2 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Yeah, I've seen the same thing. I won a triple ace list, none of which died, while having lost a ship and half points on all but one of mine. I thought I was losing the whole time. I've also seen Guri dance around the remainder of a TIE swarm and plink in just enough damage to get her the win after Boba died early.

 Sure, running will still happen, but I don't think to the extent we've seen in the past.

That was the exact scenario. Guri on full health basically with 3 ships all on half.

Im still not sure how things will settle. Running could be about as frequent but just less predictable who has the option to do it? Fewer double repositions should help.

One thing to mention...Kylo didn't hold points because small base half didnt exist. He held points because he was expensive and could choose at will not to be shot ( Still possible ).

If Poe has slam I imagine he will do very much the same thing in 2.0.

2 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

I would agree they should be less likely to happen. Half points is kinda risky!

It'll be interesting to see where list building trends go. That said, the list points aren't what determines whether a fleet goes to final salvo. I had a list setup at 199 points that had 13 red dice to toss - not quite a match for a 7 TIE swarm, but significant. I phased it out though without flying as I managed a 200 point list with 15 instead.

Right, I was forgetting that it is based on points killed, not points left.

3 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

That was the exact scenario. Guri on full health basically with 3 ships all on half.

Im still not sure how things will settle. Running could be about as frequent but just less predictable who has the option to do it? Fewer double repositions should help.

One thing to mention...Kylo didn't hold points because small base half didnt exist. He held points because he was expensive and could choose at will not to be shot ( Still possible ).

If Poe has slam I imagine he will do very much the same thing in 2.0.

I would bet that you may see more ships with shield/hull upgrade to get to an odd amount of HP. Guri with hull/shield upgrade could be a strong points locker.

One more X-Wing night till 2.0... I was worried I might actually have to play a game of 1.0 since we finished our HotAC campaign, but thankfully somebody asked if they could bring out their huge ships... Epic final night rather than 1.0... Meaningless fun. Decision tree looks like this for me: 150 point Raider, or 150 point GR75 with five X-Wings.

4 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

One thing to mention...Kylo didn't hold points because small base half didnt exist. He held points because he was expensive and could choose at will not to be shot ( Still possible ).

If Poe has slam I imagine he will do very much the same thing in 2.0.

I don't know if I agree with that...I saw plenty of Kylo running away with a couple hull. Kylo is going to need wingmates to get him in a win condition, too. Also, we don't know for sure what his ability actually does. The new damage deck certainly doesn't give him the "I win" button it used...but possibly a different "I win" button (Panicked Pilot is truly a ship killer)? Poe looks to be able to SLAM once, and if I'm playing him, I'm probably SLAMing to kill something, not run.

This might just be wishful thinking on my part. I'm okay with some running and miracle comebacks from an ace...I'd just rather not see, "Oh, I'm up on points, let's set dials for the next 30 minutes until the game ends."

3 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I don't know if I agree with that...I saw plenty of Kylo running away with a couple hull. Kylo is going to need wingmates to get him in a win condition, too. Also, we don't know for sure what his ability actually does. The new damage deck certainly doesn't give him the "I win" button it used...but possibly a different "I win" button (Panicked Pilot is truly a ship killer)? Poe looks to be able to SLAM once, and if I'm playing him, I'm probably SLAMing to kill something, not run.

 This might just be wishful thinking on my part. I'm okay with some running and miracle comebacks from an ace...I'd just rather not see, "Oh, I'm up on points, let's set dials for the next 30 minutes until the game ends."

Yea not saying Kylo didnt run away on a hull in 1.0. He did. But he always had the option of not losing any of that hull in the first place.

Kylo could always run away, but that hp buffer was what let him attack and claim points for a while. Running any time there's a threat of any damage is the Ace equivalent of bomb fortressing with two Scurrgs. Yeah, it works when the other player does exactly what your plan is, but they have to not be paying attention to get that far.

That's not even considering the presence of Wedge or Soontir. You can avoid their squad, and you can avoid them, but you can't do both and expect to do any damage.

11 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Kylo could always run away, but that hp buffer was what let him attack and claim points for a while. Running any time there's a threat of any damage is the Ace equivalent of bomb fortressing with two Scurrgs. Yeah, it works when the other player does exactly what your plan is, but they have to not be paying attention to get that far.

That's not even considering the presence of Wedge or Soontir. You can avoid their squad, and you can avoid them, but you can't do both and expect to do any damage.

...which makes pricing for Kylo interesting. It seems like he'd be somewhere close to Luke, probably a little more expensive. Assuming Supernatural and probably Primed Thrusters (for which we also don't know point cost), he'll probably be pushing 80+ points. I won't have faith in a lot of people to make him worth those points against Soontir or Wedge....or Vader....or Whisper....or Redline...or Guri....

Yeah, I'm cool with Kylo (assuming ISYTDS is the same and made up point cost). I'm happy for someone to prove it to me.

37 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Kylo could always run away, but that hp buffer was what let him attack and claim points for a while. Running any time there's a threat of any damage is the Ace equivalent of bomb fortressing with two Scurrgs. Yeah, it works when the other player does exactly what your plan is, but they have to not be paying attention to get that far.

That's not even considering the presence of Wedge or Soontir. You can avoid their squad, and you can avoid them, but you can't do both and expect to do any damage.

Agreed. Hopefully the entire approach of starting a game with Kylo without the intention to do damage will end up being a very bad idea in 2.0.

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Agreed. Hopefully the entire approach of starting a game with Kylo without the intention to do damage will end up being a very bad idea in 2.0.

I hope for that to be a bad idea for anything.

Since Coruscant is a meme format, all I can think of is meme lists. Boba and proton bombs on a Jakku gunrunner is 37 points. If you also have Beckett in your squad, you can move a rock then place your tugboat on it in the new spot.

It seems like you should be able to guarantee a round one Proton bomb on something, right? You could even put plating on it for an extra 4 points and back up to their starting zone.

Are 3 Bombers or 2 Punishers better wing-mates for Vader?

Vader and Scimitars (195)
Darth Vader — TIE Advanced	70
Supernatural Reflexes	12
Fire-Control System	3
Afterburners	8
Ship Total: 93
 	
Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber	28
Barrage Rockets	6
Ship Total: 34
 	
Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber	28
Barrage Rockets	6
Ship Total: 34
 	
Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber	28
Barrage Rockets	6
Ship Total: 34

or:

Vader and Cutlesses (193)
Darth Vader — TIE Advanced	70
Supernatural Reflexes	12
Fire-Control System	3
Afterburners	8
Ship Total: 93
 	
Cutlass Squadron Pilot — TIE Punisher	36
Trajectory Simulator	3
Barrage Rockets	6
Proton Bombs	5
Ship Total: 50
 	
Cutlass Squadron Pilot — TIE Punisher	36
Trajectory Simulator	3
Barrage Rockets	6
Proton Bombs	5
Ship Total: 50

53 minutes ago, impspy said:

Are 3 Bombers or 2 Punishers better wing-mates for Vader?

Vader and Scimitars (195)
Darth Vader — TIE Advanced	70
Supernatural Reflexes	12
Fire-Control System	3
Afterburners	8
Ship Total: 93
 	
Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber	28
Barrage Rockets	6
Ship Total: 34
 	
Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber	28
Barrage Rockets	6
Ship Total: 34
 	
Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber	28
Barrage Rockets	6
Ship Total: 34

or:

Vader and Cutlesses (193)
Darth Vader — TIE Advanced	70
Supernatural Reflexes	12
Fire-Control System	3
Afterburners	8
Ship Total: 93
 	
Cutlass Squadron Pilot — TIE Punisher	36
Trajectory Simulator	3
Barrage Rockets	6
Proton Bombs	5
Ship Total: 50
 	
Cutlass Squadron Pilot — TIE Punisher	36
Trajectory Simulator	3
Barrage Rockets	6
Proton Bombs	5
Ship Total: 50

But what about the phantoms? Maybe? I dont really know how to architect a vader list other than to put 0-0-0 in somewhere though.

Actual Question:

If it turns out that supernatural reflects and/or bomb spam is a dominant strategy... are you guys interested in playing "Supernatural Reflexes: The Miniatures Bidding Game" or "Turret-Bomb-Trajectory Simulator-spam: The Miniatures Game"?


Again, just assume that it's a dominant strategy (not actually proven, just a concern).

16 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Actual Question:

If it turns out that supernatural reflects and/or bomb spam is a dominant strategy... are you guys interested in playing "Supernatural Reflexes: The Miniatures Bidding Game" or "Turret-Bomb-Trajectory Simulator-spam: The Miniatures Game"?

Again, just assume that it's a dominant strategy (not actually proven, just a concern).

Those are tough choices...both are probably going to get hit with a variable up up up.

If we are talking 2.0 Turret and not 1.0 Turret then Trajectory Wing probably.

Pre-movement reposition that can also turn into unblockable dice mod actions is not really something I am ok with, despite how much I have used it and enjoyed Aces as a crutch in 1.0 and now the early days of 2.0.

Trajectory Sim on the other hand has direct counterplay at most initiative levels ( don't be a formation, don't just joust the punisher, etc ).

Supernatural Reflexes Vader and 2-4 solid mid/early game ships (not sure this exists yet?) that can handle a swarm of generics seems like it would be more restrictive in the list building stage than trajectory sim.

9 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Actual Question:

If it turns out that supernatural reflects and/or bomb spam is a dominant strategy... are you guys interested in playing "Supernatural Reflexes: The Miniatures Bidding Game" or "Turret-Bomb-Trajectory Simulator-spam: The Miniatures Game"?


Again, just assume that it's a dominant strategy (not actually proven, just a concern).

2.0 Bombs would be a way more interesting meta than the Supernat bidding game because it it predictive and position based. Supernat is probably better than 1.0 Turret/Bombs, though. The Supernat counter to other Supernats is a bigger bid, which means less and less stuff is on the table. 1.0 bombs didn't prep for the mirror by getting worse against everything else.

I'm also way more convinced the incompetent screw up Supernat more often than they screw up 1.0 Nymiranda, for example.

1-2 bomb carriers is interesting.

3-5 bomb carriers is significantly less ‘interesting ‘ with much less feasible counterplay, I suspect.

1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

1-2 bomb carriers is interesting.

3-5 bomb carriers is significantly less ‘interesting ‘ with much less feasible counterplay, I suspect.

3-5 bombers in 2.0 starts to be very selectively bad against a lot of stuff, I suspect, or at least difficult enough that someone who does well with it probably earned it.

To expand, I hear people talking about the 4 Sim Punisher and I can't bring myself to get too worried. Crappy guns + massed bombs are really good against some stuff, but really bad against other stuff.

Forgive my optimism, but I feel like this is where X-wings might actually shine with their versatility. Maneuverable enough to avoid bombs and dodge some arcs. Agile enough to not get wrecked too quickly by massed 2 dice attacks, and hit points enough to soak a bomber two and not really care.

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

3-5 bombers in 2.0 starts to be very selectively bad against a lot of stuff, I suspect, or at least difficult enough that someone who does well with it probably earned it.

That's very generous of you.

Also, while x-wings may feasibly beat some bombers... it wont beat much else.

31 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

1-2 bomb carriers is interesting.

3-5 bomb carriers is significantly less ‘interesting ‘ with much less feasible counterplay, I suspect.

Depends on the carriers.

2 Punishers with Trajectory and Missiles are everywhere right now and honestly the main thing that concerns me about them is how cheap Deathrain/Redline are for their immediate easy access to full dice modification on 9 hp.

I don't have any particular attachment to Trajectory Sim as a card and would be totally fine if it were priced out of being truly playable out right. Maybe its just FFGs fortress meta insurance?

After running 5 strikers with bombs, Deathfire with bombs, Constable Zuvio protons, and a couple different scum Y-Wings with protons its been pretty fun to experiment with but thats all been in fewer #s besides the striker list.

Bomb Swarm Options?

• Quadjumpers
• Y-Wing
• Strikers ( 5 )
• Hwks
• Tie Bombers
• Cutlass Tragedy ( 4 )
• K-Wings
• What else...

10 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Also, while x-wings may feasibly beat some bombers... it wont beat much else.

You think so? What do you think is going to beat up on X-wings? They seem solid and adaptable to me.

5 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

You think so? What do you think is going to beat up on X-wings? They seem solid and adaptable to me.

Fangs generally, Boba, Vader, Kylo, TIE Swarms (this being the primary one).

(opens up a list builder)

Decimators, VCXs (possibly, they're much less explored), grand inquisitor, Defenders, maybe TIE strikers, Probably Guri.

That's a quick list.

@Brunas?

I don't really see why X-wings would be excessively troubled by those ships. Yes, you made a list of good ships, but I can imagine ways X-wings can successfully engage those ships.

They're not the best at anything, but they're good enough at enough things to give them a chance against most things.

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

I don't really see why X-wings would be excessively troubled by those ships. Yes, you made a list of good ships, but I can imagine ways X-wings can successfully engage those ships.

They're not the best at anything, but they're good enough at enough things to give them a chance against most things.

It's that x-wings cost at least 41, and are simply overpriced to avoid 5X.

It's not that x-wings suck, per se, but rather that they take up too much list room, generally, for what they bring to the table, outside of a few scenarios.