All that training Nymanda gave us in avoiding traj sim bombs.

It is not over. ?

I really really hope they up the points on traj sim some time

.

1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:

There were a lot of reapers. There were a lot of things that PREYED on reapers (Nymranda)... There was a LOT of nymranda.

Turns out aces still don't like bombs. Weird.

Yeah, had to beat 2 Nymandas rds 5 and 6 to make 5-1 cut at UK Nationals. With old school Foss aces. Then got knocked by 1 in top 8. Never been so relieved to see the back of 1.0.

At least that particular list is gone. Sadly, bombs still seem to be very good in 2.0. Which puts even greater stress on ace flying, when some of the tools to cope (autothrusters, token stacking) are gone.

So far so good for me flying Soontir, as I used to fly a lot of Targeting Computer Soontir in 2017. So found it "relatively" easy to pick up where i left off. Though it took a lot more thought that I have been used to in a while!!!
Suspect, that bombs as 1 extra "burden" too many, will put off so many others though.

Man, in the context of Trajectory Sim, Phantoms seem even better in 2.0. They're so good at going sideways, it shouldn't be too hard to avoid the bomb.

2 minutes ago, Darth Seridur said:

Yeah, had to beat 2 Nymandas rds 5 and 6 to make 5-1 cut at UK Nationals. With old school Foss aces. Then got knocked by 1 in top 8. Never been so relieved to see the back of 1.0.

At least that particular list is gone. Sadly, bombs still seem to be very good in 2.0. Which puts even greater stress on ace flying, when some of the tools to cope (autothrusters, token stacking) are gone.

So far so good for me flying Soontir, as I used to fly a lot of Targeting Computer Soontir in 2017. So found it "relatively" easy to pick up where i left off. Though it took a lot more thought that I have been used to in a while!!!
Suspect, that bombs as 1 extra "burden" too many, will put off so many others though.

Just now, Biophysical said:

Man, in the context of Trajectory Sim, Phantoms seem even better in 2.0. They're so good at going sideways, it shouldn't be too hard to avoid the bomb.

so, aside from trajectory sim, 2.0 bombs feel pretty good (and that's coming from me).

I'd like to see sim go up in price, but I think there's a price/breakeven it's fine, probably?

Agree Travis.

No Sabine etc.Bombs looks interesting tactical choices.

It is just traj sim for me. And that is just weariness of playing so many Nymandas.

More, "do i have to keep dodging this!!!!" If i hadn't been play 1.0 in practice for Nationals, i would be fresh and ok about it.

3 minutes ago, Darth Seridur said:

Agree Travis.

No Sabine etc.Bombs looks interesting tactical choices.

It is just traj sim for me. And that is just weariness of playing so many Nymandas.

More, "do i have to keep dodging this!!!!" If i hadn't been play 1.0 in practice for Nationals, i would be fresh and ok about it.

Real question: is traj simulator as oppressive when it’s not Sabine’d and doesn’t cut through shields? I haven’t really played competitively, but it seems way lower on the power curve at first glance.

2 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

Real question: is traj simulator as oppressive when it’s not Sabine’d and doesn’t cut through shields? I haven’t really played competitively, but it seems way lower on the power curve at first glance.

17 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

so, aside from trajectory sim, 2.0 bombs feel pretty good (and that's coming from me).

I'd like to see sim go up in price, but I think there's a price/breakeven it's fine, probably?

Flung bombs are certainly way worse than they used to be, no question there. Lots of squads just get to happily tank a damage on shields and go on with their lives. I'm probably more concerned about it being on a fairly economical chassis (Punisher), whose named pilots also can get double modded Proton Torps with zero effort. The extra bomb damage stacked on top of an easy 4 hits is probably too much ability.

28 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Man, in the context of Trajectory Sim, Phantoms seem even better in 2.0. They're so good at going sideways, it shouldn't be too hard to avoid the bomb.

I faced three Trajectory Simulators in two lists. Whisper got hit by exactly one bomb all weekend when i YOLO’d right over a bomblet at 4 health to shoot down a 1-health Nym.

Decloak will be even better when they have to launch in the System phase before you pick a decloak direction.

58 minutes ago, Darth Seridur said:

Which puts even greater stress on ace flying, when some of the tools to cope (autothrusters, token stacking) are gone.

I find its not really aces that are all that scared of bombs unless its in large quantities.

Main thing i see it putting a cieling on is formation swarms.

On the aces thing though its worth mentioning that bombs of any kind can help herd them into kill boxes. Striker bomb swarms are pretty cool in that way as I find in large enough #s im using them just to restrict an opponents choices so multiple low init ships can have a better chance at knowing where things will be. Even if they dont hit anything but nudge higher init things into a bad spot its worth it. Especially once the strikers get in the scrum it prevents k turn options etc. I like it alot as another way of giving low to mid init ways to mess with things moving last. Just needs the overall power level to stay as low as possible forever and never introduce auto extra damage bombs of any kind ever again ever. Bombs are one of those things that should always be hard to use.

5 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I find its not really aces that are all that scared of bombs unless its in large quantities.

Main thing i see it putting a cieling on is formation swarms.

On the aces thing though its worth mentioning that bombs of any kind can help herd them into kill boxes. Striker bomb swarms are pretty cool in that way as I find in large enough #s im using them just to restrict an opponents choices so multiple low init ships can have a better chance at knowing where things will be. Even if they dont hit anything but nudge higher init things into a bad spot its worth it. Especially once the strikers get in the scrum it prevents k turn options etc. I like it alot as another way of giving low to mid init ways to mess with things moving last. Just needs the overall power level to stay as low as possible forever and never introduce auto extra damage bombs of any kind ever again ever

Yup, bombs and Traj Sim is kind of necessary in 2.0 with how strong swarms and generics are..

5 minutes ago, baranidlo said:

Yup, bombs and Traj Sim is kind of necessary in 2.0 with how strong swarms and generics are..

I don't know if Traj Sim itself is necessary but it works pretty well with some setup.

There are other ways to fight a swarm of generics besides that and bombs.

There a decent # of 2.0 ships that can semi comfortably take on howl/iden combos.

I think a lot of the success of TS against swarms is going to disappear once the swarm player releases that they don't need Howlrunner to gun down Punishers. Fly in an actual swarm instead of a formation and just pick them to pieces. Two dice guns work just fine against one agility targets.

1 minute ago, HolySorcerer said:

I think a lot of the success of TS against swarms is going to disappear once the swarm player releases that they don't need Howlrunner to gun down Punishers. Fly in an actual swarm instead of a formation and just pick them to pieces. Two dice guns work just fine against one agility targets.

I think that's over-generalizing that matchup.

If the howl swarm splits (which it probably should), one would hope the punisher list brought something ELSE that punishes that, hard, like a vader, or soontir, etc.

Just now, Tlfj200 said:

I think that's over-generalizing that matchup.

If the howl swarm splits (which it probably should), one would hope the punisher list brought something ELSE that punishes that, hard, like a vader, or soontir, etc.

Eh, Fel has never really had much problem dodging the whole TIE formation. In a swarm layout there is no way he is dodging every arc, and two dice guns can easily hit Fel now, as blanks are blanks.

10 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Eh, Fel has never really had much problem dodging the whole TIE formation. In a swarm layout there is no way he is dodging every arc, and two dice guns can easily hit Fel now, as blanks are blanks.

While it might be correct to not fly in formation, people didn't bring howl and iden to NOT fly in formation.

2 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

While it might be correct to not fly in formation, people didn't bring howl and iden to NOT fly in formation.

Sure, but if flying in formation means your whole squad eats a TS proton bomb then you probably shouldn't do it. Splitting up is the least worst option of the two, I just think a lot of players won't consider it because they "didn't bring howl and iden to NOT fly in formation". This will lead to bad players complaining that Punishers or TS is OP, like how bad Overwatch players complain about Bastion.

1 minute ago, HolySorcerer said:

Sure, but if flying in formation means your whole squad eats a TS proton bomb then you probably shouldn't do it. Splitting up is the least worst option of the two, I just think a lot of players won't consider it because they "didn't bring howl and iden to NOT fly in formation". This will lead to bad players complaining that Punishers or TS is OP, like how bad Overwatch players complain about Bastion.

I agree.

3 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Sure, but if flying in formation means your whole squad eats a TS proton bomb then you probably shouldn't do it. Splitting up is the least worst option of the two, I just think a lot of players won't consider it because they "didn't bring howl and iden to NOT fly in formation". This will lead to bad players complaining that Punishers or TS is OP, like how bad Overwatch players complain about Bastion.

So bringing the Trajectory Simulator is a win-win scenario against the swarm then, right?

Just now, baranidlo said:

So bringing the Trajectory Simulator is a win-win scenario against the swarm then, right?

Yes.

There are many solutions, but the tragedy simulator is the easiest.

22 minutes ago, baranidlo said:

So bringing the Trajectory Simulator is a win-win scenario against the swarm then, right?

Absolutely. If they're stupid they'll try to joust you and you'll drop crits on the whole formation, if they're smart they'll scatter and you'll have reduced their damage output. You just have to make sure that the rest of your list can handle the TIEs, as they'll have no trouble destroying the Punishers even without Howlrunner.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

Sure, but if flying in formation means your whole squad eats a TS proton bomb then you probably shouldn't do it. Splitting up is the least worst option of the two, I just think a lot of players won't consider it because they "didn't bring howl and iden to NOT fly in formation". This will lead to bad players complaining that Punishers or TS is OP, like how bad Overwatch players complain about Bastion.

The topic of TS bombs, for me, is not about players being bad or anything possibly being OP. It’s that TS bombs on a value-costed punisher directly counters an entire archetype pretty hard. Those punishers are also just good, so they’re a good choice for a list, in general. As long as swarms are a threat, most good imperial lists, by default, will include a TS punisher. That’ll constrict list building, which kinda sucks.

4 minutes ago, gennataos said:

The topic of TS bombs, for me, is not about players being bad or anything possibly being OP. It’s that TS bombs on a value-costed punisher directly counters an entire archetype pretty hard. Those punishers are also just good, so they’re a good choice for a list, in general. As long as swarms are a threat, most good imperial lists, by default, will include a TS punisher. That’ll constrict list building, which kinda sucks.

I think this is mainly because people really really really really really really really really really really really want to joust

7 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I think this is mainly because people really really really really really really really really really really really want to joust

I'm...not sure what you mean, in the context of a reply to me. Sure, a TIE swarm wants to joust. Do you mean a punisher is good because people want to joust? Do you mean people are saying punishers and/or TS bombs are OP because they want to joust?

I'm not saying anything other than I don't want to see TS-bombing punishers in every imperial list I face, nor do I want to feel compelled to included a TS-bombing punisher in every imperial list I play. Not because they're OP, but because that'd be boring.

27 minutes ago, gennataos said:

TS-bombing punishers in every imperial list I face, nor do I want to feel compelled to included a TS-bombing punisher in every imperial list I play.

Specifically commenting on this. I think people will gravitate towards Punishers and Trajectory Sim just because its such an obvious answer to swarms and it can turn the joust in their favor.

Im still not sure TS Bombing Punishers are the best answer to swarms since they might not be best answer to everything else we will see.

And we are going to see things besides swarms and tie bombers/punishers.

31 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Specifically commenting on this. I think people will gravitate towards Punishers and Trajectory Sim just because its such an obvious answer to swarms and it can turn the joust in their favor.

Im still not sure TS Bombing Punishers are the best answer to swarms since they might not be best answer to everything else we will see.

And we are going to see things besides swarms and tie bombers/punishers.

Just about every game of X-Wing ends up a joust, so why not bring the most obviously good jousting thing?