3 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Yeah, I get that and I also like the variety of stuff I face. I disagree on the estimation of 4 lists across all three (current) factions for Second Edition format, though. Imperials seem pretty limited, but there’s a lot of variation and tweaking to be found in both Rebels and Scum. It all may not all be great, but it’s there.

I also have grown even more concerned about new players coming into the fold. I’ve seen a decent amount of returning players, but I’ve not seen a single new player to show up to any of our local game nights/events since release, and I’ve at least popped in for 4-5 of them. It’s very early, though.

Also remember that new product just days ago hit shelves, there's not been any time for new players to pick it up, try it at home, find out about game nights, and come out.

1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

We've had new players locally.

And as returning players come out and fill stores to play, other people will see the game and [hopefully] become interested.

That’s great to hear! I definitely don’t think my isolated experience is indicative of everywhere else. I just think it’s a great game with a fantastic community and want to see that grow. That’s where I see variety...not in ships/lists available to build, but rather in the people who play them.

Just now, gennataos said:

That’s great to hear! I definitely don’t think my isolated experience is indicative of everywhere else. I just think it’s a great game with a fantastic community and want to see that grow. That’s where I see variety...not in ships/lists available to build, but rather in the people who play them.

Wrong.

21 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

How common do you think Teroch is going to be? I don't think I've seen anyone field him yet, maybe because Boba is so solid, and Fenn is the natural counterpart there.

Teroch is the 'yall better stop flying defenders' lever. Guri and Fenn are more fun but I'll run teroch solely to punish token stacks.

4 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Yeah, I get that and I also like the variety of stuff I face. I disagree on the estimation of 4 lists across all three (current) factions for Second Edition format, though. Imperials seem pretty limited, but there’s a lot of variation and tweaking to be found in both Rebels and Scum. It all may not all be great, but it’s there.

I also have grown even more concerned about new players coming into the fold. I’ve seen a decent amount of returning players, but I’ve not seen a single new player to show up to any of our local game nights/events since release, and I’ve at least popped in for 4-5 of them. It’s very early, though.

R1 of my release tournament was a brand new player. In between rounds I met a guy who had just bought a core and Darth Vader and gave him a few ships.

12 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Wrong.

This man knows what is good in life.

11 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Teroch is the 'yall better stop flying defenders' lever. Guri and Fenn are more fun but I'll run teroch solely to punish token stacks.

How hard a counter do you think he is? If I'm running Rexler Brath, I'm not a lot more afraid of Teroch than Fenn, but Fenn is better against a wider field (and more expensive, of course).

6 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Yeah, I get that and I also like the variety of stuff I face. I disagree on the estimation of 4 lists across all three (current) factions for Second Edition format, though. Imperials seem pretty limited, but there’s a lot of variation and tweaking to be found in both Rebels and Scum. It all may not all be great, but it’s there.

I also have grown even more concerned about new players coming into the fold. I’ve seen a decent amount of returning players, but I’ve not seen a single new player to show up to any of our local game nights/events since release, and I’ve at least popped in for 4-5 of them. It’s very early, though.

• TIE swarm
• SuperVader + friends
• Boba + Fang friends
• Luke + Norra + friend

At least in my personal experience anything else put on the table in 2nd has seemed like a bad version of one of those. Sure you can vary the upgrade and who the friends are but the core feel of the list is the same and it's only a matter of time before we collectively solve for the value of friend. It's not a large problem space. At least that's been my experience.

Been traveling so haven't actually gotten a chance to go to our local store since real release to get a read of the scene in general. But since Gencon I've pulled in 2 new players with my 2.0 hype who have core sets and are borrowing my stuff for everything else

7 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

How hard a counter do you think he is? If I'm running Rexler Brath, I'm not a lot more afraid of Teroch than Fenn, but Fenn is better against a wider field (and more expensive, of course).

porque no los dos?

All I want is for you to stare at teroch and drop tokens. his shooting is a bonus.

I don't pretend to "catch" advanced sensors defenders.

4 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

porque no los dos?

All I want is for you to start at teroch, and drop tokens. his shooting is a bonus.

I don't pretend to "catch" advanced sensors defenders.

^ this

Just now, Tlfj200 said:

porque no los dos?

All I want is for you to start at teroch, and drop tokens. his shooting is a bonus.

I don't pretend to "catch" advanced sensors defenders.

Right, his ability is basically a good attack. It's a great ability, and definitely has a lot of utility vs Defenders. He and Fenn are absolutely good together. I'm just trying to get a sense of what people think on a scale of:

1.) Hard counter, I'll have to screw up to lose vs Defender.

2.) Big advantage, I should beat an equally skilled player most of the time.

3.) A nice edge, I'll keep Defenders on their toes, and can exploit their mistakes more easily.

4.) Better than the generic.

So I think he's a 3. I might be totally wrong, but I see a lot of counterplay with the lists I'm interested in. He'll certainly close off certain moves, and that has a lot of utility. I just don't think it will be as big as I think others think.

2 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Right, his ability is basically a good attack. It's a great ability, and definitely has a lot of utility vs Defenders. He and Fenn are absolutely good together. I'm just trying to get a sense of what people think on a scale of:

1.) Hard counter, I'll have to screw up to lose vs Defender.

2.) Big advantage, I should beat an equally skilled player most of the time.

3.) A nice edge, I'll keep Defenders on their toes, and can exploit their mistakes more easily.

4.) Better than the generic.

So I think he's a 3. I might be totally wrong, but I see a lot of counterplay with the lists I'm interested in. He'll certainly close off certain moves, and that has a lot of utility. I just don't think it will be as big as I think others think.

3

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

2.) Big advantage, I should beat an equally skilled player most of the time.

1

Someone of MY skill is not going to know how to avoid losing tokens and still get shots off on a Teroch. How will most players react when they lose their security blanket and get punched in the nose the first time?

Just now, Biophysical said:

Right, his ability is basically a good attack. It's a great ability, and definitely has a lot of utility vs Defenders. He and Fenn are absolutely good together. I'm just trying to get a sense of what people think on a scale of:

1.) Hard counter, I'll have to screw up to lose vs Defender.

2.) Big advantage, I should beat an equally skilled player most of the time.

3.) A nice edge, I'll keep Defenders on their toes, and can exploit their mistakes more easily.

4.) Better than the generic.

So I think he's a 3. I might be totally wrong, but I see a lot of counterplay with the lists I'm interested in. He'll certainly close off certain moves, and that has a lot of utility. I just don't think it will be as big as I think others think.

I think that he can be used to either create no go zones for ships that move after or really frustrate token stackers that move first. If Kyle becomes a thing (or anything with Moldy Crow), Teroch makes them sad. He makes token stacking Brobots sad too. He pretty much acts as a pseudo Biggs because he will be target #1 for many lists.

3) for sure, but he's still an i5 fang fighter. That's a solid ship against the field (-vader). I'm not going to regret having that ship in my list, even if his ability was (test pilot) blacked out.

Has anyone yet spoken to you of our rebel lord and saviour, the quad warden squadron K-Wing?

"Bombs + Traj Sim The Miniatures Game"

lmao Traj Sim triggers me so much, how did it survive the purge into 2.0.

49 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Right, his ability is basically a good attack. It's a great ability, and definitely has a lot of utility vs Defenders. He and Fenn are absolutely good together. I'm just trying to get a sense of what people think on a scale of:

1.) Hard counter, I'll have to screw up to lose vs Defender.

2.) Big advantage, I should beat an equally skilled player most of the time.

3.) A nice edge, I'll keep Defenders on their toes, and can exploit their mistakes more easily.

4.) Better than the generic.

So I think he's a 3. I might be totally wrong, but I see a lot of counterplay with the lists I'm interested in. He'll certainly close off certain moves, and that has a lot of utility. I just don't think it will be as big as I think others think.

2.5? I will blow out a less skilled player, I feel like defenders are a powelrful enough ship that packing something relevant to that matchup is important

What's the thought between Palob vs Teroch for list building if you can only have one? It seems to be a consistent effect (Palob) vs high risk high reward (Teroch) type of argument, unless I'm missing something else. What are reasons to go one way or another?

33 minutes ago, RStan said:

What's the thought between Palob vs Teroch for list building if you can only have one? It seems to be a consistent effect (Palob) vs high risk high reward (Teroch) type of argument, unless I'm missing something else. What are reasons to go one way or another?

My initial impression is that Palob will get wrecked a lot faster than Teroch. He's not as tough and moves much more predictably.

Edit: although Fenn + Teroch + Palob + Z95 seems good.

11 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

My initial impression is that Palob will get wrecked a lot faster than Teroch. He's not as tough and moves much more predictably.

Edit: although Fenn + Teroch + Palob + Z95 seems good.

The list I want to play is Nym + Teroch + Palob + L3-37. IDK how well it will work, but it seems to have lots of possibilities.

2 hours ago, Makaze said:

• TIE swarm
• SuperVader + friends
• Boba + Fang friends
• Luke + Norra + friend

At least in my personal experience anything else put on the table in 2nd has seemed like a bad version of one of those. Sure you can vary the upgrade and who the friends are but the core feel of the list is the same and it's only a matter of time before we collectively solve for the value of friend. It's not a large problem space. At least that's been my experience.

I'm not surprised by that list and I think it's the default list at which most people would arrive. I also don't disagree with it. That's why I'm a proponent of, and hoping for, Second Edition as the driving OP format, because then people would actually explore the nooks and crannies of what's available. If Extended is the primary format, then I would assume most people would build toward Extended and "just take one of the 4 lists" for a Second Edition event.

As an aside, people should 100% be looking at the Scum Falcon for Second Edition format. It's #notmyfalcon, but it's undeniably good.

3 hours ago, Makaze said:

• TIE swarm
• SuperVader + friends
• Boba + Fang friends
• Luke + Norra + friend

At least in my personal experience anything else put on the table in 2nd has seemed like a bad version of one of those. Sure you can vary the upgrade and who the friends are but the core feel of the list is the same and it's only a matter of time before we collectively solve for the value of friend. It's not a large problem space. At least that's been my experience.

Been traveling so haven't actually gotten a chance to go to our local store since real release to get a read of the scene in general. But since Gencon I've pulled in 2 new players with my 2.0 hype who have core sets and are borrowing my stuff for everything else

What's funny is that if I had a second ed tourney tomorrow that I cared about, the two lists I'm between are not on that list. Also "Vader + friends" is incredibly vauge, so you're kind of discounting quite a bit.

A few months ago people were trying to convince us selflessness and draw thier fire made for totally unique and diverse 100 point Miranda lists, now having half the list be different is "basically the same?"

When I studied poetry we used to say that creativity shines the most when overcoming limitations, I suspect that the people dismissing the format haven't given it much look or don't want to try that hard lol

3 hours ago, Makaze said:

• TIE swarm
• SuperVader + friends
• Boba + Fang friends
• Luke + Norra + friend

At least in my personal experience anything else put on the table in 2nd has seemed like a bad version of one of those. Sure you can vary the upgrade and who the friends are but the core feel of the list is the same and it's only a matter of time before we collectively solve for the value of friend. It's not a large problem space. At least that's been my experience.

Been traveling so haven't actually gotten a chance to go to our local store since real release to get a read of the scene in general. But since Gencon I've pulled in 2 new players with my 2.0 hype who have core sets and are borrowing my stuff for everything else

Isn't this how expanded works as well? There's always going to be a few meta things that 50% of the pool plays.

Frankly, I think the limited pool of ships is more interesting, because even the bad stuff is less bad, relatively speaking. There's actual decisions to make in list building, instead of "this stuff is all good and I can count to 200"

2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

There's actual decisions to make in list building, instead of "this stuff is all good and I can count to 200"

If anyone was actually really good at this game, we would have list building theories centered around complementary movement patterns on top of complementary card interactions as a way of assessing which "good stuff that fits in 200 points" was the right "good stuff that fits in 200 points".

I tried Fenn and Teroch (with predator) and Palob (with the title, 0-0-0, and seismic, because points) in my first 2.0 game against my son. His Boba nearly wrecked me since Concordia does not trigger in the back arc and I forgot...

It's not an optimal list at all, but I loved having 2 useful HWKs on the table (my son also had Torkil and Talonbane, because we don't have enough Fangs).

I would play it again, tweaking some and sticking to the front arc of ships...