17 minutes ago, drjkel said:I'm sad that players are not getting the 2.0 they dreamed of, but rather reheated 1.0.
It would have been simpler and cheaper to just tack on the variable points app to 1.0, keeping everything the same and investing efforts into balancing through cost.
I'm not sure I agree with that sentiment. We have a few lingering upgrades/pilots, but overall, the game is vastly overhauled.
1 minute ago, LagJanson said:Curious... hypothetical point costing here... but if Dash with Luke Gunner and Outrider plus some EPT like expert handling costed 150 points out of 200 (3/4s the list) will this be ok? I have no concept or correctness or reason for this number... Just seeing what people think.
I *think* so?
Like, dash likely can't solo a list from beginning to finish - he needs a good/distracting wingman, right? the more he costs for shenanigans, the more the wingman suffers.
Like, current dash basically only has super regen optics poe; or stupid bombing, regenning Miranda... otherwise, he's not actually completely competitive.
(or stupid, TLT, bombing, harpooning nym - either way, the wingman does amazing amounts of stupid on their own to supplement Dash).
My #hype just went from rock hard to flaccid...
The Ghost costing 3/4 of a list didn't stop it from being absolutely awful to play against, making the 2400/Outrider cost an obscene amount won't stop them from being awful to play against either. I have no doubt there will be counterplay, but they're counters at the list building stage not on the table. I feel like we're headed back to the situation of there being an ultra simple to fly list that you have to build around or your list simply isn't viable.
The 2400 might have been OK with 3 attack or a donut hole, at 4 with all the other goodies on top... it's 1.0 power creep all over again. Fine, they can adjust the cost but it still feels wrong for a freighter to outgun every other ship in the game by a wide margin
The moment someone fully spoils the Imperial Conversion kit ill fire the Hype Train back up.
I think what we have learned today is that people are still terrified of Rebels being good.
Edited by Boom Owl10 minutes ago, Makaze said:My #hype just went from rock hard to flaccid...
The Ghost costing 3/4 of a list didn't stop it from being absolutely awful to play against, making the 2400/Outrider cost an obscene amount won't stop them from being awful to play against either. I have no doubt there will be counterplay, but they're counters at the list building stage not on the table. I feel like we're headed back to the situation of there being an ultra simple to fly list that you have to build around or your list simply isn't viable.
The 2400 might have been OK with 3 attack or a donut hole, at 4 with all the other goodies on top... it's 1.0 power creep all over again. Fine, they can adjust the cost but it still feels wrong for a freighter to outgun every other ship in the game by a wide margin
Yeah, that's a little terrifying. What does 2.0 Dash look like paired up with a cheap Shitapeade like Rau coordinating at I6?
12 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:I *think* so?
Like, dash likely can't solo a list from beginning to finish - he needs a good/distracting wingman, right? the more he costs for shenanigans, the more the wingman suffers.
Like, current dash basically only has super regen optics poe; or stupid bombing, regenning Miranda... otherwise, he's not actually completely competitive.
(or stupid, TLT, bombing, harpooning nym - either way, the wingman does amazing amounts of stupid on their own to supplement Dash).
It just looks like Dash is going to drive PS really hard. Like he does now. I'm no longer thoroughly convinced the developers believe and/or understand their stated goals for 2.0, which is certainly taking a bit of the shine off.
I expect t his wingman will be Luke or Wedge. Wedge will be the "I brought I6 in case you thought you could outmaneuver me" choice. Luke will be the "I also throw 4 double modded dice and take forever to kill" choice. I'd be pleasantly surprised if Dash and a solid build of one of those two didn't fit in a list.
5 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:The moment someone fully spoils the Imperial Conversion kit ill fire the Hype Train back up.
I think what we have learned today is that people are still terrified of Rebels being good.
The silver linings from this reveal is that I can put Lone Wolf on a Defender for even more defense or some reasonably easy offensive mods. I can still get that HLC with Focus and a reroll if I line the shot up. Juke still being a thing is good for Defenders as well.
Also, I don't think most people are afraid of Rebels being good, they're afraid of Fat Turrets still being the best and most efficient type of ship for the faction.
Edited by Biophysical3 minutes ago, Biophysical said:The silver linings from this reveal is that I can put Lone Wolf on a Defender for even more defense or some reasonably easy offensive mods. I can still get that HLC with Focus and a reroll if I line the shot up. Juke still being a thing is good for Defenders as well.
Right because Defenders arent basically turrets.
*Sarcasm
Edited by Boom Owl8 minutes ago, Biophysical said:It just looks like Dash is going to drive PS really hard. Like he does now. I'm no longer thoroughly convinced the developers believe and/or understand their stated goals for 2.0, which is certainly taking a bit of the shine off.
I expect t his wingman will be Luke or Wedge. Wedge will be the "I brought I6 in case you thought you could outmaneuver me" choice. Luke will be the "I also throw 4 double modded dice and take forever to kill" choice. I'd be pleasantly surprised if Dash and a solid build of one of those two didn't fit in a list.
Yeah, my biggest disappointment here isn't the technical aspects, any card can be balanced if you bludgeon it with enough UP UP UP. It's that they looked at those cards and said to themselves "Yeah, that looks totally fine and what we want out of X-Wing 2.0". No, no it doesn't and no it isn't
If I had to take a guess I'd say Wedge will fit, kitted out Luke won't
Edited by Makaze1 minute ago, Biophysical said:It just looks like Dash is going to drive PS really hard. Like he does now. I'm no longer thoroughly convinced the developers believe and/or understand their stated goals for 2.0, which is certainly taking a bit of the shine off.
I expect t his wingman will be Luke or Wedge. Wedge will be the "I brought I6 in case you thought you could outmaneuver me" choice. Luke will be the "I also throw 4 double modded dice and take forever to kill" choice. I'd be pleasantly surprised if Dash and a solid build of one of those two didn't fit in a list.
Good news - if it's luke wingman, then no Luke gunner.
Those few upgrades/pilots make me nervous, but since the overwhelming number of upgrades/pilots are in-line with their stated goals, I think we're good.
Like, if those things dominate, they could very easily crazy UP UP UP, or outright competitively ban those pilots/cards.
To elaborate, from what we see:
Like, I do think they want a different game, given we only see a limited number of issue cards.
So far I'm curious why they leave in 4 dice attacks for the rebels but took it away from the Phantom. I'm hoping for a title or something....
- I hope the YT2400 does not have a gunner slot. That seems silly. but still pairing 2.0 Dash without a crew and Luke T65 is going to be close enough to Dash/Poe today that I'm thinking Plot Armor will be in full effect....again.
- HWK-290's seem to be vastly improved and pretty awesome. If they keep the same upgrade bar and the title/base chassis points changes translate to a similar cost (dorsal/moldy crow Jan is 31 points. So a 62 point HWK base?) it could be very very deadly. I plan on doing Squad Leader/white coordinate crew, and engine upgrade for all the options.
- token stacking does not appear to be as rare as they originally suspected. With Co-ordinate it will be easy to stack at least one target. E-Wings and Defenders will be able to stack easily. Dash is stupid. Braylen in the B-Wing will essentially get full mods.
-Fenn is unchanged.
- missiles seem as deadly as ever?
- There are going to be some fun rebel combos, but most of them are available in 1.0
- defense seems to be nerfed a lot more than offense.
- we need to see the app. We might be going doing the rabbit hole of "omg games broken" hyperbole before we even know what combos we can actually use
2 hours ago, Biophysical said:The more I say "adjustable points" the more it feels like a rote religious expression and less like something that is actually going to be exercised.
Conversely, we're currently knee jerking to numbers we dont even know. That said **** this dash what the ****
1 minute ago, Wiredin said:- missiles seem as deadly as ever?
The unironic "Git Gud at counting to 11, a core mechanic of the game" is coming for people, and they can't try and hide behind crazy defense stacking.
(muh formations!).
2 minutes ago, Wiredin said:- token stacking does not appear to be as rare as they originally suspected. With Co-ordinate it will be easy to stack at least one target. E-Wings and Defenders will be able to stack easily. Dash is stupid. Braylen in the B-Wing will essentially get full mods.
I'm not sure I would say that as a broad statement. Defenders: yes.
As for coordinating... the coordinating ship won't have those mods, so we can all the "im going to stack this ship" coming".
A B-Wing getting rerolls is nice, but the defensive rerolls is effectively non-existent (1 agility).
Dash stupid.
The beauty of this all is even if Dash IS fine, he is still going up in price because no one can control themselves when they see something they perceive as broken, so he will be flown about a million and one times to the point everyone will call for a cost increase because he’s everywhere.
Fine. Everything’s fine.
1 minute ago, Kdubb said:The beauty of this all is even if Dash IS fine, he is still going up in price because no one can control themselves when they see something they perceive as broken, so he will be flown about a million and one times to the point everyone will call for a cost increase because he’s everywhere.
Fine. Everything’s fine.
And in the meantime, pack your seismic charges.
But all in all, Dash better be in the next Krayt 2.0 vassal cast. I like Bios idea of a decked out Dash and maybe a lighter Luke or Wedge to see how stupid that is. We will need to determine how Dash interacts with obstacles as there is a little discussion there as to if he can perform actions on obstacles or not.
Just now, Kdubb said:But all in all, Dash better be in the next Krayt 2.0 vassal cast. I like Bios idea of a decked out Dash and maybe a lighter Luke or Wedge to see how stupid that is. We will need to determine how Dash interacts with obstacles as there is a little discussion there as to if he can perform actions on obstacles or not.
The great VASSAL die roll will decide dash's rules fate
10 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:The unironic "Git Gud at counting to 11, a core mechanic of the game" is coming for people, and they can't try and hide behind crazy defense stacking.
(muh formations!).
I'm not sure I would say that as a broad statement. Defenders: yes.
As for coordinating... the coordinating ship won't have those mods, so we can all the "im going to stack this ship" coming".
A B-Wing getting rerolls is nice, but the defensive rerolls is effectively non-existent (1 agility).
Dash stupid.
yea, but Fenn does fine without the mods since he can shut down other mods, and he is going be just as effective in 2.0 due to the very limited number of passive mods (Juke/Predator/Crackshot/Han pilot) so with him and Wedge, giving Wedge the ability to Focus/Lock you are going to be faced with a pretty nasty attacker. Add on a third ship (lets go with Arvel or Jake with Juke and prockets for funzies) and you can still push through a silly amount of damage.
Just now, Wiredin said:yea, but Fenn does fine without the mods since he can shut down other mods, and he is going be just as effective in 2.0 due to the very limited number of passive mods (Juke/Predator/Crackshot/Han pilot) so with him and Wedge, giving Wedge the ability to Focus/Lock you are going to be faced with a pretty nasty attacker. Add on a third ship (lets go with Arvel or Jake with Juke and prockets for funzies) and you can still push through a silly amount of damage.
Does Fenn stop force? I can't see the cards on this computer.
That might be enough to keep him in check - but more importantly, as the average ship count goes up, Fenn gets worse. And without those passive dice mods, things like Dash struggle vs Fenn which sounds great to me. Fenn in this environment seems more like Omega Leader and less like Fenn/Low/Miranda Fenn.
Edited by Brunas4 minutes ago, Brunas said:Does Fenn stop force? I can't see the cards on this computer.
Yes, he prevents you from spending tokens to modify your dice, no color mentioned
26 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:Good news - if it's luke wingman, then no Luke gunner.
Those few upgrades/pilots make me nervous, but since the overwhelming number of upgrades/pilots are in-line with their stated goals, I think we're good.
Like, if those things dominate, they could very easily crazy UP UP UP, or outright competitively ban those pilots/cards.
To elaborate, from what we see:
- there's no cluster mines
- no R3-A2
- limited regen
- No harpoon/TLT
- literally only see 2 turrets: dorsal and ion
- All bombs in system phase (no "adv slamming" people)
- baseline no 360 turret (like I said above, potential luke gunner ban, and we're all back to normal turrets)
- No ability (as seen) to add boost to things
- things have limits
- Lonewolf, 3po, afterburners
- Conner and prox say you can't even add more charges (no reload)
Like, I do think they want a different game, given we only see a limited number of issue cards.
Haha, yeah Gunner Luke invalidates Pilot Luke.
It's definitely better than 1.0, no question, there's just these flagrant standouts that are very confusing.
15 minutes ago, Kdubb said:But all in all, Dash better be in the next Krayt 2.0 vassal cast. I like Bios idea of a decked out Dash and maybe a lighter Luke or Wedge to see how stupid that is. We will need to determine how Dash interacts with obstacles as there is a little discussion there as to if he can perform actions on obstacles or not.
Of course you can perform actions on obstacles. Ghosts have been boosting off of rocks for awhile now.
6 minutes ago, Brunas said:Does Fenn stop force? I can't see the cards on this computer.
That might be enough to keep him in check - but more importantly, as the average ship count goes up, Fenn gets worse. And without those passive dice mods, things like Dash struggle vs Fenn which sounds great to me. Fenn in this environment seems more like Omega Leader and less like Fenn/Low/Miranda Fenn.
I agree. Fenn does shut down force. I do agree, the environment with swarms coming back does limit Fenn and will burn Fenn down very quickly.
Evry game i face Dash
i just breath deeply and think
This is fine!
to qoute the supream leader
" I want all the weapons we have to fire on that man ( In this case SHIP")"!!!
17 minutes ago, Kdubb said:But all in all, Dash better be in the next Krayt 2.0 vassal cast. I like Bios idea of a decked out Dash and maybe a lighter Luke or Wedge to see how stupid that is. We will need to determine how Dash interacts with obstacles as there is a little discussion there as to if he can perform actions on obstacles or not.
So here's where Dash gets a subtle nerf.
In 1.0 if you thought you might clip a rock during a Barrel Roll you "turned off" Dash. Attempted the BR and if it wasn't able to clear you just rolled it back and did a different action.
In 2.0 Dash is "always on". If you BR and you hit a rock. You are on that rock. No shooty for you this round. And if the ruling is different where it's ruled that you can't BR onto a rock, then Dash is also limited in that if he tries to BR and can't, then he loses his action that turn. If you bring big asteroids and clump them together in the middle like you would a swarm you give Dash a little more trouble in 2.0 than he had in 1.0. Of course now that damned Outrider title punishes you for forcing him into obstacle fields. How rude.
