10 minutes ago, RStan said:

Look anything like this?

Close, but more like this

7 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

Close, but more like this

Oh that's a VERY healthy Whisper. I do like Grand Inquisitor on Whisper, but at least in my list I like the idea of the Proton Bombs and Vader crew threatening 2 auto damage or get rid of a green token which should help Whisper "detoken" the target if it had any left via Juke for the Proton Torpedoes.

10 minutes ago, RStan said:

Oh that's a VERY healthy Whisper. I do like Grand Inquisitor on Whisper, but at least in my list I like the idea of the Proton Bombs and Vader crew threatening 2 auto damage or get rid of a green token which should help Whisper "detoken" the target for the Proton Torpedoes.

If you havent used Grand Inq crew Whisper yet try it out. It makes those 2 blue banks look pretty nice against stuff that moves first. I tried it out with predator instead of juke to stay at 70 pts and it helped alot in making little barrel roll adjustments when stuff moved and still being able to focus after. Not sure I like it better than Juke/Vader but its got its own flavor for sure.

Just now, Boom Owl said:

If you havent used Grand Inq crew Whisper yet try it out. It makes those 2 blue banks look pretty nice against stuff that moves first. I tried it out with predator instead of juke to stay at 70 pts and it helped alot in making little barrel roll adjustments when stuff moved and still being able to focus after. Not sure I like it better than Juke/Vader but its got its own flavor for sure.

I do plan to try a lot of variations of Whisper. The Juke Grand Inq crew one I'm gonna test is backed up by a Sai Lambda with Vader and Informant crew. I should have dial knowledge before the decloak in system phase with informant and Grand Inq against anything moving after me. Seems pretty good rounded out with Lone Wolf Soontir.

42 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

You can also hilariously reload the bomb you just dropped with the free Deathrain action. I'll probably just do that on approach turning set up just for the lolz.

or you can TS, reload and set up a bump on your opponent because thats a fair thing to do too.

9 minutes ago, RynoZero said:

 or you can TS, reload and set up a bump on your opponent because thats a fair thing to do too.

They really are decent blockers with both boost and barrel roll on the dial. Particularly deathrain.

Have you guys tried the phantoms? I would really like to fly them as I think those models are beautiful, but I'm quite unsure on how well they will fare since they need to keep that evade rolling if they want to keep on juking&cloaking, but they are just barely tankier than a 1.0 fenn rau and 1.0 fenn rau dies in 2 rounds of shooting on average...

14 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Have you guys tried the phantoms? I would really like to fly them as I think those models are beautiful, but I'm quite unsure on how well they will fare since they need to keep that evade rolling if they want to keep on juking&cloaking, but they are just barely tankier than a 1.0 fenn rau and 1.0 fenn rau dies in 2 rounds of shooting on average...

So does 2.0 fenn Ray, if you get shot by multiple sources

1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

Have you guys tried the phantoms? I would really like to fly them as I think those models are beautiful, but I'm quite unsure on how well they will fare since they need to keep that evade rolling if they want to keep on juking&cloaking, but they are just barely tankier than a 1.0 fenn rau and 1.0 fenn rau dies in 2 rounds of shooting on average...

Yes! They are good fun. Best part is that they take damage when things shoot at them but feel just durable enough that you dont have to be afraid to mix it up or avoid playing directly all the time. What if I told you there was a T65 X-Wing that could focus with 2 evades every turn and decide to stay cloaked when in trouble or decloak and dial in a 3-4 speed to peace out when neccesary. Oh and it has hard 1 turns. And it has huge numbers of great crew options. Phantoms are that X-Wing. Even the generics are solid.

From experience Whisper in particular tends to have an evade token left over in a lot of rounds and if she doesnt you still have a nice little dial to work with thanks to those new 1 banks. If you want to feel a little more freedom with that evade just take ruthless or predator instead. Though Juke is the obvious choice.Using 2.0 phantoms is interesting because they still encourage you to find that balance between aggressive and patient having to set clear areas to decloak turn to turn to get their full effect. But you dont feel trapped in the old shoot first or die ACD game. Which means both you and your opponent both get to play the game on average.

Also should say almost all small base ships including phantoms die quickly when taking multiple shots. Its great!

The definition of good defense itself has changed which leads to more reward for playing well. Compare nothing to 1.0 it informs almost nothing. Though if your looking for some of that 1.0 fix check out Norra, Boba, Redline/Deathrain, Luke, Vader, and maybe even Leebo. Aces can still easily dominate tons of matchups with little effort but they do it via positionig for the most part not piles of defensive tokens. And Phantoms even those not named Echo or Whisper are some of the most useful and consistent 2.0 ships I have played so far.

They are the Imperial X-Wing that FFG hinted they might be in the ama awhile back. High quality filler in tons of lists but in Whispers case still absolutely a ship you can build around.

Speaking of Phantoms and Ghosts. Have you tried the 2.0 VCX yet? Im semi looking forward to running it without a turret and just as a giant big base 4 dice forward arc but I have never put it on the table. Need to get over my imperial/scum bias first probably.

1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

Have you guys tried the phantoms? I would really like to fly them as I think those models are beautiful, but I'm quite unsure on how well they will fare since they need to keep that evade rolling if they want to keep on juking&cloaking, but they are just barely tankier than a 1.0 fenn rau and 1.0 fenn rau dies in 2 rounds of shooting on average...

Like @Boom Owl said, they are a great platform. They seem to be the most maneuverable ship in the game, especially with adv sensors. You can get some really crazy positioning. They are also a lot cheaper - the base price of Whisper dropped by 25% and you can make a solid build for 64 points. If you are able to fly a phantom well, they will be a terror and most of the things that brought them down in 1.0 have been nerfed/removed.

I saw in another thread someone thought the decimator was bad now, and while they didn't say it quite as starkly, because it died.

I think that's the biggest issue for many crossing over from 1.0: things die.

The decimator, and the ghost, have reinforce, and a TON of hp. They WILL die, but they also can do a lot of work before dying. This isn't a large shift for me, who played a 1.0 vader deci, but a pretty stark shift for people playing ghost fenn.

7 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I saw in another thread someone thought the decimator was bad now, and while they didn't say it quite as starkly, because it died.

I think that's the biggest issue for many crossing over from 1.0: things die.

The decimator, and the ghost, have reinforce, and a TON of hp. They WILL die, but they also can do a lot of work before dying. This isn't a large shift for me, who played a 1.0 vader deci, but a pretty stark shift for people playing ghost fenn.

Did people's Deci not die in 1.0? You pretty much had to play Kylo else you would lose the dmg race. Even then the Deci was likely to die.

Just now, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

Did people's Deci not die in 1.0? You pretty much had to play Kylo else you would lose the dmg race. Even then the Deci was likely to die.

Between boost and kylo crew, I’m sure most people’s deci didn’t die.

when it did, they probably stopped playing it.

I am aware the Lothal should just be Luke but something like this looks kinda fun but bad.

15 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Between boost and kylo crew, I’m sure most people’s deci didn’t die.

when it did, they probably stopped playing it.

If people are used to their ships not dying, they're in for a rude awakening with 2.0. The only thing I've seen which doesn't just flat die is a defender.

29 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

The decimator, and the ghost, have reinforce, and a TON of hp. They WILL die, but they also can do a lot of work before dying.

This is the way I'm looking at everything in 2.0. Not what will live to the end game, but rather what work can something do before it dies and if that work is worth more than itself.

21 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

Did people's Deci not die in 1.0? You pretty much had to play Kylo else you would lose the dmg race. Even then the Deci was likely to die.

You'd... be surprised. After years and years of dealing with them, people never really figured out how to deal with fat turrets with boost, so decis lived far longer than they should have...

1 minute ago, gennataos said:

If people are used to their ships not dying, they're in for a rude awakening with 2.0. The only thing I've seen which doesn't just flat die is a defender.

Basically this - I'm a little worried all our "I play rebels because I play the good guys" players, who actually like regen and winning, won't find a home in 2e because everything dies now. No more Corran or Miranda, and Poe is still up in the air.

5 minutes ago, gennataos said:

This is the way I'm looking at everything in 2.0. Not what will live to the end game, but rather what work can something do before it dies and if that work is worth more than itself.

this is a very good philosophy for looking at 2.0 list building.

41 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I saw in another thread someone thought the decimator was bad now, and while they didn't say it quite as starkly, because it died.

I think that's the biggest issue for many crossing over from 1.0: things die.

The decimator, and the ghost, have reinforce, and a TON of hp. They WILL die, but they also can do a lot of work before dying. This isn't a large shift for me, who played a 1.0 vader deci, but a pretty stark shift for people playing ghost fenn.

But 2.0 Reinforce is nerfed!!!!`111

3 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I'm a little worried all our "I play rebels because I play the good guys" players, who actually like regen and winning, won't find a home in 2e because everything dies now. No more Corran or Miranda, and Poe is still up in the air.

Regen was never my playstyle, but I've tried R2-D2/Supernatural Luke, which I'm sure Rebel-identifying players will flock towards...do not like. He costs too much to bug out for a couple turns and not contribute to the fight. I imagine there will be good R2-D2 Luke players, but that's not my bag. I'm not even convinced Supernatural is the correct call for Luke.

4 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

But 2.0 Reinforce is nerfed!!!!`111

heh.

Just now, gennataos said:

Regen was never my playstyle, but I've tried R2-D2/Supernatural Luke, which I'm sure Rebel-identifying players will flock towards...do not like. He costs too much to bug out for a couple turns and not contribute to the fight. I imagine there will be good R2-D2 Luke players, but that's not my bag. I'm not even convinced Supernatural is the correct call for Luke.

Supernatural is the correct luke (edit: at it's current price).

Just now, gennataos said:

Regen was never my playstyle, but I've tried R2-D2/Supernatural Luke, which I'm sure Rebel-identifying players will flock towards...do not like. He costs too much to bug out for a couple turns and not contribute to the fight. I imagine there will be good R2-D2 Luke players, but that's not my bag. I'm not even convinced Supernatural is the correct call for Luke.

I'm not even convinced if any upgrades are correct for Luke. Just throw down a naked Luke and see what happens.

1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

Supernatural is the correct luke (edit: at it's current price).

Probably.

I wonder if some portion of my modest X-wing success is due to caring that things die less than my opponent. I'm half convinced that the old double HLC Defenders were good because I didn't mind losing a third of my squad's hit points on the joust, but my opponents did not respond well to two 4-hit attacks on their main ship on the first engagement.

21 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Probably.

Sense might be worth a look to help with turrets that want to rotate or low ps stuff that wants to block or shoot. Only other real options are nothing or instinctive aim to gaurantee the proton (though only half modifying one seems wasted)

1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

Sense might be worth a look to help with turrets that want to rotate or low ps stuff that wants to block. Only other real options are nothing or instinctive aim to gaurantee the proton (though only half modifying one seems wasted)

I've looked at Sense for a list with Luke and some low PS generics to inform their decisions, but it doesn't fit well. I'm not willing to dismiss anything until I've put it on the table myself, though. Like, I'm totally going to put R3/Proton Torp/Heighten Perception Luke on the table with R3/Proton Torp Wedge to punch the daylights out of some stuff. Then I'll promptly scrap it when a swarm or punishers suck up the alpha, then blow one of them up.