24 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

@Biophysical
Maybe 2x Reaper Defender. Go FASD

I've definitely run this in solitaire games a few times. It's a squad that feels like it has a huge amount of upside because you can do these crazy combinations of coordinating, jamming, aileroning, advanced sensoring shenanigans. You can do fat Rex, skinny Vermeil, and Vizier in a list.

Aside: alt art Advanced Censor?

11 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

I understand 2.0 format is good for new players. But the issue of the haves and (new player) have-nots was going to happen no matter what. If not now, then a year or two from now when we have all the 2.0 expansions caught up and we are back where we were in 1.0 for new players. While it did stumble a little down the line, new players did join 1.0 without much issue even 7-9 waves in.

something else I care about is that if 1.0 goes out of print (as it probably will), finding the expansions to convert may be near impossible for the new player. If this were not the case, I could be persuaded to run extended more.

As-is, I mostly agree that low-level should be 2.0 only and high level can/should be extended. The problem I foresee is bridging that gap, as most communities are going to follow high-level tournament regs by default. Perhaps the wave kits are how they foresee fixing this?

1 minute ago, Do I need a Username said:

something else I care about is that if 1.0 goes out of print (as it probably will), finding the expansions to convert may be near impossible for the new player. If this were not the case, I could be persuaded to run extended more.

As-is, I mostly agree that low-level should be 2.0 only and high level can/should be extended. The problem I foresee is bridging that gap, as most communities are going to follow high-level tournament regs by default. Perhaps the wave kits are how they foresee fixing this?

I guess I just disagree that "high level" needs to be extended.

Like I said, by the time premier events even occur, we'll have 7 factions and 3+ waves. I just dont see a problem.

1 minute ago, Do I need a Username said:

something else I care about is that if 1.0 goes out of print (as it probably will), finding the expansions to convert may be near impossible for the new player. If this were not the case, I could be persuaded to run extended more.

As-is, I mostly agree that low-level should be 2.0 only and high level can/should be extended. The problem I foresee is bridging that gap, as most communities are going to follow high-level tournament regs by default. Perhaps the wave kits are how they foresee fixing this?

I fully expect the business plan is for FFG to have the 2.0 expansions for the conversion kit ships on shelves well before the 1.0 stock becomes entirely unavailable. Whether that actually happens though is a better question.

3 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I guess I just disagree that "high level" needs to be extended.

Like I said, by the time premier events even occur, we'll have 7 factions and 3+ waves. I just dont see a problem.

oh wait, u right I forgot about the schedule. 2.0 only all the way.

It's worth noting/stressing stores can do whatever they want.

5 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

It's worth noting/stressing stores can do whatever they want.

NO! Don't Tell them! Leave the masses believing in the secret X-wing TOs club! Stores don't have agency! WE CONTROL THE TOURNAMENTS!

Yeah, locally we are doing mostly 2.0 only (or at least I am). Partially because I like all the ships, and partly because I am too lazy to open my conversions.

32 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

But that’s because the way 1.0 worked, the newest waves were the best waves.

thats actually the ONLY reason it worked like that.

The new waves will always be designed to be the best way. FFG needs to sell after all.

Power creep is needed in this game, both by producers to make profit and by players to keep the game fresh.

Just now, Sunitsa said:

The new waves will always be designed to be the best way. FFG needs to sell after all.

Power creep is needed in this game, both by producers to make profit and by players to keep the game fresh.

See, but now they can dynamically balance to keep older ships relevant.

When there are a LOT of ships per faction, some will inherently fall away; when there are 5-7? most should be relevent.

1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

Power creep is needed in this game, both by producers to make profit and by players to keep the game fresh.

1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:

See, but now they can dynamically balance to keep older ships relevant.

I get the feeling both will be true. On release half the ships will be OP and half UP compared to the current game state just like in the past. Only hopefully now they'll stay that way for a couple months, long enough to sell some ships, until points change instead of requiring endless power creep

2 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

The new waves will always be designed to be the best way. FFG needs to sell after all.

Power creep is needed in this game, both by producers to make profit and by players to keep the game fresh.

I don't think this is actually true. There have been a lot of (obviously) DOA releases, here they are starting with wave 6:

Most Wanted

M3A

Kihraxz

Punisher

Mist Hunter (should have been, at least :p)

SF Tie (before LWF)

MINDLINK DISCOVERED HERE, "DOA" radically changes

Quadjumper

Upsilon (kind of)

UWing

Striker

Aggressor

Kimogila

That's... a lot of really bad stuff to have released if they're trying to make overpowered stuff to sell. I think it's more likely the point costs aren't very accurate for how good things are, so every time they miss the mark we were stuck with it forever.

I refuse to accept the notion that things need to be power creeped to sell. Balanced new things should sell perfectly well as long as they have interesting and compelling mechanics. It’s a very Spike oriented mentality to believe things need to continue to be better and better to continue to sell. There are tons of Johnnys and Tims who like new things because they’re new and bring new ways to play the game, not because they need to buy things just to keep up at the monthly tournament.

2 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

The new waves will always be designed to be the best way. FFG needs to sell after all.

Power creep is needed in this game, both by producers to make profit and by players to keep the game fresh.

Well they can also sell new stuff to old players pretty well by making better models. I already own 2 new Fangs, 3 new Y-Wings, a new Firespray, 6 new TIE Fighters, and 4 new X-Wings, none of which I needed...

and new players will be more likely to buy into a game if it's balanced and they can play the ships they like vs "the meta"

2 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Well they can also sell new stuff to old players pretty well by making better models. I already own 2 new Fangs, 3 new Y-Wings, a new Firespray, 6 new TIE Fighters, and 4 new X-Wings, none of which I needed...

and new players will be more likely to buy into a game if it's balanced and they can play the ships they like vs "the meta"

oh god, those new fangs are gorgeous. I really don't need another. I really really want like 3.

1 minute ago, jagsba said:

oh god, those new fangs are gorgeous. I really don't need another. I really really want like 3.

Yeah. Need two more. I want to fly four Skulls as my 2.0-only list and they need to all spin to make me happy

34 minutes ago, jagsba said:

oh god, those new fangs are gorgeous. I really don't need another. I really really want like 3

I was trying to sell out on Scum... then I saw the new protectorate on the shelf. Really, the only thing that stopped me from buying it was two other people got to the stock first while I was trying to talk myself out of it.

1 hour ago, Brunas said:

I don't think this is actually true. There have been a lot of (obviously) DOA releases, here they are starting with wave 6:

Most Wanted

M3A

Kihraxz

Punisher

Mist Hunter (should have been, at least :p)

SF Tie (before LWF)

MINDLINK DISCOVERED HERE, "DOA" radically changes

Quadjumper

Upsilon (kind of)

UWing

Striker

Aggressor

Kimogila

That's... a lot of really bad stuff to have released if they're trying to make overpowered stuff to sell. I think it's more likely the point costs aren't very accurate for how good things are, so every time they miss the mark we were stuck with it forever.

Many of these ships were released with some very strong cards thought.

Uwing had expertise, striker lwf and mist hunter zuckus and 4lom.

Ships were bought for cards too, I was also referring to them

1 hour ago, Brunas said:

I don't think this is actually true. There have been a lot of (obviously) DOA releases, here they are starting with wave 6:

Most Wanted

M3A

Kihraxz

Punisher

Mist Hunter (should have been, at least :p)

SF Tie (before LWF)

MINDLINK DISCOVERED HERE, "DOA" radically changes

Quadjumper

Upsilon (kind of)

UWing

Striker

Aggressor

Kimogila

That's... a lot of really bad stuff to have released if they're trying to make overpowered stuff to sell. I think it's more likely the point costs aren't very accurate for how good things are, so every time they miss the mark we were stuck with it forever.

Did your spellchecker replace "arViper" with "riker"?

15 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Many of these ships were released with some very strong cards thought.

Uwing had expertise, striker lwf and mist hunter zuckus and 4lom.

Ships were bought for cards too, I was also referring to them

Cards aren't ships.

That's diminishing your statement already.


Regardless, there's not really a need for 2.0 to have continuous powercreep via releases; they can tweak points specifically to "shake thing up", which sounds great.

22 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Cards aren't ships.

That's diminishing your statement already.


Regardless, there's not really a need for 2.0 to have continuous powercreep via releases; they can tweak points specifically to "shake thing up", which sounds great.

My statement referred to 'waves' that Ffg needed to sell.

I never said ships and in a game like xwing, power creep regarded both cards AND ships to the point that some like QD were just waiting the right card to come.

2.0 will still need powercreep: without selling waves ffg makes no money. Sure they will adjust things with their app, but new toys will be specifically designed to appeal players, like they always have been.

The fact that not all succeeded says more about the way developers understand the games than anything else

14 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

My statement referred to 'waves' that Ffg needed to sell.

I never said ships and in a game like xwing, power creep regarded both cards AND ships to the point that some like QD were just waiting the right card to come.

2.0 will still need powercreep: without selling waves ffg makes no money. Sure they will adjust things with their app, but new toys will be specifically designed to appeal players, like they always have been.

The fact that not all succeeded says more about the way developers understand the games than anything else

Is the assumption that something has to be powercreep to appeal to players valid?

I'd argue that ships that are nostalgic (this is star wars after all) and mechanics that are interesting will sell ships regardless of if they're OP. They might not sell like k-wings after Aaron Bonar plays them, but they'll sell.

1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

My statement referred to 'waves' that Ffg needed to sell.

I never said ships and in a game like xwing, power creep regarded both cards AND ships to the point that some like QD were just waiting the right card to come.

2.0 will still need powercreep: without selling waves ffg makes no money. Sure they will adjust things with their app, but new toys will be specifically designed to appeal players, like they always have been.

The fact that not all succeeded says more about the way developers understand the games than anything else

Here are new wave ideas:

new ships foe the new factions which will only start with like 3-4 ships on launch.

Also, new pilots for old ships.

ez?

3 hours ago, Brunas said:

I don't think this is actually true. There have been a lot of (obviously) DOA releases, here they are starting with wave 6:

Most Wanted

M3A

Kihraxz

Punisher

Mist Hunter (should have been, at least :p)

SF Tie (before LWF)

MINDLINK DISCOVERED HERE, "DOA" radically changes

Quadjumper

Upsilon (kind of)

UWing

Striker

Aggressor

Kimogila

MUH UPSILON! Fight me!

Seriously, though, pre-LWF Quickdraw was still a grade A asskicker.

1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

The fact that not all succeeded says more about the way developers understand the games than anything else

So when the developers release something underpowered it's because they don't know what they're doing, but when it's OP it's intentional? Couldn't both just be error?

40 minutes ago, evcameron said:

So when the developers release something underpowered it's because they don't know what they're doing, but when it's OP it's intentional? Couldn't both just be error?

Absolutely. The key difference between OP and UP though is that only one actually changes the power level of the game. UP stuff doesn't get put on the table and so in terms of meta may as well not exist whereas OP stuff raises the average played power level resulting in power creep. So even aiming for and in aggregate hitting the mark results in power creep if there's any individual variance it ship balance

Having said that... just cause they're not doing it intentionally doesn't mean it doesn't move ships