3 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

i'd argue non-BB8 is way higher skill, since you don't get pre-dial moves.

I agree, I don't think of non-BB8 Poe, or really anything in 2.0 as a 1-straight to victory sort of ship. I wasnt clear enough maybe.

16 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

The point increase to make your generic Bounty Hunter into Boba fett is 3 points lower than the cost to make an Academy into Howl or Iden.

The cost to go from i1 to i3 on a striker is the same to go from i3 to i5 (and get Duchess's ability) on a Striker.

Naked, Boba costs less than naked Kylo.

What the **** man.

I wonder if Kylo is coming down or if they priced the new factions with the 28th in mind.

Having played almost nothing but Poe + a-wings since wave 2 dropped, my experience shows that R4 is way, way better. Maybe even way better at the same price point.

R4 works forever, and means that if you get Poe to the endgame, even limping on 1h, he's still at full powah. Also, taking focus + lock or focus + reposition every round is just so strong if you can also turn 90+ degrees. Honestly, bb-8 seemed to get me into trouble more than getting me out of it.

Some of that is confounded with the exact Poe I'm running. Lone Wolf and no torps means I don't crave locks as much if I can Dodge arcs. I am flying a 94-96 point Poe (and that is Poe with r4 and hlc), so I'm naturally extremely careful with him, but he still gets blocked and shot. But as long as he's not tanking multiple good shots, he can get out. And he draws SO MUCH AGGRO.

33 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I'm still just laughing at supernatural reflexes/pre-nerf whisper being described as hard and high skill.

That being said, bb8 appears you need primed stapled, and primed also costs a billion points, so at least it's expensive enough to not be stapled?

Too many replies to wanna catch 'em all, so I'll just grab the first.

To be clear, I don't consider the use of BB-8 high skill, I considered managing Poe's ability and the stress it brings in such a manner as to be as efficient as R4 to be high skill.

And, yeah, I tried PT...what a pricey tax to Boost/BR twice a game! OUT!

2 minutes ago, impspy said:

I wonder if Kylo is coming down or if they priced the new factions with the 28th in mind.

They sure didn't price the chassis correctly, that's for sure. Oof.

I don't want to have to fly squads of 5 named ships or Boba if I want to be able to joust.

3 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

Lone Wolf

Such an incredible card. Why no one use?

1 minute ago, gennataos said:

Too many replies to wanna catch 'em all, so I'll just grab the first.

To be clear, I don't consider the use of BB-8 high skill, I considered managing Poe's ability and the stress it brings in such a manner as to be as efficient as R4 to be high skill.

And, yeah, I tried PT...what a pricey tax to Boost/BR twice a game! OUT!

Oh, sorry, the laughing was pointed at mynocks recently, not what you said. I just still find it hilarious.

Just now, Boom Owl said:

Such an incredible card. Why no one use?

I guess because 2-ship lists are the best spot for it and most of us haven't tried 2-ship lists in a serious manner enough to vet them out? I have a Han/Poe list wherein Poe uses LW, but I've played it more for fun to deploy Han in the opposing deployment zone cuz that's silly.

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Such an incredible card. Why no one use?

I want a Talent on Vader so bad for this reason...

5 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I guess because 2-ship lists are the best spot for it and most of us haven't tried 2-ship lists in a serious manner enough to vet them out? I have a Han/Poe list wherein Poe uses LW, but I've played it more for fun to deploy Han in the opposing deployment zone cuz that's silly.

But even 3-4 ship builds its still crazy valuable. Do people shy away from it out of fear that its to "restrictive"?

Pretty much always triggers on initial engage. Get the right Lone Wolf thing to the end game when ship counts are down and it goes to work.

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

Oh, sorry, the laughing was pointed at mynocks recently, not what you said. I just still find it hilarious.

I didn't really think you were, wouldn't have been offended even if you did. I do deserve to be pointed at and laughed at a lot.

1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

But even 3-4 ship builds its still crazy valuable. Do people shy away from it out of fear that its to "restrictive"?

Get the right Lone Wolf thing to the end game when ship counts are down and it goes to work.

I think there's a lot of cards that, because they were nerfed from first edition, people are playing because they're using the 1.0 value as a reference point instead of comparing to how good they are in second edition.

@punkUser cough cough rigged cargo chute

1 minute ago, gennataos said:

I didn't really think you were, wouldn't have been offended even if you did. I do deserve to be pointed at and laughed at a lot.

alarmingly wholesome

@Boom Owl I assume people don't take Lone Wolf because it's that mindset of "I must use all upgrade cards I paid for all the time" and think it's too hard to keep them beyond range 2 in 3+ ship lists to make it work all the time all the while not realizing that it doesn't have to work all the time if it ends up making it to a favorable end game anyway. It's the same mindset of Rexlar Brath players not taking Adv Sensors because they can't get their evade token to use Juke if they reposition from adv sensors.

4 minutes ago, Brunas said:

 I think there's a lot of cards that, because they were nerfed from first edition, people are playing because they're using the 1.0 value as a reference point instead of comparing to how good they are in second edition.



 @punkUser cough cough rigged cargo chute

Such as:

Test Server Players Requested

On Lone Wolf - every ship I want to put lone wolf on is for defense, and Juke is the better defensive card.

Why aren't people putting it on Poe? Probably because they suck at math. It's not hard to stay out of range 2 of ships that shooting backwards or have white talon rolls.

17 minutes ago, RStan said:

@Boom Owl I assume people don't take Lone Wolf because it's that mindset of "I must use all upgrade cards I paid for all the time" and think it's too hard to keep them beyond range 2 in 3+ ship lists to make it work all the time all the while not realizing that it doesn't have to work all the time if it ends up making it to a favorable end game anyway. It's the same mindset of Rexlar Brath players not taking Adv Sensors because they can't get their evade token to use Juke if they reposition from adv sensors.

It elevates so many ships. Im sure i put it on stuff i shouldnt. Even Fang Fighters improve a bit with them though Fearless still feels the most correct.

More examples but I like to use Juke on Vermiel and Lone Wolf on Countdown/Duchess etc.

7 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

But even 3-4 ship builds its still crazy valuable. Do people shy away from it out of fear that its to "restrictive"?

Get the right Lone Wolf thing to the end game when ship counts are down and it goes to work.

4 minutes ago, Brunas said:

On Lone Wolf - every ship I want to put lone wolf on is for defense, and Juke is the better defensive card.

Why aren't people putting it on Poe? Probably because they suck at math. It's not hard to stay out of range 2 of ships that shooting backwards or have white talon rolls.

I've found my playstyle/approach/whatever doesn't net the benefits. It's worth considering more, though.

23 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Such an incredible card. Why no one use?

people are unironically afraid of charges

2 minutes ago, svelok said:

people are unironically afraid of charges

but it comes back?

Lone wolf on Poe is crazy good. It let's you reposition once and still get double mods on attack. Or, it let's you be tankier on defense as 2 again and focus gives you around 70% (that's a guess actually) of 2 evades. And with all his repositioning plus the fact that you have to fly him so carefully anyway, it's either triggering or you got into a better spot anyway.

5 minutes ago, Brunas said:

On Lone Wolf - every ship I want to put lone wolf on is for defense, and Juke is the better defensive card.

Juke is tricky though. In my opinion, it is only worth it on ships that can get a focus or lock in the same turn.

For lone wolf, my problem is exactly both of this:

10 minutes ago, RStan said:

people don't take Lone Wolf because it's that mindset of "I must use all upgrade cards I paid for all the time" and think it's too hard to keep them beyond range 2 in 3+ ship lists to make it work all the time all the while not realizing that it doesn't have to work all the time if it ends up making it to a favorable end game anyway.

I think the bold part is a very nice point. E.g. I think I should use as many upgrades as possible in the first engagement. The reasoning is simple: an engagement with part of your ships is always worse than an engagement with all of your ships. In the same vein, an engagement with part of your upgrades is worse than using more upgrades.

Now I'm wondering how much of that was true in the worst times of 1.0 combowing. Because one consequence is to use more ships with fewer upgrades. I'd guess that combowing in 1.0 still allowed to use most if not all upgrades at the same time. Thinking of FinalForm NymMiranda: obviously Harpoons and TLT were not used at the same time, but generally both were used. And to sprinkle some anecdote on top, I haven't lost a single game with my QDInqGunboat list where I could fire 3 Harpoons total. I.e., the more I would get out of these points the better my result. So after that superficial look I'd jump to the conclusion that combowing in 1.0 did allow to use as many upgrades as possible at the same time.

And going back to 2.0, I think that's why slim ships have again a place, because we do not have that many combowing upgrades anymore.
The squad of legend uses everything every turn: AdvS + Protontorp, Juke+Vader, and even Soontir tries hard to get the predator/crackshot off - if he even has it.

The nuance is now your "all the time".

In the end it boils down to how many uses do you need out of an upgrade to justify the points? The neverending discussions about heroic pivot around this, too.

7 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

In the end it boils down to how many uses do you need out of an upgrade to justify the points?

For me if Lone Wolf triggers on the first round of combat then it just increases from there in usefulness the longer the game goes on and the more other things get destroyed.

Are there games where I only get to use it once? Sure, but its not the wolfs fault, and unlike Heroic I have actual agency over its usefulness.

6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

In the end it boils down to how many uses do you need out of an upgrade to justify the points?

If it saves you one damage once, it's a 4 point shield upgrade. Seems good.

3 minutes ago, svelok said:

If it saves you one damage once, it's a 4 point shield upgrade. Seems good.

its also an interesting challenge to solve. Having to stay away from other ships but still engage logically turn to turn is really good for practice and forcing me to play differently. The forces you to play different thing feels like an actual bonus in a weird way.