7 minutes ago, Biophysical said:This is a minor terminology thing, but what you're describing as "partial joust", I refer to as "offset joust". It's a little thing, but "partial joust" makes it seem a little more like some of the list is not jousting, which isn't really the case if I'm understanding your description correctly.
Makes sense. Thats the situation its intended to represent. Cases where the player was jousting with style.
On the the topic of probability and ****
What % of the time will you need to be favored to win a straight joust before you are willing to try a straight joust?
47 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:On the the topic of probability and ****
What % of the time will you need to be favored to win a straight joust before you are willing to try a straight joust?
That's pretty dependent on where other advantages are. If jousting is 50%, but everything else is worse, I joust. If jousting is 50%, but I can easily outmaneuver them, I pick something else.
1 hour ago, Kaptin Krunch said:On the the topic of probability and ****
What % of the time will you need to be favored to win a straight joust before you are willing to try a straight joust?
That's a hard question to answer, because people who play jousting lists are more likely to be willing to joust, and those of us who don't play jousty lists aren't willing to joust. I rarely have the better jousting list, so even if I have the advantage it's probably something like 60/40, which isn't enough.
Except for formats where MoV doesn't matter and my endgame ace can obviously clean up (thanks whisper/redline/boba/supernatural), then I'm happy to point everything at each other and let the board state be reduced to the point where the ace wins by default.
1 minute ago, Brunas said:Except for formats where MoV doesn't matter and my endgame ace can obviously clean up (thanks whisper/redline/boba/supernatural), then I'm happy to point everything at each other and let the board state be reduced to the point where the ace wins by default.
But what if I try really REALLY hard?
8 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:But what if I try really REALLY hard?
@Brunas is again underestimating The Will To Win(TM)
24 minutes ago, Brunas said:That's a hard question to answer, because people who play jousting lists are more likely to be willing to joust, and those of us who don't play jousty lists aren't willing to joust. I rarely have the better jousting list, so even if I have the advantage it's probably something like 60/40, which isn't enough.
Except for formats where MoV doesn't matter and my endgame ace can obviously clean up (thanks whisper/redline/boba/supernatural), then I'm happy to point everything at each other and let the board state be reduced to the point where the ace wins by default.
Let's follow that up then.
What is the Joust probability that you think Luke Thane Wedge will have vs 4 Optics Gunner SF(one is Backdraft)?
16 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:Let's follow that up then.
What is the Joust probability that you think Luke Thane Wedge will have vs 4 Optics Gunner SF(one is Backdraft)?
I'm out - http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi_preset/?d=ggAAAAAAAAAA&a1=BgU&a2=BQc&a3=AgM 70% to lose an SF in the opening exchange, so now best case is you kill Wedge or Thane - but only 50% of the time (http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi/?d=AgAAAAAAAAAA&a1=MQgAAAAAAEA&a2=MQgAAAAAAEA&a3=MQgAAAAAAEA). Given that I'd put good money on Luke cleaning up two SFs by himself, I'm out entirely.
The aces probably outjoust the generics here, and I'm still out on the joust (with Luke). Thankfully, Supernatural says you can't ever joust him, so it works out.
On 12/25/2018 at 6:17 AM, Tlfj200 said:Not using bombs is wrong.
Also, VTG is expensive for a maybe shot that is very likely unmodified on an already expensive carrier with 1 agility, but that’s on the strategy and player.
But no bombs seems massively wrong at the moment, since they’re the only hyperspace ship of carrying trajectory simulator (and neat shields at 1 agility means they die if looked at, and you could find a cheaper 3 die primary if that’s why you’re bringing them).
I'm way out on this conversation cus Christmas... but yes. VTG is terrible on the bomber. I flew Rey/Poe against this:
L'ulo L'ampar (38)
Trick Shot (1)
Crack Shot (1)
Proton Rockets (7)
Ferrosphere Paint (6)
Tallissan Lintra (35)
Trick Shot (1)
Crack Shot (1)
Proton Rockets (7)
Ferrosphere Paint (6)
Ben Teene (68)
Fire-Control System (3)
Rose Tico (9)
Veteran Turret Gunner (8)
Proton Bombs (5)
Seismic Charges (3)
Total: 199
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0
And I honestly was more scared of the A-wings than the Bomber. I melted the bomber in 2 turns and stayed out of the primary arc. Horrendously bad build in my opinion.
1 hour ago, Brunas said:I'm out - http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi_preset/?d=ggAAAAAAAAAA&a1=BgU&a2=BQc&a3=AgM 70% to lose an SF in the opening exchange, so now best case is you kill Wedge or Thane - but only 50% of the time (http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi/?d=AgAAAAAAAAAA&a1=MQgAAAAAAEA&a2=MQgAAAAAAEA&a3=MQgAAAAAAEA). Given that I'd put good money on Luke cleaning up two SFs by himself, I'm out entirely.
The aces probably outjoust the generics here, and I'm still out on the joust (with Luke). Thankfully, Supernatural says you can't ever joust him, so it works out.
Jesus, i had no idea that aces were exactly that efficient at killing: i've been able to get R1 engages vs them when I last tried, and resulted in an exchange of SF for Luke.
So besides Proton torps, how much would generics need to go down to make All Generic lists viable? Does 5X or 5SF tip the scales?
24 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:So besides Proton torps, how much would generics need to go down to make All Generic lists viable? Does 5X or 5SF tip the scales?
FYI there were something like 2% of all the lists I looked at with all generics, just throwing that in here
43 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:Jesus, i had no idea that aces were exactly that efficient at killing: i've been able to get R1 engages vs them when I last tried, and resulted in an exchange of SF for Luke.
So besides Proton torps, how much would generics need to go down to make All Generic lists viable? Does 5X or 5SF tip the scales?
My extremely not analytical perspective on this question is that 5 ships makes a big difference over 4 when they're all real combat ships (3 attack dice). 5 means that you lose one and can still still bully 3 ship stuff, and can close off a lot of attack lanes against high maneuver stuff. Frequently two ships are blocking/pointed the wrong way, so it gives you a 3rd ship firing, which is huge when one ship might be initiative killed or they've got enough tokens to shrug off one attack.
5 T65s might be a real list, even though they're a little slow. 5 Khiraxz might be already, but not that many people have 5 of those and they're probably not reaching Hyperspace any time soon.
To build on that, Thane Luke Wedge is a list I threw ot as an example because it's known to be kinda ****(thane) and it's something one might expect a bad player to fly.
Make Thane into Biggs and it's significantly more real.
But these lists outjoust stuff like 4 SF, 5 Striker, etc: stuff you would expect to be good at jousting.
Generics either need a massive point drop, or named pilots need a massive point increase.
Generic strikers have a 0% conversion rate.
12 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:To build on that, Thane Luke Wedge is a list I threw ot as an example because it's known to be kinda ****(thane) and it's something one might expect a bad player to fly.
Make Thane into Biggs and it's significantly more real.
But these lists outjoust stuff like 4 SF, 5 Striker, etc: stuff you would expect to be good at jousting.
Generics either need a massive point drop, or named pilots need a massive point increase.
Generic strikers have a 0% conversion rate.
Yeah, if it's Squad of Legend, it gets more one sided. Kinda makes you wonder if initial points game from 3 games of stuff jousting each other. This isn't even wrong, as there's no way they have the resources to do detailed playtesting for points values. As we're still in open beta, I'm not too beat up about bad generics, but it will be annoying if it keeps up.
6 minutes ago, Biophysical said:Yeah, if it's Squad of Legend, it gets more one sided. Kinda makes you wonder if initial points game from 3 games of stuff jousting each other. This isn't even wrong, as there's no way they have the resources to do detailed playtesting for points values. As we're still in open beta, I'm not too beat up about bad generics, but it will be annoying if it keeps up.
Squad of Legend Vs, say, 5 striker or 4 SF
They can, if soontir gets range 1, kill 2 Strikers the first turn on average, or vs the SF, kill one before it shoots and take the tokens off of another/do some chip damage.
This is assuming the vastly more maneuverable squad that activates with perfect information and has access to both token stacking, post-move repositioning, and pre-move repositioning just flies head-on. If you fail to kill one, they can take another 2 strikers off the board before they shoot
If high init pilots/pilots with abilities don't skyrocket in price in the next update, generics will need to see large, sweeping point reductions.
The best example of named pilots being better is the Black Squadron Scout and Sabine (Shuttle)
Both cost 38 and are i3. Sabine has more of her health in shields, can choose if she wants to reposition before she moves or not, has barrel roll before she moves as an option, has linked actions, can generate tokens before she moves, and can token stack.
Why would you ever take the Scout, if you want the better ship?
4 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:What is the Joust probability that you think Luke Thane Wedge will have vs 4 Optics Gunner SF(one is Backdraft)?
I also didn’t realize how bad that joust is for the SFs, but I question whether they even want optics. It’s a marginal improvement for a 3 die attack, and it adds up fast in FO. I think I’d rather have Midnight, QuickDraw, and two fanatical SFs.
41 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:
Why would you ever take the Scout, if you want the better ship?
I think it's okay to charge a premium to be able to take a bunch of something, but Sabine is way cheaper than she ought to be.
1 hour ago, Kaptin Krunch said:Generics either need a massive point drop, or named pilots need a massive point increase.
This and ban supernatural please ffg.
Speaking of generics
Did anyone try a missile swarm with targeting synchronizer?
Not necessarily this, but I'm looking at 5 Awings. Tallie +TS, and 4x Blue+Optics+Homing. The difference of blue to green+heroic is exactly the 3pt needed, so it all fits quite nicely.
I will give it a try. The relevant question is whether 4homings and Tallies ability make up or surpass the 4 heroics and lulo's ability. I'm sleep deprived but it might be similar enough.
WTF? Is this topic still alive?
I thought it lost it's raison d'etre when it passed the holy GUNBOAT thread.
Merry Christmas y'all. And a Happy PewPew Year.
7 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:Speaking of generics
Did anyone try a missile swarm with targeting synchronizer?
Not necessarily this, but I'm looking at 5 Awings. Tallie +TS, and 4x Blue+Optics+Homing. The difference of blue to green+heroic is exactly the 3pt needed, so it all fits quite nicely.
I will give it a try. The relevant question is whether 4homings and Tallies ability make up or surpass the 4 heroics and lulo's ability. I'm sleep deprived but it might be similar enough.
Poe and three Homing As I've tried. Having three As helps him take R4 astro because you can create space for Poe to land his moves without needing a BB panic button as much. That, in turn, saves Poe a bunch of points and makes him scarier 1v1, as in my experience Poe prefers R4 in a 1v1 or 1v2 endgame over a BB droid that may or may not have charges left.
1 minute ago, Ablazoned said:Poe and three Homing As I've tried.
With the synchronizer? How was it?
And how did you play it? Straight joust and then split them?
Just now, GreenDragoon said:With the synchronizer? How was it?
And how did you play it? Straight joust and then split them?
I've got two games in with three greens, and two games in with three blues. 3/4 times I jousted (not because I calculated it as best odds, but because I wanted to get a feel for what would happen). After the first round, I tend to hard turn and try to line up a spread of positions for the A-wings, and slow roll with Poe. Chaos tends to ensue. If I'm flying L'ulo or Talli I don't mind flying by but the lower init A-wings are great blockers, especially with the rear gun. OMG the rear gun is SO GOOD. It's cool to have near 180-degree coverage bc Poe is usually moving last, so with the A-wing's primary to the back Poe can just pick whomever's in the most A-wings front arcs and BOOM! That front arc is active again.
One match QD took no damage from an HLC shot (with predator) and two homing missiles. The first three shots straight missed, so the third A just shot someone else. Single-modded homing missiles have just felt bad to me ever since.
2 hours ago, jagsba said:This and ban supernatural please ffg.
Supernatural banned? Probably not.
Supernatural 10+ points increase on I-5s up? Likely.
1 hour ago, FlyingAnchors said:Supernatural banned? Probably not.
Supernatural 10+ points increase on I-5s up? Likely.
I keep hearing similar stuff. Did someone say something or are we all just hoping?