1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

Here's what I want to know: why--not in an interpretive sense, but in a gamestate sense--are folks worrying about Talon Rolls? What was the on-table sequence of events that lead to this?

The Tallon Roll fits, a judge is called to check if the 3 hard fits, it does not so the Tallon Roll is judged to not fit.

Makes total sense.

7 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Probably because weird gimmicky things ruled ineffective in advance is nothing at all like what is expected to be a normal execution of a maneuver suddenly ruled weird to cost someone a game.

By ruled weird you mean as written? Yeah that's real weird

Just now, Deathrevived91 said:

By ruled weird you mean as written [if you read it wrong]? Yeah that's real weird

1

Fixed

1 minute ago, Deathrevived91 said:

By ruled weird you mean as written? Yeah that's real weird

That isn't how Tallon Rolls are written to work.

It's explicitly clear. You perform a maneuver using the hard 3 template, then rotate and scoot

3 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

That isn't how Tallon Rolls are written to work.

1 minute ago, Deathrevived91 said:

It's explicitly clear. You [are correct and I don't know how Tallon Rolls work]

Fixed

Thanks, Canada

3 minutes ago, Chumbalaya said:

Thanks, Canada

Hi Frank

Just now, Chumbalaya said:

Thanks, Canada

You're welcome world!

Also, in this instance the Judge is 100% correct because he said so, respect your TO's people, but in the real world, no, that is not how Tallon Rolls work.

2 minutes ago, KrisSherriff said:

You're welcome world!

Also, in this instance the Judge is 100% correct because he said so, respect your TO's people, but in the real world, no, that is not how Tallon Rolls work.

While accurate, disturbingly the Marshal's ruling is likely to be used by some scum bag to convince another judge to allow a block when it wouldn't have happened.

7 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

While accurate, disturbingly the Marshal's ruling is likely to be used by some scum bag to convince another judge to allow a block when it wouldn't have happened.

I vote that Krayt Cup uses the most asinine rulings ever just so that we can shout "THERE'S PRECEDENT!"

14 minutes ago, KrisSherriff said:

You're welcome world!

Also, in this instance the Judge is 100% correct because he said so, respect your TO's people, but in the real world, no, that is not how Tallon Rolls work.

That

People make mistakes - it's fine.

1 minute ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

I vote that Krayt Cup uses the most asinine rulings ever just so that we can shout "THERE'S PRECEDENT!"

I mean, we kind of are - the Han stuff is arbitrary. We're just willing to admit it's arbitrary instead of pouring over a dictionary and pretending it's clearly X instead of Y.

Just now, Brunas said:

That

People make mistakes - it's fine.

I mean, we kind of are - the Han stuff is arbitrary. We're just willing to admit it's arbitrary instead of pouring over a dictionary and pretending it's clearly X instead of Y.

It’s clear if you know English.

2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I mean, we kind of are - the Han stuff is arbitrary. We're just willing to admit it's arbitrary instead of pouring over a dictionary and pretending it's clearly X instead of Y.

Han is cheating. His ability literally reads "When 0-1 from an obstacle, the rules are more like guidelines."

1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

It’s clear if you know English.

Han is clear if you know English...? I want your English skills.

2 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

It’s clear if you know English.

Вы не знаете английскую коммунистическую свинью

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

Han is clear if you know English...? I want your English skills.

It looks to me like Rebel Han pilot is a redo. As in don't like the first roll, redo it and then the game progresses as if the original roll never happened.

4 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

It looks to me like Rebel Han pilot is a redo. As in don't like the first roll, redo it and then the game progresses as if the original roll never happened.

I mean, I largely agree. Mostly. There's a lot of weird interaction problems from that - Magva being the biggest.

Yep... home, and not disappointed by the internet. Dumpster fires at full burn.

Those top 16 coins are heavy! Got the Rebel helmet templates, and my screwed up bad enough that the EZ mode list couldn’t bail me out. Nuts.

Just now, LagJanson said:

Yep... home, and not disappointed by the internet. Dumpster fires at full burn.

Those top 16 coins are heavy! Got the Rebel helmet templates, and my screwed up bad enough that the EZ mode list couldn’t bail me out. Nuts.

Grats man! I am super jelly - those templates are love them or hate them and I love them. Been tempted to just straight up buy them a few times.

That tallon roll ruling isn’t consistent with how barrel rolls work.

3 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Yep... home, and not disappointed by the internet. Dumpster fires at full burn.

Those top 16 coins are heavy! Got the Rebel helmet templates, and my screwed up bad enough that the EZ mode list couldn’t bail me out. Nuts.

Congrats, and I know that feeling. MY LIST WAS EASIER TO PLAY AND I STILL LOST, NERF MY OPPONENT

8 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I mean, we kind of are - the Han stuff is arbitrary. We're just willing to admit it's arbitrary instead of pouring over a dictionary and pretending it's clearly X instead of Y.

I think the most accurate way to describe how Rules in X-Wing are treated isn't RAW or RAI, but Rules as Community. Ultimately, it has to be, doesn't it? The only way we understand what a written word means is by community consensus.

A great example is some early interpretation of how Jam worked in 2e. Choose a green token or lock. It's not crazy to say the only choice is between "Green" or "Lock." As time passed, I think the more common interpretation is that the jammer is given the precise pick of one specific item among the many green tokens or locks. Do you want pie or ice cream someone may ask, and you get to choose the flavor of ice cream too.

But there's clearly a way to read the rule in either way. I think the second way (pick the specific thing) is more natural use of language and more convincing interpretation of the text. But it seems like an example of how rules as written is ultimately subservient to rules as community, because ultimately that's how we know anything.

Bah.

I've gotten all X-Wing Epistemology in a what is basically a salt thread about podcasts. To that end, I've never in my life actually listened to a Krayt.

7 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I mean, I largely agree. Mostly. There's a lot of weird interaction problems from that - Magva being the biggest.

Magva's where we need to bring in Rules as Justice!

But that's a rant for another day...