8 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

So the breakeven is at 1 Evade and 1 Reinforce. However the results are so close that they are statistically insignificant. 

Right and the common case is only stripping reinforce:
http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi_preset/?d=gUABAAAAAAAA&a1=AgM

There's a ~15-20% ish chance of them spending a token anyways to avoid a second jam (equivalent), but a bunch of the token spending there is also likely tied up in the 15% (!) chance to straight dodge the jam shot as well. Obviously if it gets dodged it would have been the same either way, but it does skew the "jam" results because in 15% of those cases they'd *still* have the reinforce.

Like you said, it's so close though that I'm happy to just round it to "never" and avoid tempting people to make bad choices.

Beside the "it takes up weight in my backpack and board space" arguments are indisputably strong in comparison to its value

1 minute ago, punkUser said:

Right and the common case is only stripping reinforce:
http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi_preset/?d=gUABAAAAAAAA&a1=AgM
There's a ~15-20% ish chance of them spending a token anyways to avoid a second jam (equivalent), but a bunch of the token spending there is also likely tied up in the 15% (!) chance to straight dodge the jam shot as well. Obviously if it gets dodged it would have been the same either way, but it does skew the "jam" results because in 15% of those cases they'd *still* have the reinforce.

Like you said, it's so close though that I'm happy to just round it to "never" and avoid tempting people to make bad choices.

Beside the "it takes up weight in my backpack and board space" arguments are indisputably strong in comparison to its value

Also the most common case is a ship with only a reinforce. You only get the crazy token stacking on the initial UUU engage. I would argue from a tactical perspective that you are better off jamming everything if you are shooting first just to survive the alpha.

Not dying is a great way to beat UUU.

2 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

Also the most common case is a ship with only a reinforce. You only get the crazy token stacking on the initial UUU engage. I would argue from a tactical perspective that you are better off jamming everything if you are shooting first just to survive the alpha.



Not dying is a great way to beat UUU.

Give that a try on the board 10x and see which works better And then listen to the mynock episode psychology portion on loss aversion

I don't think stripping their focus and/or lock is gonna be worth how much further you still end up behind them at the start of the game...

2 minutes ago, punkUser said:

Give that a try on the board 10x and see which works better And then listen to the mynock episode psychology portion on loss aversion

I don't think stripping their focus and/or lock is gonna be worth how much further you still end up behind them at the start of the game...

I will have to give that a listen, but purely from a math perspective the dmg out on 4 dice against 2 (focused) die goes from 2.5 to <1 when you take away the focus lock.

Obviously you want to be in a position to take advantage the next turn, but taking 2 dmg and then being able to capitalize the rest of the game is better than taking >5 dmg. Even if it takes two turns to position right, you are talking 4 dmg vs 10 dmg. That is the difference between having all of your guns firing and losing a ship (or two).

Yes, I will agree that jamming beam can lead to a lot of mistakes, but having it free does raise the skill ceiling. Because knowing when to use in that 1% case can eek out that win to go 5-1 vs 4-2.

There is also the argument that just having it there and never using can cause your opponents to make a mistake.

3 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

Obviously you want to be in a position to take advantage the next turn, but taking 2 dmg and then being able to capitalize the rest of the game is better than taking >5 dmg. Even if it takes two turns to position right, you are talking 4 dmg vs 10 dmg. That is the difference between having all of your guns firing and losing a ship (or two). 

You don't strip both focus and lock a large percentage of the time in one shot... in fact if that's actually better then the ups just spends an evade and you never do. And even if it only has reinforce you only strip 2 tokens 26% of the time.

25 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Upsides of bringing jamming beam:

• you might find the weird edge case scenario where it's worth it.

Downsides of bringing jamming beam:

• bringing the extra card means you thought you had your whole list but you forgot a card
• jamming beam falls off the table inconsequentially, but also drags another card to the floor so it gets lost
• wasted physical work in carrying around at least one extra card around all day
• tempted to make bad decisions all day

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

TLDR: Not worth it

1 minute ago, punkUser said:

You don't strip both focus and lock a large percentage of the time in one shot... in fact if that's actually better then the ups just spends an evade and you never do.

Talking about multiple jam shots.

4 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

Talking about multiple jam shots.

I know but you can't consistently jam all of that off of 2 upsilons with 3 ships; even with 4 it's not super likely if they have evade tokens.

And again where do you end up from this? You've done literally zero damage to their list and likely still lost a ship (or close to it at least) for your trouble since you probably had to spend focus on attack to get to this point as well. I think I'd still take some progress on one of the upsilons TBH

There's some even more niche edge cases perhaps with Tavson since jam doesn't trigger his ability, but we're so deep into "not worth thinking about" at this point I think the point has been made...

I feel like someone wants to still play Redline.

34 minutes ago, Brunas said:

• tempted to make bad decisions all day

I don't see how that's different from my normal life.

8 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I feel like someone wants to still play Redline.

There is a ship for that.

1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

There is a ship for that.

yes... redline.

44 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Upsides of bringing jamming beam:

• you might find the weird edge case scenario where it's worth it.

Downsides of bringing jamming beam:

• bringing the extra card means you thought you had your whole list but you forgot a card
• jamming beam falls off the table inconsequentially, but also drags another card to the floor so it gets lost
• wasted physical work in carrying around at least one extra card around all day
• tempted to make bad decisions all day
• people debate whether or not to bring a free card

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Added one! Next?

21 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Added one! Next?

new krayt bounty? put jamming beam on things that don't have cannon slots, in hyperspace, and see if anyone cares

Just now, Brunas said:

new krayt bounty? put jamming beam on things that don't have cannon slots, in hyperspace, and see if anyone cares

Event level requirement?

2 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Event level requirement?

I'm tempted to make krayt cup 4 require jamming beam on literally every ship, and then how often they were actually used. SURELY there would be at least one case. Jamming beam howlrunner would maybe not be terrible?

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

I'm tempted to make krayt cup 4 require jamming beam on literally every ship, and then how often they were actually used. SURELY there would be at least one case. Jamming beam howlrunner would maybe not be terrible?

The problem is people will use it... and then self-justify its use.

mediator/judge required.

Just now, Tlfj200 said:

The problem is people will use it... and then self-justify its use.

mediator/judge required.

when you use jamming beam, you're required to call a judge over and get a third party opinion for whether or not it's a good idea?

Absolute dankest timeline.

2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I'm tempted to make krayt cup 4 require jamming beam on literally every ship, and then how often they were actually used. SURELY there would be at least one case. Jamming beam howlrunner would maybe not be terrible?

That was my next question....does it have to be used?

I see nothing wrong with an A-Wing swarm jamming everything and nothing dying.

Extra points for firing jamming beam out rear arc on A-Wings.

Everyone is Krassis! kinda.

6 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Extra points for firing jamming beam out rear arc on A-Wings.

Everyone is Krassis! kinda.

slap outmaneuver on them to reduce the agility when you fire your cannon out of the rear arc.

1 minute ago, jagsba said:

slap outmaneuver on them to reduce the agility when you fire your cannon out of the rear arc.

0-point upgrades only, plz! Bring back 0-point 1.0 Trickshot! (no one wants that)

20 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Bring back 0-point 1.0 Trickshot! (no one wants that)

are you sure? people are unironically rabbling for a vader with both talent and force power a couple threads down.

Just now, jagsba said:

are you sure? people are unironically rabbling for a vader with both talent and force power a couple threads down.

GIVE ME MY TOKEN STACK

PURPLE EVADES ARE TRASH

ALSO CAN I PLEASE HAVE THE OPTION TO SPEND A FORCE FOR AN EVADE ON VADER

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

When you guys talk about, and heckle, people using jamming beam on the next podcast, I'm going to feel personally attacked.