1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

Last minutes point adjustment musings: do proton torpedo really deserve a point increase as so many people apparently are calling it? They are by far the best ordnance, but that doesn't mean much considering the competition is non-existant...

If FFG raise the point cost of the most abusable proton carriers (I'm looking at you Redline, Deathrain, Kavil with Han Gunner and Wedge) and maaaybe Jendon, would proton still need an increase?

You said it yourself, they are far better than the alternatives. There's no reason to take the other torpedoes. You could drop the points of those, but given that proton torpedoes are the most used upgrade by a mile (way more than even S-Foils) they seem like a valid target.

1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

Last minutes point adjustment musings: do proton torpedo really deserve a point increase as so many people apparently are calling it? They are by far the best ordnance, but that doesn't mean much considering the competition is non-existant...

If FFG raise the point cost of the most abusable proton carriers (I'm looking at you Redline, Deathrain, Kavil with Han Gunner and Wedge) and maaaybe Jendon, would proton still need an increase?

In extended I'm less concerned as there are better counters and alternatives to that format.

In Hyperspace, absolutely. Yes. They need to go UP UP UP. The damage output they offer to a handful of high initiative pilots is somewhat oppressive to low health/low initiative ships.

1 minute ago, apoapsis said:

You said it yourself, they are far better than the alternatives. There's no reason to take the other torpedoes. You could drop the points of those, but given that proton torpedoes are the most used upgrade by a mile (way more than even S-Foils) they seem like a valid target.

But I don't think it's the point cost that makes Proton Torp the best ordnance: others are situational in the best case and straight up **** most of the time.

Maybe if they would also drop points on proton rockets, but that's it

1 minute ago, viedit said:

In extended I'm less concerned as there are better counters and alternatives to that format.

In Hyperspace, absolutely. Yes. They need to go UP UP UP. The damage output they offer to a handful of high initiative pilots is somewhat oppressive to low health/low initiative ships.

Even if these high init pilots will get up too?

Just now, Sunitsa said:

But I don't think it's the point cost that makes Proton Torp the best ordnance: others are situational in the best case and straight up **** most of the time.

Maybe if they would also drop points on proton rockets, but that's it 

The amount they are used distorts the meta further in favour of high initiative pilots as they increase the chance of PS-killing lower initiative ships, which is way more important in second edition when defensive abilities are much weaker. On the other side, being high initiative gives you a better chance of avoiding that damage. The only low pilot skill ( < I5) ships that have been able to compete until now have very strong control elements/built in abilities. At the very least recosting them hurts the bid of high initiative squads.

4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

It's the hill of (maybe unpopular) opinion I'll die on. I have some magnetized ships, and I know that they get weaker over time. I also believe that Farmer did not once think the ship was pointed to a direction that it wasn't. And I don't want to point at the winner here.

But if just one guy over the whole weekend fell for it once then it's unsportsmanlike behavior. That's all it needs. I've seen it at the SO in Hannover last year where more than one guy fell for it. And at least there, the ships were consistently pointing in a wrong direction for more than one game for more than one person.

Ships facing the wrong direction is a potential source of unforced errors and could give an advantage. And this one is both seriously frustrating if someone falls for it and potentially very bad.

So what you’re saying is we need floor rules? I can get onboard with that.

15 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

So what you’re saying is we need floor rules? I can get onboard with that.

Well yes. But until we get them social pressure is probably the most efficient action. That doesn't have to be ill willed. A friendly "cool, magnetized! Just make sure they face the right way please, thanks" should be enough. And I am pretty sure it is.

16 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

So what you’re saying is we need floor rules? I can get onboard with that.

Floor rule #1: calculate trajectory based on firing arc. Its wayyyyy more accurate even with proper pegs, thanks to components having varying quality.

Floor rule #2: don't trigger my OCD. Unless we're bumping, don't fly a ship without its model for more than 1 turn. I came to play space battles, not merely to look at squares. Similarly, I WILL ALWAYS CORRECT YOUR MAGNETIZED SHIPS UNLESS YOU HAVE DONE A BARREL ROLL. Let me keep this thematic

Floor rule #3: This is not satire, but my actual feelings on models and such.

2 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

Last minutes point adjustment musings: do proton torpedo really deserve a point increase as so many people apparently are calling it? They are by far the best ordnance, but that doesn't mean much considering the competition is non-existant...

If FFG raise the point cost of the most abusable proton carriers (I'm looking at you Redline, Deathrain, Kavil with Han Gunner and Wedge) and maaaybe Jendon, would proton still need an increase?

Depends on how much they raise them?

I’m also not convinced that pulling Protons from Hyperspace is a worse idea than keeping them in at the wrong price level.

I liked the suggestion if swapping Protons with APT in hyperspace.

13 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

I liked the suggestion if swapping Protons with APT in hyperspace.

I wish APT were hyperspace legal. Nien + PA + APT sounds nasty.

On magnets: I did mine so my kids could play without breaking peg after peg. It worked. It's also awesome when you get a furball going and you can just tip the ship out of the way instead of removing it. It's much less likely to move the base by mistake.

Some of ours have weakening magnets, which is unfortunate, but since my kids are now older, I can set up pegs with a flat metal disc instead of a ball, which allows rotation, but prevents wobbling.

All in all, would recommend and would do again.

5 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

I wish APT were hyperspace legal. Nien + PA + APT sounds nasty.

Him and Lt. Fire Control System with APT's....

What if 2/3 of my list were also Fenn Rau? Careful man....you're gonna hurt somebody.

2 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

Last minutes point adjustment musings: do proton torpedo really deserve a point increase as so many people apparently are calling it? They are by far the best ordnance, but that doesn't mean much considering the competition is non-existant...

If FFG raise the point cost of the most abusable proton carriers (I'm looking at you Redline, Deathrain, Kavil with Han Gunner and Wedge) and maaaybe Jendon, would proton still need an increase?

My boring answer is I don't even know what "deserve" means. They're being run so much that you should always expect to be playing against them, which gets stale pretty quickly.

I don't like munitions though, if they were all bad you'd hear no complaints from me. The target lock mechanic punishes low initiative ships too much.

Oh yeah:

System Open Lists: https://listfortress.com/tournaments/268

Hyperspace Qualifier Lists: https://listfortress.com/tournaments/271

3 minutes ago, Brunas said:

My boring answer is I don't even know what "deserve" means. They're being run so much that you should always expect to be playing against them, which gets stale pretty quickly.

I don't like munitions though, if they were all bad you'd hear no complaints from me. The target lock mechanic punishes low initiative ships too much.

What if proton rockets where not bullseye? It would be an option for low initiative ships to get around that mechanic.

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

Oh yeah:

System Open Lists: https://listfortress.com/tournaments/268

Hyperspace Qualifier Lists: https://listfortress.com/tournaments/271

The amount of NotTavson Upsilons is funny.

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

Oh yeah:

System Open Lists: https://listfortress.com/tournaments/268

Hyperspace Qualifier Lists: https://listfortress.com/tournaments/271

How many people do we need to thank for this? No way BCP is capable of this. I saw lists which were official App screenshots.

11 minutes ago, Brunas said:

My boring answer is I don't even know what "deserve" means. They're being run so much that you should always expect to be playing against them, which gets stale pretty quickly.

I don't like munitions though, if they were all bad you'd hear no complaints from me. The target lock mechanic punishes low initiative ships too much.

Really stupid thought from my lack of coffee brain....

But what if you had to declare a target lock on a ship as your action before you move, measure and see if it's within range. Then move, and if you complete the move successfully you may acquire the lock.

It's sort of janky, but it really makes you think about action choices a bit more and target selection.

If you are stressed you aren't able to declare the action before moving.

If you are stressed after the move you aren't able to get the action (unless something else like PA is involved).

Just now, gennataos said:

How many people do we need to thank for this? No way BCP is capable of this. I saw lists which were official App screenshots.

IIRC from convos in kraytcordTM, it was:

@Brunas

@Boom Owl

@RStan

@RynoZero

And probably some others I missed on data entry

8 minutes ago, Brunas said:

The target lock mechanic punishes low initiative ships too much.

Hmm. This has probably been suggested before, but what if when you choose a target lock action (at your initiative), you don't actually acquire it until the end of the activation phase. When my I2 activates, I put my lock token by my ship, and after everyone activates, I put the token on the ship I want to lock. Yeah, I could still get PS-killed, but if I dont, i could at least get a decent shot back.

What are the dozens of unintended consequences I am not seeing?

4 minutes ago, gennataos said:

How many people do we need to thank for this? No way BCP is capable of this. I saw lists which were official App screenshots.

There were a number of dedicated individuals handcentering stuff from the BCP app.

2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Hyperspace Qualifier Lists: https://listfortress.com/tournaments/271

115 lists... 35 Upsilons?

2 minutes ago, viedit said:

Really stupid thought from my lack of coffee brain....

But what if you had to declare a target lock on a ship as your action before you move, measure and see if it's within range. Then move, and if you complete the move successfully you may acquire the lock.

It's sort of janky, but it really makes you think about action choices a bit more and target selection.

This doesn't really change the paradigm that the ship moving last can start outside of R3 and move into R3

Just now, svelok said:

115 lists... 35 Upsilons?

This doesn't really change the paradigm that the ship moving last can start outside of R3 and move into R3

Yes it does.

Before you move, if you aren't in range 3 you aren't getting the lock. You measure for distance before you move. It gives low init ships the opportunity to at least range control and not be within R3 before the other ship moves.

1 minute ago, viedit said:

Yes it does.

Before you move, if you aren't in range 3 you aren't getting the lock. You measure for distance before you move. It gives low init ships the opportunity to at least range control and not be within R3 before the other ship moves.

Low init ship doesn't have R3, moves. High init ship now has range 3.