Just now, Tlfj200 said:

Because sloan is a pretty dominant decision with limited ships and crew.

So is Leia. Is that bad?

Just now, Brunas said:

So is Leia. Is that bad?

The difference is with the interaction - leia interacts solely with my ships, and my opponent sees that.

Sloane interacts with my opponent's ships, and the only way to avoid interaction is not shoot anything but the sloane carrier.

4 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

The difference is with the interaction - leia interacts solely with my ships, and my opponent sees that.

Sloane interacts with my opponent's ships, and the only way to avoid interaction is not shoot anything but the sloane carrier.

I don't... think I agree, and even if I did, it sounds like you're arguing AGAINST Leia more than anything. Sloane makes interesting decisions on the board. Like, it's easy to make blanket similar blanket statements that make the think that argument doesn't hold:

Juke interacts with my opponent's ships, and the only way to avoid interaction is to shoot the Juke carrier.

10 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I don't... think I agree, and even if I did, it sounds like you're arguing AGAINST Leia more than anything. Sloane makes interesting decisions on the board. Like, it's easy to make blanket similar blanket statements that make the think that argument doesn't hold:

Juke interacts with my opponent's ships, and the only way to avoid interaction is to shoot the Juke carrier.

Leia is your opponent doing something cool.
Sloane is your opponent doing something mean.

Sloane is feels bad man, Leia is not.
I have to dramatically change my playstyle to counter Soane, while with Leia I do not. (although this might not be a bad thing, forcing a change in tactics is a cool idea, sloane just does it in a mean way ala stresshog).

8 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I don't... think I agree, and even if I did, it sounds like you're arguing AGAINST Leia more than anything. Sloane makes interesting decisions on the board. Like, it's easy to make blanket similar blanket statements that make the think that argument doesn't hold:

Juke interacts with my opponent's ships, and the only way to avoid interaction is to shoot the Juke carrier.

Sloane shuts down the opponent's ability to maneuver and perform actions if they destroy any ship other than the one she's on while simultaneously buffing any of the ships in her squad who shoot at a ship that removed her ship's squad mate or any of the opponents ships that were stressed by other means.

Leia allows some maneuver + action jank once every three turns (probably once a game in actuality).

The only "interesting" part flying against a Sloane squad is hoping your opponent screws up their positioning so you can kill Sloane or pick off a straggler...

4 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Sloane shuts down the opponent's ability to maneuver and perform actions if they destroy any ship other than the one she's on while simultaneously buffing any of the ships in her squad who shoot at a ship that removed her ship's squad mate or any of the opponents ships that were stressed by other means.

Leia allows some maneuver + action jank once every three turns (probably once a game in actuality).

The only "interesting" part flying against a Sloane squad is hoping your opponent screws up their positioning so you can kill Sloane or pick off a straggler...

8 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Leia is your opponent doing something cool.
Sloane is your opponent doing something mean.

Sloane is feels bad man, Leia is not.
I have to dramatically change my playstyle to counter Soane, while with Leia I do not. (although this might not be a bad thing, forcing a change in tactics is a cool idea, sloane just does it in a mean way ala stresshog).

Just to hit both of these at once: Well, that's kind of my point. Do you need to dramatically alter your playstyle? Here's some random at least hyperspace adjacent lists, if sloane is hiding in that deci pack:

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (80)
Admiral Sloane (10)
Minister Tua (7)

Planetary Sentinel (34)

Planetary Sentinel (34)

Planetary Sentinel (34)

Total: 199

Major Vermeil (49)
Admiral Sloane (10)

Academy Pilot (23)

Academy Pilot (23)

Academy Pilot (23)

Academy Pilot (23)

Academy Pilot (23)

Academy Pilot (23)

Total: 197

Both of those are worst cases for maximizing number of ships that would be shooting your (double?) stressed ship. Vermeil/TIEs doesn't seem any better than a tie swarm, and RAC + reapers doesn't even look... good.

Here's Vermeil and some named strikers with room for activities:

Major Vermeil (49)
Admiral Sloane (10)

“Pure Sabacc” (44)

“Countdown” (44)

“Duchess” (42)

Total: 189

That's only answering half the question though - just because it might not necessarily be good, doesn't mean it's OK. So, there's this widespread belief that the only way to beat a sloane squad is to kill the sloane carrier.

Quote

The only "interesting" part flying against a Sloane squad is hoping your opponent screws up their positioning so you can kill Sloane or pick off a straggler...

You don't win or lose the game based on how many triggers of cards your opponent gets. I got to double stress something with sloane therefore I won isn't how it actually works. There are plenty of ships that can just bail for a turn after being the one to kill a ship with sloane, or even just tank things. Even if you want to just take the combo win approach, you can take baffle (which is in the Bwing expansion) and just take a damage to clear the second stress.

I don't know, I don't think I see the philosophical difference between Sloane and Seventh Sister or Ferrosphere Paint. Yes, sometimes it hurts to get double stressed, or tractored, or whatever. Yes, it sucks for Vader to get stressed for locking Poe.

Actually, I think Death Troopers is an even better comparison. No one is rioting over death troopers, but it DRAMATICALLY forces you to play different, or none of your ships are ever getting actions again.

31 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Leia is your opponent doing something cool.
Sloane is your opponent doing something mean.

Sloane is feels bad man, Leia is not.

So having ships K-turn white and get fully modded shots on you while only paying 2 points on red K-turn ships (prices) feels good?????

I’m thinking they’re both good/bad depending on your side of the mat?

Man, where’s my tea?

4 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Just to hit both of these at once: Well, that's kind of my point. Do you need to dramatically alter your playstyle? Here's some random at least hyperspace adjacent lists, if sloane is hiding in that deci pack:

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (80)
Admiral Sloane (10)
Minister Tua (7)

Planetary Sentinel (34)

Planetary Sentinel (34)

Planetary Sentinel (34)

Total: 199

Major Vermeil (49)
Admiral Sloane (10)

Academy Pilot (23)

Academy Pilot (23)

Academy Pilot (23)

Academy Pilot (23)

Academy Pilot (23)

Academy Pilot (23)

Total: 197

Both of those are worst cases for maximizing number of ships that would be shooting your (double?) stressed ship. Vermeil/TIEs doesn't seem any better than a tie swarm, and RAC + reapers doesn't even look... good.

Here's Vermeil and some named strikers with room for activities:

Major Vermeil (49)
Admiral Sloane (10)

“Pure Sabacc” (44)

“Countdown” (44)

“Duchess” (42)

Total: 189

That's only answering half the question though - just because it might not necessarily be good, doesn't mean it's OK. So, there's this widespread belief that the only way to beat a sloane squad is to kill the sloane carrier.

You don't win or lose the game based on how many triggers of cards your opponent gets. I got to double stress something with sloane therefore I won isn't how it actually works. There are plenty of ships that can just bail for a turn after being the one to kill a ship with sloane, or even just tank things. Even if you want to just take the combo win approach, you can take baffle (which is in the Bwing expansion) and just take a damage to clear the second stress.

I don't know, I don't think I see the philosophical difference between Sloane and Seventh Sister or Ferrosphere Paint. Yes, sometimes it hurts to get double stressed, or tractored, or whatever. Yes, it sucks for Vader to get stressed for locking Poe.

Actually, I think Death Troopers is an even better comparison. No one is rioting over death troopers, but it DRAMATICALLY forces you to play different, or none of your ships are ever getting actions again.

Death troopers doesn’t punish my opponent for attempting to do the main goal of the game: kill ships.

aso, the vermeil + however many academies seems really good?

non formation flying + punishment for killing ‘**** ships’, plus blocking?

1 minute ago, clanofwolves said:

So having ships K-turn white and get fully modded shots on you feels good?????

Man, where’s my tea?

Sort of? I can see it coming. It’s a telegraph.

i can aso be in places where k turns don’t fit (a la defenders), and talons don’t always put you in good places.

its also once per 3 turns, rather than continuous. White k turns EVERY TURN is a pretty different feeling.

1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

Sort of? I can see it coming. It’s a telegraph.

i can aso be in places where k turns don’t fit (a la defenders), and talons don’t always put you in good places.

its also once per 3 turns, rather than continuous. White k turns EVERY TURN is a pretty different feeling.

But you pay more than two points for that telegraphed white K-turn and otherwise kinda limited dial.

Death Troopers have two things going against that comparison, the opportunity cost of the second slot they take up (which is really insignificant in my opinion) and their bubble requiring the affected ships be at range 0-1. Sloane's area of effect covers a huge bubble. Friendly ship at range 0-3 of Sloane being destroyed by another ship which is at range, including possible pilot/upgrade abilities of attacking ships, 0-3 of that ship. Or friendly ship at 0-3 of Sloane attacking a stressed enemy, also 0-3 when including some pilot/upgrade abilites.

5 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Just to hit both of these at once: Well, that's kind of my point. Do you need to dramatically alter your playstyle? Here's some random at least hyperspace adjacent lists, if sloane is hiding in that deci pack:

...

Both of those are worst cases for maximizing number of ships that would be shooting your (double?) stressed ship. Vermeil/TIEs doesn't seem any better than a tie swarm, and RAC + reapers doesn't even look... good.

That's only answering half the question though - just because it might not necessarily be good, doesn't mean it's OK. So, there's this widespread belief that the only way to beat a sloane squad is to kill the sloane carrier.

yeah, I can't say if hyperspace sloane would be good or bad. No sense on that. It's more the question of if it's OK for the game

5 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I don't know, I don't think I see the philosophical difference between Sloane and Seventh Sister or Ferrosphere Paint. Yes, sometimes it hurts to get double stressed, or tractored, or whatever. Yes, it sucks for Vader to get stressed for locking Poe.

I have major problems with seventh sister as well. Ferrosphere, I've never seen played, can't really comment on it, but we can also argue stresshog mechanics. The single stress r3a2 wasn't fun to play against, but wasn't that bad. It's really getting the double stress that put it over the edge.

5 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Actually, I think Death Troopers is an even better comparison. No one is rioting over death troopers, but it DRAMATICALLY forces you to play different, or none of your ships are ever getting actions again.

part of that may be the conditions to get it to proc. If death troopers was at range 0-3 of another friendly ship (sloane's condition) it'd be insane. Also, I've never seen death troopers on the table? They could be terrible for the game, and I've just never seen them played so don't know.

1 minute ago, clanofwolves said:

So having ships K-turn white and get fully modded shots on you feels good?????

Man, where’s my tea?

not feels good, but not actively feels bad. Leia is a buff to an enemy instead of a nerf to your ships. Nerfs feel proportionally worse than buffs

Disengagement turns and red moves are interesting.

Im not a huge fan of what Collision Detector and Leia add to the game.

There not a huge deal and I dont mind playing against them but they arent particularly interesting flavor cards.

As far as Sloane...

• There ended up being a decent # of passive dice mods available in general ( "Force", words like "Assign", etc. )
• The more ships you have the less it matters to have one of them Double Stressed
• You can spread your early game damage across multiple ships to counter it. Targeting the Sloane carrier is definitely not the only option.
• Phantoms lost crew so you cant hide Sloane behind a decloak and hyper mobility anymore which is good. I never managed to take a Sloane carrying Phantom beyond 3-3 but it was definitely capable of more.
• The "best" sloane lists before adjustment had a very good ace that could close out the game, Sloane Sacrifices that demand attention from the Sloane Carrier, and Sloane on a thing that takes ideally 2-3 rds to die
  • Whisper/Vader Crew, Lambda Sloane, Sabacc, Wampa
  • Whisper/Vader Crew, Reaper Sloane, 2x Dangerous 3 dice things
• Proton Torps going up in cost reduces Alpha strikes a tiny bit which helps Sloane lists out

All that said its still a goofy combo, Sloane and Extended deserve each other.

I don't really want to see Sloane anywhere near Hyperspace.

The fewer useful upgrade cards that exist in Hyperspace the better.

I mostly just want ships + dials + pilot abilities and to hear people complain about how "boring" list building is because there aren't enough interesting combos.

Huh, didn't really expect a conversation over Sloane to pop up.

I just don't like the idea of her in Hyperspace because of the limited ship pool for other factions. Anything that relies on linked-action style efficiency (thinking of Fangs, Resistance A-Wings specifically, but CIS has some too) might be really up against it if Sloane swarms became a Hyperspace meta staple.

Course, we have no (good) reason to believe she will be Hyperspace legal anytime soon and if she is, we'll adapt to those changes.

Just now, Boom Owl said:

The fewer useful upgrade cards that exist in Hyperspace the better.

I mostly just want ships + dials + pilot abilities and to hear people complain about how "boring" list building is because there aren't enough interesting combos.

Seconded.

1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

Seconded.

keep magic cards in extended please.

9 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

The fewer useful upgrade cards that exist in Hyperspace the better.

Outside of configurations, would xwing be a better game without upgrades?

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

Outside of configurations, would xwing be a better game without upgrades?

Technically it's really awesome and more Star Warzy, but that's not tourney X-Wing, that game is called Epic.

Just now, clanofwolves said:

Technically it's really awesome and more Star Warzy, but that's not tourney X-Wing, that game is called Epic.

We uhh

we played very different versions of epic

Just now, clanofwolves said:

Technically it's really awesome and more Star Warzy, but that's not tourney X-Wing, that game is called Epic.

So, if that were true, then... no

But while epic did involve a lot of naked/nearly naked generics it also involved some of the worst combo wing imaginable to get chain PS 9 focus/lock ordnance or 7 die R5 attacks...

4 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Outside of configurations, would xwing be a better game without upgrades?

Nope. I just want each faction to have interesting tech upgrades to respond to the meta.

Just now, Makaze said:

So, if that were true, then... no

But while epic did involve a lot of naked/nearly naked generics it also involved some of the worst combo wing imaginable to get chain PS 9 focus/lock ordnance or 7 die R5 attacks...

PAY NO ATTENTION TO MY EPIC SHIPS WITH ISB SLICERS

NO UPGRADES, YOU'RE THE UPGRADE

On 2/10/2019 at 12:07 AM, theBitterFig said:

Looks like there is only one generic pilot for the N-1. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't have a talent slot, specifically so folks can't spam Juke.

If they do get a talent... I guess 5x Juking N-1s would be decent, if it fits; Focus/Juke on 2 red dice is almost as good as just Focus on 3 red dice. Not quite, but almost. And you'll still have some tokens if you decide to boost or barrel roll.

Something else cool to muse about: Juking Proton Torpedoes. Either with the Init 5 pilot taking a Lock, or maybe Anakin with Instinctive Aim. Maybe baby Ani doesn't get a Force Talent yet, specifically so folks can't InstA.

To that end, we chant: "Points and Slots."

Carry on the legacy, dear child! Now, time to start a post....

2 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

The difference is with the interaction - leia interacts solely with my ships, and my opponent sees that.

Sloane interacts with my opponent's ships, and the only way to avoid interaction is not shoot anything but the sloane carrier.

But only one gives your opponent a choice. Attani only interacted with my ships. Also, my ability only procs if a ship dies and I give up MoV is a pretty big drawback.