Ironically, this is pretty much where I ended up when trying to assemble a Rebels list with just the Core Set + Saw's Renegades. Benthic really wants Advanced Sensors though.

6 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

 True that. And one of those doesnt damage itself. 

I'm not being clear. A partisan renegade with tac officer allows it to effectively "pass" a focus token without stress, same as benthic. Benthic *only* gains an added benefit if he can get something on top of the single focus from the focus action (for example, PerCop).

Saw crew provides some action economy for free, but I wasnt considering him in my comparison, as you could throw him on either. Though for me if I had 8 points to spare on a u-wing I'd take advanced sensors over saw.

4 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

Though for me if I had 8 points to spare on a u-wing I'd take advanced sensors over saw.

Makes sense. They do tend to bump alot and pivot.

Just now, Boom Owl said:

Makes sense. They do tend to bump alot and pivot.

Leia?

Leia, if she's a few points cheaper in two weeks?

I just really want Generic Strikers to be good.

38 gets you either a Black Squadron Scout... Or Lulo.

20 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

True that. And one of those doesnt damage itself.

What is Saws purpose then. For Target Locking U-Wings?

Saw crew on Hera Ghost. It was hilarious to use

21 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

I just really want Generic Strikers to be good.

38 gets you either a Black Squadron Scout... Or Lulo.

The Striker is in an odd position. I'm finding for the points I'd rather take any of the LN's that gives me conditional 3 dice attacks and higher PS/survivability.

Gideon Hask — TIE/ln Fighter	30
Ship Total: 30
Half Points: 15 Threshold: 2
 	
“Wampa” — TIE/ln Fighter	30
Ship Total: 30
Half Points: 15 Threshold: 2
 	
“Mauler” Mithel — TIE/ln Fighter	32
Ship Total: 32
Half Points: 16 Threshold: 2
 	
“Scourge” Skutu — TIE/ln Fighter	32
Ship Total: 32
Half Points: 16 Threshold: 2

Even with Swarm on Scourge and Mauler to get the most mileage out of them they're still under the generic ace and only 1 more than the base Striker.

1 hour ago, Ablazoned said:

I'd say put Phoenices at 28...maybe 27...but then also drop the cost of proton rockets to 4-5.

Of course, when the RZ-1 is rereleased in wave IV, they'll be able to add whatever cool config they want to retool it's role.

My dream: two configs. One that lets you roll an extra attack die if the defender has 3 or more agility, and one that lets you link any action into a red reload. YOU MUST CHOOSE.

Prockets seem like a disaster waiting to happen. They're so much better when moving last - in a procket carrier mirror, do you think the player moving first ever has a chance?

1 hour ago, RStan said:

Detroit sends their regards

rekt

1 hour ago, drjkel said:

In the "Defenders are still good" files, my middle son trashed me yesterday with 2 Deltas and Sai. Sure, we're playing 150pt to 200pt still, but he planned his moves really well and could almost always abuse Sai's talent to annoying effect.

"Yeah, I 3 banked on that rock, but I rolled like a boss, lost no shields, and Sai will make me boost off of it to block Koshka (and Sai got a lock that he'll never need, see rolling like a boss). Did you see that coming?"

It's a very simple list to fly because it has almost no upgrades. You only need to think about how Sai will best multiply actions when his turn comes. I got half point on the shuttle and a few shields off of each Delta, so I wasn't tabled!

I think defenders without upgrades are scary to people for whatever reason. Really, you can just bring nothing or juke and be fine. Also, your sons templates are still in production but should be on the way soon™!

1 hour ago, viedit said:

I'm just saying I don't know what the fix is.

For 40 points you get a crack, heroic, i5 L'ulo with a rear arc and a swanky dial.

Or you get a naked i4 Jake with no butt arc, not even a single talent let alone 2, and a worse dial.

I don't think points is *really* the answer there. Some chassis just got buffed too much. The RZ-2's are incredibly aggressively priced for what you get. And the rear arc arguably makes that a vastly different chassis. There's only so much downward points adjustments you can do before you oppress another chassis in that price range and make it pointless to use.

So, I think that's interesting. If the current resistance A-Wing is a dominant meta force, points can clearly fix it pretty easily. As for downard points adjustments on A-Wings, let's even assume that some faction had both generic TIE Fighters and A-Wings to make life easier.

I'm not sure I'd pay 28 points for a generic A-Wing in Empire over a TIE Fighter. That's a strict upgrade over the TIE/fo at 28 even, but obviously we aren't really seeing generic FOs either (at the moment). But, let's say a 28 point A-Wing still isn't good enough - let's be real, you bring an academy pilot to absolutely maximize firepower with howlrunner and all you care about is having the cheapest body there. There's a chance you'd suddenly see A-Wing/Howlrunner swarms at something like 26 points for an A, but I really doubt it.

tl;dr I don't believe you that this isn't all solvable with points. If there's no price where A-Wings are good without making TIE Fighters look stupid, TIE Fighters are too expensive too.

2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

If the current resistance A-Wing is a dominant meta force,

Truly the dankest timeline that this is even a possibility

To follow up on @Brunas‘s statement without quoting his wall of text: different factions are different.

While it is useful to compare an a-wing and TIE/ln, even if a-wings got cheaper, it wouldn’t mean ties are bad - they have way more pilots and tools for a reason, while a-wings don’t (different factions).

And I Agree(tm) - I wouldn’t pay 28 for a generic a-wing.

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Truly the dankest timeline that this is even a possibility

I will accept our RZ2 overlords.

17 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Prockets seem like a disaster waiting to happen. They're so much better when moving last - in a procket carrier mirror, do you think the player moving first ever has a chance?

rekt

I think defenders without upgrades are scary to people for whatever reason. Really, you can just bring nothing or juke and be fine. Also, your sons templates are still in production but should be on the way soon™!

So, I think that's interesting. If the current resistance A-Wing is a dominant meta force, points can clearly fix it pretty easily. As for downard points adjustments on A-Wings, let's even assume that some faction had both generic TIE Fighters and A-Wings to make life easier.

I'm not sure I'd pay 28 points for a generic A-Wing in Empire over a TIE Fighter. That's a strict upgrade over the TIE/fo at 28 even, but obviously we aren't really seeing generic FOs either (at the moment). But, let's say a 28 point A-Wing still isn't good enough - let's be real, you bring an academy pilot to absolutely maximize firepower with howlrunner and all you care about is having the cheapest body there. There's a chance you'd suddenly see A-Wing/Howlrunner swarms at something like 26 points for an A, but I really doubt it.

tl;dr I don't believe you that this isn't all solvable with points. If there's no price where A-Wings are good without making TIE Fighters look stupid, TIE Fighters are too expensive too.

26-27 A-wings

29 strikers

20 point TIE.

Just now, Kaptin Krunch said:

26-27 A-wings

29 strikers

20 point TIE.

Wait, why do tie fighters need help?

16 minutes ago, RStan said:

I will accept our RZ2 overlords.

3 Bank to Victory

11 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

While it is useful to compare an a-wing and TIE/ln, even if a-wings got cheaper, it wouldn’t mean ties are bad - they have way more pilots and tools for a reason, while a-wings don’t (different factions).

True this. A-wings, for example, have no access to howl or iden, or even stuff like drea for group economy. They have to be much better individually for the points than mining ties or tie/lns.

10 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

True this. A-wings, for example, have no access to howl or iden, or even stuff like drea for group economy. They have to be much better individually for the points than mining ties or tie/lns.

Someone said something about how the TIE/LN has to be balanced around the existence of Howlrunner (Iden probably wouldn't be worth 40 points if Howlrunner wasn't a pilot) and I concur. I'm fine with a 23 point filler that usually has offensive re-rolls staying the same in price.

FFG got the LN balanced to Howlrunnner pretty well, contrasted to the x1 (balanced around Vader) which is terrible.

12 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Wait, why do tie fighters need help?

To allow the A-wing to get cheaper I guess?

But on pricing, i still think the main issue is the difference between the generic pilots and the named pilots with words.

19 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

26-27 A-wings

29 strikers

20 point TIE.

15 point Vulture

8 minutes ago, svelok said:

15 point Vulture

Are they that much worse than tie fighters? The calculate sharing and the barrel roll to calculate pretty well make up for the one fewer agility? If the struts are free or cheap I really think they will be close to /ln pricing.

49 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I think defenders without upgrades are scary to people for whatever reason. Really, you can just bring nothing or juke and be fine. Also, your sons templates are still in production but should be on the way soon™!

It's not that they're bad, it's that they're a lot of points, and when you have that many points you want to be able to do a variety of things.

For me, at least, low initiative is good at putting out dangerous arcs at a budget price. I'd rather have two alpha Interceptors than a delta 4 times out of 5. Defensive ships are suboptimal at low I because they're extremely ignorable, but also have some trouble closing out a game because they're not great at chasing.

I think the double delta/lambda squad can work because the whole squad is pretty defensive so you have to put in a lot of work chipping everything down. Other squads like that are probably where generic, stripped down Defenders are good. Where there are no soft targets you can kill to get up on points while ignoring the Defenders.

33 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

3 Bank to Victory

Seriously though!

90% of my maneuvers are 2hard, 3 bank or 5 straight

19 minutes ago, AEIllingworth said:

Are they that much worse than tie fighters?

nah not particularly

CIS seems to have fragile ships across the board (the infiltrator wishes it had anywhere near the durability of a generic firespray) and with the 8-ship limit anyways I'm vaguely guessing everything will be super cheap so that CIS listbuilding is basically "build the list you want and then season with vultures"

more importantly I saw an opportunity for the meme and I went for it

2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Also this happens every time there is a break in legitimate competitive X-Wing but I am going through all the stuff I don't normally use to see if any of its fun ( Rebels/Resistance ).

Is it just optimism or does Luke + U-Wing + Thing seem legitimately good in Hyperspace?

I almost got wrecked by a guy in his first event running a Hyperspace-compliant Luke Wedge U-Tubes.

My last sigma escaped with 1 hull and I considered myself lucky.

Just now, skotothalamos said:

I almost got wrecked by a guy in his first event running a Hyperspace-compliant Luke Wedge U-Tubes.

Quoting myself cuz I’m cool.

I just realized the Tubes brothers are U-tube and X-tube. Don’t click that link, kids!

4 hours ago, Brunas said:

I think defenders without upgrades are scary to people for whatever reason. Really, you can just bring nothing or juke and be fine. Also, your sons templates are still in production but should be on the way soon™!

That's the other son, who says thanks This was the one who is not yet 7 and nearly tabled his big brother at a quick build tournament. He enjoys occasional x-wing but is really good at it.

Banking onto a rock to coordinate a boost off of it is not something I saw coming from someone who learned what coordinate was for that game.

I need to go higher than 150pts, or make actually good 150pts squads now. Maybe Whisper Redline...