4 minutes ago, Biophysical said:I don't watch streams a ton, but a lot of this comes from the fact that an early key choice can make 2-3 subsequent turns obvious, even though that initial key decision was not predicted.
Good point, that's entirely possible or even likely.
But even so: if the key turn was missed but the subsequent ones are obvious, then the question is whether you can still adapt somehow. If yes, then the initial point remains pretty much the same I think.
Just now, GreenDragoon said:Good point, that's entirely possible or even likely.
But even so: if the key turn was missed but the subsequent ones are obvious, then the question is whether you can still adapt somehow. If yes, then the initial point remains pretty much the same I think.
You don't have to adapt if you know where the key turn is in the first place.
If you recognize your disadvantage too late, pulling weird unexpected moves (cutting your losses and changing targets, as a possible example) can help.
A lot of times, the predictable move is defensively safe, but not necessarily ofensively open. Players pick this "right" move because opponents frequently don't take the high risk moves that would force a high risk move to chase. If you see that you're at a disadvantage, you can often bail out in a direction that forces the advantaged ship to commit to something less than ideal. That's the escape move that you look for.
1 minute ago, Biophysical said:I would be very surprised if all three of those pilots didn't see a points bump on the next adjustment.
Lol, that's not what I was meaning, I just wasn't done with my post and for some reason, sometimes, if I tag someone then hit the space bar, the board posts it. I was only quoting @Boom Owl as an example, because of the list.
I'm just confused, and you know this all too well @Biophysical, why most people keep looking at everything. Does anyone really believe you'll be able to field a full conversion kit list in any FFG event smaller than a Hyperspace Cup level? It seems like there's a huge portion of the community which is setting themselves up for disappointment when the list/ship/pilot/archetype they've been playing around with isn't available in an FFG event for months or longer.
@Tlfj200, you've said you're only looking at wave 1. Is that still the case? I'm looking for a...I don't know...help? A voice of reason?
14 minutes ago, Biophysical said:I would be very surprised if all three of those pilots didn't see a points bump on the next adjustment.
The thing is Redline and Punishers are not the only things that can throw fully modified Proton Torps. They just do it easier I guess.
I think there is all kinds of unexplored Alpha strike type stuff involving Han Gunner.
6 minutes ago, gennataos said:Lol, that's not what I was meaning, I just wasn't done with my post and for some reason, sometimes, if I tag someone then hit the space bar, the board posts it. I was only quoting @Boom Owl as an example, because of the list.
I'm just confused, and you know this all too well @Biophysical, why most people keep looking at everything. Does anyone really believe you'll be able to field a full conversion kit list in any FFG event smaller than a Hyperspace Cup level? It seems like there's a huge portion of the community which is setting themselves up for disappointment when the list/ship/pilot/archetype they've been playing around with isn't available in an FFG event for months or longer.
@Tlfj200, you've said you're only looking at wave 1. Is that still the case? I'm looking for a...I don't know...help? A voice of reason?
I was, and now I'm nervous FFG will cave to the plebs and make all ships available. In that case, I have few ideas.
I think I've explained my reasons for supporting re-released only major events before, and stand by them.
3 minutes ago, gennataos said:I'm just confused, and you know this all too well @Biophysical, why most people keep looking at everything. Does anyone really believe you'll be able to field a full conversion kit list in any FFG event smaller than a Hyperspace Cup level? It seems like there's a huge portion of the community which is setting themselves up for disappointment when the list/ship/pilot/archetype they've been playing around with isn't available in an FFG event for months or longer.
@Tlfj200, you've said you're only looking at wave 1. Is that still the case? I'm looking for a...I don't know...help? A voice of reason?
To be honest, I'm looking at both at the same time. There are multiple levels of formats coming up.
I like playing with lots of options, I don't need 20 ships, but I do enjoy having more than 2 or 3. Wave One only feels limited when I have so many ships on the shelf gathering dust, but I have been list building with this in mind as well.
Shield Upgrades on X-Wings and Tie Phantoms seem really good.
3 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:I was, and now I'm nervous FFG will cave to the plebs and make all ships available. In that case, I have few ideas.
I think I've explained my reasons for supporting re-released only major events before, and stand by them.
You have, and I agree with them. I guess time will tell.
3 minutes ago, LagJanson said:To be honest, I'm looking at both at the same time. There are multiple levels of formats coming up.
- Wave One only
- Open 2.0 tournaments
- Threat cards (I'm not paying much attention to this beyond 'pick Vader')
I like playing with lots of options, I don't need 20 ships, but I do enjoy having more than 2 or 3. Wave One only feels limited when I have so many ships on the shelf gathering dust, but I have been list building with this in mind as well.
The big problem I am having is that when I look at overall 2.0 and Wave 1 2.0, what I want to fly is drastically different. All of the imperial stuff I want to fly is in the conversion kits - the closest is Vader, but I am not too thrilled about pairing him up with just TIEs. If I can figure out a good way to incorporate a Reaper with Vader using Wave 1 only, I will probably do that. I would rather fly Biggs/Wedge/Luke or Boba + X in Wave 1.
2 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:The big problem I am having is that when I look at overall 2.0 and Wave 1 2.0, what I want to fly is drastically different. All of the imperial stuff I want to fly is in the conversion kits - the closest is Vader, but I am not too thrilled about pairing him up with just TIEs. If I can figure out a good way to incorporate a Reaper with Vader using Wave 1 only, I will probably do that. I would rather fly Biggs/Wedge/Luke or Boba + X in Wave 1.
It's about balance.
When 3 factions have 20+ ships, and the new factions have like 5, it will be super, super stupid.
1 minute ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:The big problem I am having is that when I look at overall 2.0 and Wave 1 2.0, what I want to fly is drastically different. All of the imperial stuff I want to fly is in the conversion kits - the closest is Vader, but I am not too thrilled about pairing him up with just TIEs. If I can figure out a good way to incorporate a Reaper with Vader using Wave 1 only, I will probably do that. I would rather fly Biggs/Wedge/Luke or Boba + X in Wave 1.
That's the general sentiment most locals have as well. They're excited about all the new stuff and aren't enamored with the restrictions of just Wave 1. But, if there's not an established baseline meta of some sort, man...it's going to be a mess for a very long time...or forever.
Just now, Tlfj200 said:It's about balance.
When 3 factions have 20+ ships, and the new factions have like 5, it will be super, super stupid.
This, too.
2 minutes ago, gennataos said:You have, and I agree with them. I guess time will tell.
I'm guessing the reasoning is because the limited format makes balancing a lot easier and is more new player friendly? I will be more fine with Wave restrictions once Wave 2 comes out and as that should broaden the meta a bit more. The only major event before wave 2 is the possible system open at Philly and I really don't care too much if it is wave restricted or not.
29 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:Im not sure this qualifies as a "ninja jouster".
"Redline" — TIE Punisher 44 Trajectory Simulator 3 Proton Torpedoes 9 Proton Rockets 7 Seismic Charges 3 Ship Total: 66 "Deathrain" — TIE Punisher 42 Trajectory Simulator 3 Adv. Proton Torpedoes 6 Barrage Rockets 6 Seismic Charges 3 Ship Total: 60 "Whisper" — TIE Phantom 52 Juke 4 Darth Vader 14 Ship Total: 70
I'm not sure you need to go full Ninja Jouster.
Basically No one understands the underlying math or positioning capability specific ships have for alpha strikes. It's as easy as "don't be the jousty list on top of Metawing"
49 minutes ago, Biophysical said:Both named Punishers can throw bombs AND fully modded Proton Torps any time they want. That seems like the obvious start, but is probably "Is Crack Swarm" more than "almost as good as Crack Swarm, but doesn't look like it until it's too late".
With Metawing gone, I think the satisfactory answer is just "Don't be TIE Swarm"
2 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:It's about balance.
When 3 factions have 20+ ships, and the new factions have like 5, it will be super, super stupid.
Which makes sense. And while I would love to fly Whisper, I am okay with a more limited format for better overall games. There are ships in Wave 1 I want to fly - just that the façade I put up of only flying one faction is going to last all of a week. I did a demo game of the Protectorates at NOVA and I am sold on those ships.
1 minute ago, gennataos said:That's the general sentiment most locals have as well. They're excited about all the new stuff and aren't enamored with the restrictions of just Wave 1. But, if there's not an established baseline meta of some sort, man...it's going to be a mess for a very long time...or forever.
This, too.
At the worst, I can fly the stuff in the casual games. And there is a charm to having a limited meta which is sort of close to what we ended up with anyways.
On full vs Wave 1 issues, I think it's just that people are so excited to play stuff that has been crapped on by meta powerhouses for so long. It's just fun to play with ships you like after such a long time dealing with the 1.0 restrictions. I expect if they said tomorrow most competitive formats will be release only, lots of people are still really happy, because wave 1 is still 100x more fun than 1.0.
Edited by Biophysical1 minute ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:At the worst, I can fly the stuff in the casual games. And there is a charm to having a limited meta which is sort of close to what we ended up with anyways.
I guess this is part of the problem I have. I'm flying only Wave 1, so it's hard to figure out of it's any good in a Wave 1 meta when everyone else I face is flying full conversion kits.
1 minute ago, Biophysical said:On full vs Wave 1 issues, I think it's just that people are so excited to play stuff that has been crapped on by meta powerhouses for so long. It's just fun to play wothvshios you like after such a long time dealing with the 1.0 restrictions. I expect if they said tomorrow most competitive formats will be release only, lots of people are still really happy, because wave 1 is still 100x more fun than 1.0.
I agree. I'm concerned, locally, there are a good portion of folks who will have nothing to do with Wave 1 only...especially if I keep showing them the swarm. Scum players, in particularly, aren't figuring that out.
1 minute ago, gennataos said:I guess this is part of the problem I have. I'm flying only Wave 1, so it's hard to figure out of it's any good in a Wave 1 meta when everyone else I face is flying full conversion kits.
When you get used to fighting up hill, you'll find level ground a much easier place to be. There will be stuff in Wave One fully up to the challenge against the rest of the kit. Vader, TIE swarms... I've got three X-Wings and a pair of Y-Wings with proton bombs lined up and ready for use.
3 minutes ago, gennataos said:I agree. I'm concerned, locally, there are a good portion of folks who will have nothing to do with Wave 1 only...especially if I keep showing them the swarm. Scum players, in particularly, aren't figuring that out.
We've got a couple of newer players that won't have enough wave one only to do anything.. They've got B-Wings, A-Wings and the Falcon, but in both cases few TIEs, no Y-Wings and only the core set X-Wing... They'll have two X-Wings come 2.0! Now these aren't the highly competitive tournament players, but they do like to show at the local store for a good time anyway.
5 minutes ago, gennataos said:I guess this is part of the problem I have. I'm flying only Wave 1, so it's hard to figure out of it's any good in a Wave 1 meta when everyone else I face is flying full conversion kits.
I agree. I'm concerned, locally, there are a good portion of folks who will have nothing to do with Wave 1 only...especially if I keep showing them the swarm. Scum players, in particularly, aren't figuring that out.
FFG won't have to make a call on what premier tournaments do until PAX unplugged at the end of November, so people can hyper-screw all new players until then.
It'll be super cool to tell new players all of their wave one is silly and quaint through then.
4 minutes ago, gennataos said:I guess this is part of the problem I have. I'm flying only Wave 1, so it's hard to figure out of it's any good in a Wave 1 meta when everyone else I face is flying full conversion kits.
I agree. I'm concerned, locally, there are a good portion of folks who will have nothing to do with Wave 1 only...especially if I keep showing them the swarm. Scum players, in particularly, aren't figuring that out.
I would expect that if FFG announces that tournaments for the immediate future are Wave 1 only, you will find Wave 1 opponents at casual night.
2 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:FFG won't have to make a call on what premier tournaments do until PAX unplugged at the end of November, so people can hyper-screw all new players until then.
It'll be super cool to tell new players all of their wave one is silly and quaint through then.
I wonder if the release of the Squad Builder will clarify this if it contains specifics on the available Game Modes.
Hopefully everything after Coruscant is Wave 1 restricted unless its a store kit type thing.
My hype level for PAX is already pretty high but if they confirm its Wave 1 only there is even more reason to be hype.
holy *** I just started to listen to episode 76 and i'm massively TRIGGERED! Changing the definition of the ace?! Well played
3 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:FFG won't have to make a call on what premier tournaments do until PAX unplugged at the end of November, so people can hyper-screw all new players until then.
It'll be super cool to tell new players all of their wave one is silly and quaint through then.
I hope that the more veteran players bring their casual lists with them to have fun against new players. Just like in 1.0, beating up against noobs with whatever is super meta is not cool.
1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:Turns out, no one ever preemptively k-turned against advanced sensors kylo, though, which would have been some real "high level looks like low level" stuff.
They did against me! Once! Also, I just boost/rolled/revealed a red out of it, but props to the guy for trying.
2 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:Just bring something really jousty and collect lunch break games.
dank
Just now, Brunas said:They did against me! Once! Also, I just boost/rolled/revealed a red out of it, but props to the guy for trying.
dank
Unironically nothing he could do.
10 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:Unironically nothing he could do.
And that is the result we should all aim for - linearizing the match into a situation where the game can be solved, with a correct solution.
The developers should make that very hard or impossible, but we as players have to try to get there.