Just now, Biophysical said:

You caught me before I amended my comment to specify after deployment.

GOTCHA!

3 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Don't think we don't see that Swarm Tactics Null.

👀

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Of course not, but I didn't say that either. You know what I come to play xwing for? Definitely not to adjust what I want to play because there is a combination of cards that's very hard to solve.

So clearly, figuring out how to keep playing what I like without drawing an autoloss in that one matchup is feasible?

3 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Part of me regards the Trip Ups list with more than a little bit of affection. I know it's a rampantly efficient list with overwhelming firepower and a huge deployment advantage, but it's a pure jousting list. It doesn't rely on any kind of responsiveness or tricks or perfect information (after deployment, at least).

Ok

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I think theres a big difference between talking about Trip Upsilons and Forward Deployed on Rocks Dormitz Upsilons. Both are solvable puzzles but I have alot more patience for one than the other.

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

I know. I feel like without either Dormitz OR Hyperspace it would be a really interesting list. One of those seems fine.

This.

i don’t care that there’s 3 upsilons.

i care that they start halfway across the board with a full token stack with essentially unavoidable shots.

’jousting’ list with no opt out or counterplay.

Neat puzzle.

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I think trying to solve the puzzle without adjusting the list is more interesting. Adjusting the list for a specific problem feels like a concession and avoiding that feels superior.

Rotate the ships in your finger 4+1 setup to face towards the opposite board side (left if setting up right, right if setting up left) maybe? They'll be setting up after you so you can adjust your turn 1 maneuvering + actions to where they setup. I'm thinking (1) hard out if they set up directly above (2) hook inside team towards the closest side and hard out towards opposite edge outside team if they set up middle of their edge, or (3) hook back towards starting side (left or right) if they setup kitty corner to intercept a hard out. I can't guarantee it'll work %100 but it should counter their turn 1 opening salvo. From there it is down to dodge and nip (through their inane combined health pool) and hoping to not go to final salvo (which a few of the TripUps players bank on happening).

45 minutes ago, gennataos said:

How many people do we need to thank for this? No way BCP is capable of this. I saw lists which were official App screenshots.

It's even worse than that - my personal favorite was someone taking pictures of their lists on someone elses phone. So it's not even a screenshot, it's literally a set of images of the official app on ANOTHER phone.

edit: forgot to include my snarky "please make sure and buy BCP turbo premium edition to access to such extremely valuable and well formatted list info"

3 minutes ago, Brunas said:

edit: forgot to include my snarky "please make sure and buy BCP turbo premium edition to access to such extremely valuable and well formatted list info"

I will say it was really nice to be able to follow the event with rankings, pairings and lists (albeit some displayed in a far more janky way than others). Course, tabletop.to does in a way nicer manner, but whatever. I'll take what I can get.

I don't know why I'm hanging out here now, Lord knows I will have a hard enough time doing work when points actually drop.

4 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

You know what I come to play xwing for?

puzzles that don’t look like dog fighting!

I ain't even mad, that was amazing.

I did say that after all about puzzles, but I was more fixed on your "not looking like dogfighting". I guess I like puzzles if they can be solved without adjusting the squad. And if I can keep my squad that looks like it's dogfighting then I have no problems with starting a game that has a puzzle as first turn.

Just now, Biophysical said:

I don't know why I'm hanging out here now, Lord knows I will have a hard enough time doing work when points actually drop.

#metoo

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

I don't know why I'm hanging out here now, Lord knows I will have a hard enough time doing work when points actually drop.

Unfortunately today, I haven't been given anything to do yet. I was hoping it was the other way around when I could take care of everything early to not do anything later.

Just now, Biophysical said:

I don't know why I'm hanging out here now, Lord knows I will have a hard enough time doing work when points actually drop.

I clinging to the joy of anticipation before inevitable disappointment when they do drop. It's not dissimilar to the feeling I get before a tournament.

Huh.

Luckily I can multi-task. Send an email, read forums.

I'm just going to call it now:

If I could replace RZ-2/Han Gunner complaining with "App-related dumpster fire", I'd be happy to predict a full set for all of them.

9 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Rotate the ships in your finger 4+1 setup to face towards the opposite board side (left if setting up right, right if setting up left) maybe? They'll be setting up after you so you can adjust your turn 1 maneuvering + actions to where they setup. I'm thinking (1) hard out if they set up directly above (2) hook inside team towards the closest side and hard out towards opposite edge outside team if they set up middle of their edge, or (3) hook back towards starting side (left or right) if they setup kitty corner to intercept a hard out. I can't guarantee it'll work %100 but it should counter their turn 1 opening salvo. From there it is down to dodge and nip (through their inane combined health pool) and hoping to not go to final salvo (which a few of the TripUps players bank on happening).

Maybe we move that to the awing thread instead? I also have a hard time following, but that might be partially from my headache after watching xwing all weekend at unholy times.

10 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I ain't even mad, that was amazing.

I did say that after all about puzzles, but I was more fixed on your "not looking like dogfighting". I guess I like puzzles if they can be solved without adjusting the squad. And if I can keep my squad that looks like it's dogfighting then I have no problems with starting a game that has a puzzle as first turn.

Good for you.

This just looks like a 2.0 dengaroo.

Unbeatable? Absolutely not.

Massively warping what everyone plays? Yep.

5 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Unbeatable? Absolutely not.

Massively warping what everyone plays? Yep.

That was the entire question though. Does it have to be warping? I'm not yet convinced. Maybe not, maybe adjusting tactics can be enough. That's what I want to know.

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

That was the entire question though. Does it have to be warping? I'm not yet convinced. Maybe not, maybe adjusting tactics can be enough. That's what I want to know.

walk me through your tactics of avoiding it then.

This image from someone else sums things up pretty well.

Your best bet is to go somewhere you only have to defend against 1 of the 4 dice shots.

Doing that while being able to take a shot of your own is difficult.

Finding those green spots is "knowable" but you have to choose ( the upsilons can 3 bank or do something besides a 2 straight...)

So at minimum you can make them "choose" and hopefully bank the wrong way?

That warps the meta to ships that can get entirely out of Arc early.

Or lists that have a ship which can afford to trade early. Not a long list.

I want to see Rocks allowed to block the Dormitz Deployment. Let me build a wall.

Moralo Eval will murder triple Upsilons on his own Too bad he's not in Hyperspace

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

That was the entire question though. Does it have to be warping? I'm not yet convinced. Maybe not, maybe adjusting tactics can be enough. That's what I want to know.

"How bad is it" is an interesting question. It APPEARS that any list with jam (as long as people are following the rules on how jam is supposed to work...) absolutely dumpster it, as well as high ship count lists in general.

That being said, factions with easy access to jam in hyperspace is basically just Empire and Scum. Is that enough to distort a meta so people are scared to bring trip upsilons?

4 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

This is all wrong.

They should be deployed at banks to have the ability to go further. Also, have collision detector so there's literally no counterplay on rocks. The banks also (as far as I know) put you into no solution territory on avoiding turn one two double modded 4-5 dice shots, but I haven't tried literally everything yet.

I mean in hyperspace, which is where the Uuups are more effective, do you think 2 dice swarms can exist? Whether it's TIE swarms, TIE FOs, or the eventual Vultures of the Separatists. That much health with reinforce and basically immune to 2 dice damage in the first turn snowballs that game early. Yeah the number of ships helps push the damage and the Uuups don't have a specific target to focus on, but it's the time available in the rest of the game to actually get half or kill a whole Upsilon that I believe is the issue.

The hardest part of the Ooops Puzzle is figuring out if you want a less optimal turn 1 or turn 2. Cuz a lot of options that keep you somewhat safe in turn 1 make turn 2 pretty clench worthy. Sort of a pick your poison option there.

GIVE US NEW POINTS!!!!!

4 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

walk me through your tactics of avoiding it then.

I wish I could, but as I said:

7 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

That's what I want to know.