11 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:I don't need him to break the game, but I do need him to be fun and powerful. I'd gladly pay 100 points for Vader, if he could pull his weight. (Vader in a Defender Elite when?)
And there was much weeping and gnashing of teeth, for the Lord Vader did not fulfill his acolytes power fantasy of skilless skill. And the unwashed masses looked upon a game without Vader in a defender, and there was much rejoicing.
1 minute ago, jagsba said:And there was much weeping and gnashing of teeth, for the Lord Vader did not fulfill his acolytes power fantasy of skilless skill. And the unwashed masses looked upon a game without Vader in a defender, and there was much rejoicing.
I don't know what I'd pay for Vader in a defender. An Academy is 23, and Supernatural is 32, so I guess 145 is my answer?
Just now, Brunas said:I don't know what I'd pay for Vader in a defender. An Academy is 23, and Supernatural is 32, so I guess 145 is my answer?
Is SNR better than dropping to AdvS and a bid to beat other dVaders?
Just now, jagsba said:Is SNR better than dropping to AdvS and a bid to beat other dVaders?
wait, I thought only I got this vader
THE REST OF YOU CAN'T HAVE HIM I'M NOT PLAYING AGAINST THAT
31 minutes ago, jagsba said:Is SNR better than dropping to AdvS and a bid to beat other dVaders?
I mean I thought we were going full in on the Defender chassis as is right now. SNR, Collision Detector, and Prockets are the stuff I'd pile onto Vader in a defender.
31 minutes ago, RStan said:I mean I thought we were going full in on the Defender chassis as is right now. SNR, Collision Detector, and Prockets are the stuff I'd pile onto Vader in a defender.
Don't forget the HLC! Even a player as bad as me should be able to line that up.
51 minutes ago, RStan said:I mean I thought we were going full in on the Defender chassis as is right now. SNR, Collision Detector, and Prockets are the stuff I'd pile onto Vader in a defender.
bold of you to assume that you have the points for that build
But can a lone Vader Defender beat UpsUpsUps?
3 minutes ago, Makaze said:But can a lone Vader Defender beat UpsUpsUps?
Yes?
3-4 dice Focus+Evade+Force is hard to chew through. He'll take 2-3 damage.
Then he desperately tries to not get halved without killing 2 ups first.
On 2/4/2019 at 7:56 PM, skotothalamos said:my research indicates old points were used, but the streaming software displayed new points.
You are correct. Lists were to be submitted on the 27th, and points came out on the 28th. The Tournament took place the 2nd and 3rd of February. I was going to go but heavy snow and rainy days ruined my family trip, so i had to cancel it... I watched some games on stream was surprised I saw lots more First Order than I thought there would be, I think the point adjustment messed up the few little tricks they had (Tie SFs with homing missiles, Squad Leader/Swarm tactics Null, SNR Kylo...) In fact i think most First order lists had Null... I’ll try to post a link to the Top16 lists, but I’m on my phone, so I don’t know if I’ll be able to
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15jY5Q4eSB2HUr9qhEn5dQm3sBF6NgSARDwgm2NfVGZ0/htmlview
Ok I think I got it
Edited by RoockieBoy2 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:Yes?
3-4 dice Focus+Evade+Force is hard to chew through. He'll take 2-3 damage.
Then he desperately tries to not get halved without killing 2 ups first.
It's the 3rd bit I don't believe. It will take him 4-5 turns per Ups and and he can't dodge all 3 arcs consistently so they'll plink him at least couple more times because if nothing else they can roll 4 hits and he can only roll 3 evades...
Also was more just a commentary about how I've been feeling this week. I thought I'd be excited by the points changes but the main thought running through my head when list building has been "Will it beat UpsUpsUps?" and since the answer is generally a very hard no the list feels pointless. Bleh
1 hour ago, Makaze said:It's the 3rd bit I don't believe. It will take him 4-5 turns per Ups and and he can't dodge all 3 arcs consistently so they'll plink him at least couple more times because if nothing else they can roll 4 hits and he can only roll 3 evades...
Also was more just a commentary about how I've been feeling this week. I thought I'd be excited by the points changes but the main thought running through my head when list building has been "Will it beat UpsUpsUps?" and since the answer is generally a very hard no the list feels pointless. Bleh
So I have to ask what type of list you’ve been thinking about, because typically that type of thinking will get you in the salt mines very quickly. Sure, tripUps are the current bogeyman, but you’ll never face them if you’re explicitly building a counter to them, because chances are your counter looses hard to something else.
I am going to ask a very dumb question (feel free to stop reading now).
What are people’s thoughts on triple bounty hunters vs UpUpUp? At R3 with reinforce, you should keep all your firepower for the second round of combat, and there’s even two points for Tobias Beckett to move a rock and change lanes for further combat (if they didn’t bring collision detector, at least).
Probably you lose to a bunch of other lists, but it seems like it would be fun to fly!
/end dumb
10 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:I am going to ask a very dumb question (feel free to stop reading now).
What are people’s thoughts on triple bounty hunters vs UpUpUp? At R3 with reinforce, you should keep all your firepower for the second round of combat, and there’s even two points for Tobias Beckett to move a rock and change lanes for further combat (if they didn’t bring collision detector, at least).
Probably you lose to a bunch of other lists, but it seems like it would be fun to fly!
/end dumb
Probably not any better/worse than triple or Quad U-wing.
12 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:Probably not any better/worse than triple or Quad U-wing.
Yes but rear arc = glue. I don’t want to think about where my ships need to be! I love arcs so much I brought six!
Edited by PaulRuddSays40 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:Yes but rear arc = glue. I don’t want to think about where my ships need to be! I love arcs so much I brought six!
Bring 10. Ywings with turrets.
1 hour ago, LagJanson said:Bring 10. Ywings with turrets.
Proton bombs for everyone too!
7 hours ago, LagJanson said:Bring 10. Ywings with turrets.
Says the guy with a Y-Wing avatar 😂
at R3 you only get eight arcs because you lost one 2/3 of the time... god help you at R2, where you’re going to lose one 95% of the time. Bounty hunter has the benefit of reinforce, which means that he only needs a handful of evades across multiple attacks to survive the worst of it.
Youd get dumpstered across the board by everything else though, I think.
9 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:Probably not any better/worse than triple or Quad U-wing.
What if I told you could bring quad U-Wings that could spin for no stress and dump rigged cargo chutes.
17 hours ago, Brunas said:I don't know what I'd pay for Vader in a defender. An Academy is 23, and Supernatural is 32, so I guess 145 is my answer?
I feel like the only real place for a Vader Defender is as some sort of special-purpose Quickbuild. That way, he can be a 6 threat ship or such without the most abusive upgrades, but still super scary.
Likewise, Han Solo Lambda Shuttle would have to be there, with at least Chewie, Leia, and (mostly useless on a Lambda) Luke gunner.
On 2/4/2019 at 2:03 PM, Boom Owl said:Im happy to see some players are finally using the Create Your Own Format feature in the App.
This is the Hyperspace version I messed with. 200 pts. Not convinced Hate Vader needs FCS at all. He has so many force charges anyway. Can swap vermiel for Afterburner lone wolf Duchess, Countdown, or Sabacc as well. Its fun.
Darth Vader — TIE Advanced x1 65 Hate 3 Fire-Control System 2 Proton Rockets 7 Afterburners 6 Ship Total: 83 Half Points: 42 Threshold: 3 Major Vermeil — TIE Reaper 49 Death Troopers 6 Ship Total: 55 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 4 Maarek Stele — TIE Advanced x1 46 Crack Shot 1 Fire-Control System 2 Proton Rockets 7 Afterburners 6 Ship Total: 62 Half Points: 31 Threshold: 3
I flew a variant of this last night (Composure Feroph instead of Vermeil, traded Vader's FCS for Elusive on Maarek), and it was a bunch of fun. Two Proton Rockets were able to one-round a Y-Wing, and that was after Maarek got blocked.
Relatedly, if Veteran Turret Gunner Y-Wings mess up their range control even a little, things can go very bad for them. They're so much worse at Range 3... 😨
17 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:I don't need him to break the game, but I do need him to be fun and powerful. I'd gladly pay 100 points for Vader, if he could pull his weight. (Vader in a Defender Elite when?)
But my dream of a squad of Juking x1 with Accuracy Corrector is dead! Also, with a mediocre dial and fickle defenses it doesn't take much to cripple/kill an x1, an evade action can help mitigate that by guaranteeing at least one evade result.
Vader: I think the current crop of cheap Vaders (Hate, FCS, Afterburners to taste) all seem kinda decent. As a ship close-ish to 74 points, I think that's an amount of weight he could pull. White (or even Red) Evade would of course have been a powerful addition, but my first impression is that he's not unplayable. I think Vader is more like a loaded Wedge than a pre-adjustment Whisper. Not in playstyle (action efficiency vs torpedo, FIGHT!), but in terms of how he defines a list, or fits into the broader world of balance. A kinda good ship, but not meta-warping.
Evade: Yeah, I loved AccC x1s, but Juke ones won't work without the AccC! I guess I mostly mean that an evade action wouldn't have fixed the fact that they were just too expensive, and too reliant on lock actions.
13 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:
Relatedly, if Veteran Turret Gunner Y-Wings mess up their range control even a little, things can go very bad for them. They're so much worse at Range 3...
Afterburner Y-wings!
6 minutes ago, Biophysical said:Afterburner Y-wings!
I am actually considering Afterburner Norra with Ion for 51 points.
1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:i flew a variant of this last night (Composure Feroph
...wait. is there some degenerate interaction here I'm unaware of!?
5 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:...wait. is there some degenerate interaction here I'm unaware of!?
The only thing that I can think of is sort of a 1 point insurance when trying to jam/coordinate and you aren't quite sure if they are in range.
7 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:...wait. is there some degenerate interaction here I'm unaware of!?
No, I just didn't want to mess up Jams. 
Never actually came up.
Just now, Scott Pilgrim2 said:The only thing that I can think of is sort of a 1 point insurance when trying to jam/coordinate and you aren't quite sure if they are in range.
Alas, with red coordinate, you'd be stressed and couldn't Composure.
Edited by theBitterFig