12 minutes ago, Brunas said:

There's an implied "and still be shooting" in your post, which is where the disconnect is

I think I understand that. The reason I still don‘t believe is a mix of personal preference and the then inherent problem:

1. I do not want to spend 75mim every game melting my brain to evade as many arcs as possible. It seems I don‘t have the stamina for that, and I don‘t think it‘s fun.

2. It then means that Kylo/Vader is only great if your opponent doesn‘t know. If he is able to set up a castle and willing to wait then the strength of the build plummets.

I guess it irks me to hype a ship when it primarily relies so much on an opponent not knowing.

16 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Half the reason the xwing community at large sucks at things like kylo is because they're unwilling to be patient - they'll run out of bombs, you'll never run out of force.

I saw this before you edited it and thought I had the player types mixed up and looked them up.

I feel played.

18 minutes ago, Brunas said:

There's an implied "and still be shooting" in your post, which is where the disconnect is. A kylo/supernatural ace that's willing to just leave (and I do mean 45+ minutes) until you run out of bombs or get split up is the concern.

Yes, you aren't going to dodge 6 arcs, 4 bombs, and still get shots. The problem is, as you continue to just disengage, it's harder and harder for those ships to cover the larger area you can run to, and eventually you'll get behind them with said supernatural ace.

Half the reason the xwing community at large sucks at things like kylo is because they're unwilling to be patient - they'll run out of bombs, you'll never run out of force.

To be fair, Punishers have white reload. They don't run out of bombs.

40 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Half the reason the xwing community at large sucks at things like kylo is because they're unwilling to be patient - they'll run out of bombs, you'll never run out of force.

13th Pillar?

14 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

To be fair, Punishers have white reload. They don't run out of bombs.

Deathrain be like...

23 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I think I understand that. The reason I still don‘t believe is a mix of personal preference and the then inherent problem:

1. I do not want to spend 75mim every game melting my brain to evade as many arcs as possible. It seems I don‘t have the stamina for that, and I don‘t think it‘s fun.

2. It then means that Kylo/Vader is only great if your opponent doesn‘t know. If he is able to set up a castle and willing to wait then the strength of the build plummets.

I guess it irks me to hype a ship when it primarily relies so much on an opponent not knowing.

yeah, which is why I extra don't like it - most players aren't willing to fortress, and good/dominant strategies should be fun. If we're watching kylo soontir set dials as fast as possible while a judge makes a fortressing tie swarm set dials every turn, something went wrong long ago...

With that being said, Kylo would have my attention even at 0 agility. I don't think that's true for the other force users. Up Up Up?

23 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I saw this before you edited it and thought I had the player types mixed up and looked them up.

I feel played.

rekt

3 hours ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

Is that a card in the 2.0 dmg deck? I did a quick search and didn't see it in the leaks I pulled up.

Whoops! I meant panicked pilot!

2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Super Vader and Super Luke might just be the small base arc equivalent to gunner luke for turrets and I just havent realized it or admitted it to myself yet.

Yep.

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Super Vader is absolutely the equivalent to Gunner Luke. Super Luke is not situationally as bad because he has a harder time getting perfect information and can't do extra actions off of his Supernatural action. He's still pretty much like that though.

Yep.

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

30 point Supernatural Reflexes? Maybe not. 18-20 might make it closer to not being a "stapled" upgrade, though.

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Kylo would be a monster in 2.0

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

But why? I don‘t understand.

They don‘t have evade, just 3 greens with focus/force (reducing their offense!).

2.0 will see so many arcs. Just by volume Vader/Kylo will take damage.

But then there are also all these bombs! Sure you can dodge some. But 4 protons cover a huge area. I don‘t believe that you dodge all bombs and all arcs at the same time.

I understand that dodging most arcs was enough in 1.0, but I don‘t see why that remains the same in 2.0 because you have fewer defensive tokens.

As soon as 3+ guns are on Vader/Kylo he will take damage.

As @Brunas said, it implies you're shooting kylo. You basically never are, except maybe with a single shot at some incredible range. Phildo is the most wholesome kylo player I've ever seen, because people let him. I am on camera not letting people shoot me with Kylo (and still lost, mind you), but at no point was kylo my problem.

I can promise you, if you hand me supernatural kylo, and he has the same silencer dial as 1.0 (or close), you will not get shots until *I* say so. You might kill the rest of my list, but it won't be kylo that's my weak link.

I would happily pay 30 points for supernatural Kylo.

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

I think I understand that. The reason I still don‘t believe is a mix of personal preference and the then inherent problem:

1. I do not want to spend 75mim every game melting my brain to evade as many arcs as possible. It seems I don‘t have the stamina for that, and I don‘t think it‘s fun.

2. It then means that Kylo/Vader is only great if your opponent doesn‘t know. If he is able to set up a castle and willing to wait then the strength of the build plummets.

I guess it irks me to hype a ship when it primarily relies so much on an opponent not knowing.

castling doesn't necessarily solve your problem if the rest of the list has some sort of differential threat than kylo presents (like 2 gunboats in 1.0).

There are very few fortresses we were afraid of in 1.0, and the mostly were FSR 2 and wookies, because they were totally "not turrets" or because FSR shut your list down so hard while also not taking damage it wasn't worth it.

I had a 100 pt ace fortress against me once. I 100-0ed it.

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

I think I understand that. The reason I still don‘t believe is a mix of personal preference and the then inherent problem:

1. I do not want to spend 75mim every game melting my brain to evade as many arcs as possible. It seems I don‘t have the stamina for that, and I don‘t think it‘s fun.

2. It then means that Kylo/Vader is only great if your opponent doesn‘t know. If he is able to set up a castle and willing to wait then the strength of the build plummets.

I guess it irks me to hype a ship when it primarily relies so much on an opponent not knowing.

next post because I submitted too quickly.

I don't think this relies on "not knowing.' You can't so easily stop my supernatural vader or luke if you're lower PS than I am. It's doable, but only with very speccific ships or list types, which not everyone will want to bring (because either they're not broadly good, or simply not personally fun).

Advanced sensors Kylo (1.0) was never "okay," it's just so many other things were also not okay, it just didn't matter.

12 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

As @Brunas said, it implies you're shooting kylo. You basically never are, except maybe with a single shot at some incredible range. Phildo is the most wholesome kylo player I've ever seen, because people let him. I am on camera not letting people shoot me with Kylo (and still lost, mind you), but at no point was kylo my problem.

I can promise you, if you hand me supernatural kylo, and he has the same silencer dial as 1.0 (or close), you will not get shots until *I* say so. You might kill the rest of my list, but it won't be kylo that's my weak link.

I would happily pay 30 points for supernatural Kylo.

2 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

castling doesn't necessarily solve your problem if the rest of the list has some sort of differential threat than kylo presents (like 2 gunboats in 1.0).

There are very few fortresses we were afraid of in 1.0, and the mostly were FSR 2 and wookies, because they were totally "not turrets" or because FSR shut your list down so hard while also not taking damage it wasn't worth it.

I had a 100 pt ace fortress against me once. I 100-0ed it.

Just now, Tlfj200 said:

next post because I submitted too quickly.

I don't think this relies on "not knowing.' You can't so easily stop my supernatural vader or luke if you're lower PS than I am. It's doable, but only with very speccific ships or list types, which not everyone will want to bring (because either they're not broadly good, or simply not personally fun).

Advanced sensors Kylo (1.0) was never "okay," it's just so many other things were also not okay, it just didn't matter.

It's clear that you know what you're talking about. I still don't really believe you because I've neither seen nor experienced it. I understand I'm wrong, but I don't think I can play it well enough to see for myself, nor is anyone here able to do so. Lucky me I guess.

23 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

It's clear that you know what you're talking about. I still don't really believe you because I've neither seen nor experienced it. I understand I'm wrong, but I don't think I can play it well enough to see for myself, nor is anyone here able to do so. Lucky me I guess.

You certainly could have played it well in 1.0 i promise you that. Didnt you take Quiz/QD/Nu 5-1 or something?

If you could approach patiently with that consistently you can probably sort out not engaging at all with 1.0 Kylo. That list at least needed to know how to set up a good engagement. The 1.0 version of Kylo wasnt hard. Basically just avoided things until it was ok. To points above alot of it depended on turning away for a couple turns to engage when its safe or waiting for other stuff in your list to make it safe.

Force charges and fewer 180-360s though are a big deal. I could see 2.0 kylo being able to play alot more aggressively than Soontir can possible imagine right now. Somewhere in between Vaders whatever its fine i got mods and Soontirs maybe I shouldnt go there style. Though Vader shouldnt go there either i guess.

20 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

It's clear that you know what you're talking about. I still don't really believe you because I've neither seen nor experienced it. I understand I'm wrong, but I don't think I can play it well enough to see for myself, nor is anyone here able to do so. Lucky me I guess.

Not surprised you don't believe, but I'm sure you could do it, it's not much of a skill thing. Dial in a reasonable fast move with Kylo, and boost/roll away if there's no safe place to go otherwise. Rinse/repeat for 75 minutes. If the game goes to salvo, it goes to salvo. Basically, like you said earlier, banking on your opponent not believing you're willing to take the 6vX salvo. It's an alarmingly good strategy, and probably shouldn't be, haha.

Take soontir and do laps around the board edge away from your opponent (and I do mean literal laps - 4 straight boost every turn) until your opponent bites into kylo hard enough there's no risk of being blocked.

Fun! Skill! Or something...

The only ship I have issues running away is Asajj because she has a 5 forward and getting caught in the mobile arc at range 1-2 is bad. But it still wasn't hard except for a key turn or two where you can almost get caught. And that was with the Inquisitor. Kylo is just impossible.

5 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Fun! Skill! Or something...

I have to admit that I had a great deal of “fun” doing exactly that to two ship turret lists in the final dark days of 1.0.

I hope small base half pts and average list sizes ideally greater than 3 makes that tactic alot less available going forward though.

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I have to admit that I had a great deal of “fun” doing exactly that to two ship turret lists in the final dark days of 1.0.

I hope small base half pts and average list sizes ideally greater than 3 makes that tactic alot less available going forward though.

I think that half points on all is going to be a really big deal for this. You can't just run away with 2 HP, you probably still need to fight as you are down a big chuck of points being at half.

Came across this internal debate and wanted to get people's thoughts....

Would you rather have a I1 Tie Striker or an I1 Tie Interceptor? Same point cost at 34. Most likely being used in a squad with Admiral Sloane.

Striker just because it is more fun to fly.

13 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

I think that half points on all is going to be a really big deal for this. You can't just run away with 2 HP, you probably still need to fight as you are down a big chuck of points being at half.

I've seen this scenario play out, which is why I'm out on R2-D2 Luke. I'm running away! Oh, crap, you plinked off that shield I just regenned. Here's 40+ points. GG.

4 minutes ago, RStan said:

Came across this internal debate and wanted to get people's thoughts....

Would you rather have a I1 Tie Striker or an I1 Tie Interceptor? Same point cost at 34. Most likely being used in a squad with Admiral Sloane.

Interceptor, I think. Autothrusters probably gives you better information for blocking than the Ailerons and it's optional. The shorter turn-arounds for strikers are pretty hilarious, though.

3 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I've seen this scenario play out, which is why I'm out on R2-D2 Luke. I'm running away! Oh, crap, you plinked off that shield I just regenned. Here's 40+ points. GG.

That's why I was thinking that R5-D8 is better because you can regen back to half points if you are at least not dead. But I also think that going for regen as a win condition is not a good idea, at least as your primary win condition.

13 minutes ago, RStan said:

Came across this internal debate and wanted to get people's thoughts....

Would you rather have a I1 Tie Striker or an I1 Tie Interceptor? Same point cost at 34. Most likely being used in a squad with Admiral Sloane.

I think there's not a wrong choice, with this opinion coming from very little play with either I1 generic. I think personally, I take the Interceptor. It can go faster overall amd can stall with the 1-hard + barrel roll. The 1-hard in general (and not only on the end of an ailerons move) is a really fantastic move.

All that being said, 2 of each can be made from a single conversion pack so put them both in a squad and see what you think.

@Biophysical seems like a good idea, 2 Strikers and 2 Interceptors fit with Sloane in Whisper. Try that out til I can make a more informed decision. Maybe a mix ends up being good, but seeing how each play out will be good.

" i am just here to read the comments "

alls soon

very soon

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