list of things that should be clarified before an event.

[...]

Hopefully judges just make decisions on these types of rulings at the start of the event. If they don't, as a player you should ask them at the start of the event if your squad can do talon rolls.

Yep. I'll agree that an unofficial FAQ like the judges at Phoenix is a good thing. I know the various New England TOs used to have periodic discussions and come up with unified rulings on different questions. I'm sure that there might be different things someone may or may not disagree with (I don't like the fit the hard before T-Roll), but having all players and judges on the same page is good.

11 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I'm not sure this alone "kills" aces - they were doing great, and still very well may do great. The rise of 4+ ship lists, and really specifically 5+, in combination with half points dangers, hurts aces.

But they seem completely viable if someone wants to play that way.

Yeah I was probably oversemplificating it for the sake of sparking a discussion: if 4+ ships weren't good, wannabe arcdodgers would be good.

Which aces, other than whisper and redline (and soontir when played in addition of these two), were doing great?

11 minutes ago, svelok said:

What do you consider whatever the Resistance Poe + RZ2 lists do, then?

That's an honest question.

Losing games probably, unless ofc it gets paired with similar wannabe arcdodgers lists.

LagJanson might have a point thoght: an arcdodger on top of an efficient jousting block might be still be good

47 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Changing subject, anyone else think ace gameplay (in the arc dodging declination of the term) is death and buried?

Kind of, you hit it in your later post - I think the "aces" e.g. high initiatve ships with just a single reposition will struggle a bit more in this environment. Wedge, not-Super/Afterburners Luke, Fenn, etc.

That being said, there's an entire faction of super-ace Jedi coming out, so that's probably a big "we'll see"

19 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

As an additional and foolishly unexpected note: Hate is a weird counter to juke?

• 2 hits, Vader rolls blank, focus, evade. Juke makes it 2 focus, Vader force tokens say go way
• Second Phantom 2 hits, Vader rolls blank, focus, evade. Juke makes it 2 focus, Vader takes two damage and regens his force tokens.
• Third Phantom rolls 2 hits, Vader rolls blank, focus, focus. Vader force tokens say go way...
• Fourth Phantom is an expanding cloud of debris after Vader PS killed it

Get rekt.

Force in general is, yeah. Hate just means you never run out.

THE SITH INFILTRATOR EXPANSION GIVES ME SO MANY COOL TOYS!

ROGER ROGER!

....okay had to get that out of me....

8 minutes ago, RStan said:

ROGER ROGER!

....okay had to get that out of me....

Once you venture down the dark path, forever will it dominate your fate

1 minute ago, LagJanson said:

Once you venture down the dark path, forever will it dominate your fate

FORGET YOUR FATE! EMBRACE THE HATE!

Okay judges dooku crew versus rebel Han pilot. GO!!

This question brought to you by "wait dooku crew doesn't specify a time window for actually doing the dice modification."

4 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

Okay judges dooku crew versus rebel Han pilot. GO!!

This question brought to you by "wait dooku crew doesn't specify a time window for actually doing the dice modification."

I googled it and found this video with 15 views, and Count Dooku wins, so that's my ruling

8 minutes ago, svelok said:

I googled it and found this video with 15 views, and Count Dooku wins, so that's my ruling

Oh hey i used to play that game. Sad how badly netmarble mismanaged it

2 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

Oh hey i used to play that game. Sad how badly netmarble mismanaged it

does this count as an endorsement for using it to resolve rules disputes

12 minutes ago, svelok said:

does this count as an endorsement for using it to resolve rules disputes

Only if we're going by the interpretation of myself or another player and not random youtube replays

Only one person brought Boba to the Hyperspace Qualifier?

17 minutes ago, svelok said:

Only one person brought Boba to the Hyperspace Qualifier?

They didn't believe. Fett's been nerfed, he can't possibly be good any more.

Not sure about you but I'm ready to loudly whine about dooku crew aka palpatine 2.0

Ffs we changed edition to get rid of that **** yet here we are.

I hope he gets gunner luke costs.

(hopefully the range restriction and the faction he's tied up won't give us monsters...)

1 minute ago, Sunitsa said:

Not sure about you but I'm ready to loudly whine about dooku crew aka palpatine 2.0

Ffs we changed edition to get rid of that **** yet here we are.

I hope he gets gunner luke costs.

(hopefully the range restriction and the faction he's tied up won't give us monsters...)

The "not if the called result appears already" is a big restriction. If you roll 3 dice and spend a force to Dooku a crit, 33% of the time there'll be one in the pool already and you've done nothing.

5 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Not sure about you but I'm ready to loudly whine about dooku crew aka palpatine 2.0

Ffs we changed edition to get rid of that **** yet here we are.

I hope he gets gunner luke costs.

(hopefully the range restriction and the faction he's tied up won't give us monsters...)

Also restricted to "must have all force charges" which means he might be more consistently used throughout a game on a non force using pilot. Maul being the only force user pilot Dooku crew can be on means it will be limited usage because of Maul's ability. Hate can mitigate that, but unknown as to how much. Very game state dependent.

9 minutes ago, svelok said:

. If you roll 3 dice and spend a force to Dooku a crit, 33% of the time there'll be one in the pool already and you've done nothing. 

And it's even worse if you're trying to make a degenerately unkillable Ace (if CIS ever gets a 3 agi Ace type). 76% chance you roll at least one nattie. 61% chance on 2 dice.

Yeah, Dooku crew seems interesting but doesn't immediately strike me as OP. It's basically C3-PO on defense guaranteeing you 1, and only 1, evade. A crit on offense (why would you ever pick hit?)

But... the thing I'm finding most interesting is that it's not just friendly ships, meaning you can force a blank on an opponents attack/defense roll. So when you're defending it's close to 1.0 Kanan since no matter what at least one die will be blank. And when you're attacking you can decide to use it after rolling so if you get 3 hits and they're rolling 3 defense you use it as a psuedo crackshot to ensure at least one damage is going through. So in that way he's actually kind of better than Palps

Timing wise I assume it takes place in the relevant attacker/defender mods dice step and is considered a modification, though if it is ruled to happen immediately after the initial roll before modifications then that makes a big difference in utility

A lot will depend on the points and slots of the infiltrator, since it's the only separatist ship with a crew slot. Not to mention points on Dooku himself. Given the general cost of force points and how versatile the power is I'm expecting 15+ points easy. Though I'm probably willing to pay it just for the smug

2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Yeah, Dooku crew seems interesting but doesn't immediately strike me as OP. It's basically C3-PO on defense guaranteeing you 1, and only 1, evade. A crit on offense (why would you ever pick hit?)

But... the thing I'm finding most interesting is that it's not just friendly ships, meaning you can force a blank on an opponents attack/defense roll. So when you're defending it's close to 1.0 Kanan since no matter what at least one die will be blank. And when you're attacking you can decide to use it after rolling so if you get 3 hits and they're rolling 3 defense you use it as a psuedo crackshot to ensure at least one damage is going through. So in that way he's actually kind of better than Palps

Timing wise I assume it takes place in the relevant attacker/defender mods dice step and is considered a modification, though if it is ruled to happen immediately after the initial roll before modifications then that makes a big difference in utility

A lot will depend on the points and slots of the infiltrator, since it's the only separatist ship with a crew slot. Not to mention points on Dooku himself. Given the general cost of force points and how versatile the power is I'm expecting 15+ points easy. Though I'm probably willing to pay it just for the smug

Uh... Why can't I do this on obstacles, and specifically, when ENEMIES hit obstacles?

Edit: Or criticals.. and gain, enemy criticals.