8 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I suspect some of the salt is actually disguised terror at nerfed turrets and regen.

I mean that - people will have a hard time saying that out loud, and you can save face by saying it's expensive.

Unfortunately, my hypothesis is un-investigateable, and unproveable...

...

...

...so I'm right.

It's just one anecdote (though I realize there are some to think that redefines a meta), but we had a player offer up his collection within a couple days after 2.0 was announced because he only liked flying high PS turrets and was immediately upset at the change.

1 minute ago, AlexW said:

It's just one anecdote (though I realize there are some to think that redefines a meta), but we had a player offer up his collection within a couple days after 2.0 was announced because he only liked flying high PS turrets and was immediately upset at the change.

What's actually sad is that, he'll probably be back when he sees the game isn't actually on fire and people are having fun. Which means he might end up wasting $.

:(

I'll sum it up for you -

"As someone who almost graduated high school I have intimate and unimpeachable knowledge of the print industry and Chinese manufacturing both specifically and as a holistic system. Therefore I have calculated that FFG's manufacturing costs for each conversion kit is approximately $0.37, give or take a few 1/10ths of a penny obviously. After crypto currency volatility, distribution, and tax rebates that means they will make a profit of approximately $59.63 on each kit sold. Since I play the only one true X-Wing, Epic, my collection consists of 37 TIE Bombers and a Raider (which they don't even support for 2.0 yet, but I'm sure the conversion kit for that will be over $100, thanks for nothing FFG!). Between the $40 for a new, and what should be a completely unnecessary, core set and the 13 conversion kits that will run me over $690. Based on my derivations this is approximately 6000% more than I paid for my entire collection!

Now as you can imagine due to my above qualifications I am a sovereign citizen of significant wealth and taste. However I will be forced, at gunpoint, to sell my smart phone in order to cover costs of this magnitude. Which will, as a result of FFGs technocratic jackboot, make it entirely impossible for me to play 2.0. Therefore I will continue playing and endlessly complaining about 1.0. Any of you that don't do the same are sheeple, of the highest sheepitude, prostrate before your corporate masters!"

3 minutes ago, AlexW said:

It's just one anecdote (though I realize there are some to think that redefines a meta), but we had a player offer up his collection within a couple days after 2.0 was announced because he only liked flying high PS turrets and was immediately upset at the change.

Yeah, they'll still exist, just in a different form. It seemed crazy to us, too.

2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I'll sum it up for you -

"As someone who almost graduated high school I have intimate and unimpeachable knowledge of the print industry and Chinese manufacturing both specifically and as a holistic system. Therefore I have calculated that FFG's manufacturing costs for each conversion kit is approximately $0.37, give or take a few 1/10ths of a penny obviously. After crypto currency volatility, distribution, and tax rebates that means they will make a profit of approximately $59.63 on each kit sold. Since I play the only one true X-Wing, Epic, my collection consists of 37 TIE Bombers and a Raider (which they don't even support for 2.0 yet, but I'm sure the conversion kit for that will be over $100, thanks for nothing FFG!). Between the $40 for a new, and what should be a completely unnecessary, core set and the 13 conversion kits that will run me over $690. Based on my derivations this is approximately 6000% more than I paid for my entire collection!

Now as you can imagine due to my above qualifications I am a sovereign citizen of significant wealth and taste. However I will be forced, at gunpoint, to sell my smart phone in order to cover costs of this magnitude. Which will, as a result of FFGs technocratic jackboot, make it entirely impossible for me to play 2.0. Therefore I will continue playing and endlessly complaining about 1.0. Any of you that don't do the same are sheeple, of the highest sheepitude, prostrate before your corporate masters!"

8 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

the more casual players that don't see a problem with the meta, if it's because they play fair stuff, won't notice a change other than cleaner game play and new stuff.

The others... well, they'll actually probably see they were worse than they thought. Like Defender players post x7 nerf.

Really, we don't see much "world" meta play locally unless someone specifically asks someone else to run it to test against it. Most regulars are very keyed in on the meta, but we're a bunch of hipsters, loyal to what we like to play. Plus we're fairly self-policing (shaming).

I'd imagine if more meta was played locally, opinions might be different. If we were rife with 100 point Miranda/Ghost-Fenn/Nym-Miranda, we'd probably have run people out of the game well before the 2.0 announcement.

I figured I'd throw in a couple examples of our self-policing:

• We had a keyed-in local prepping for Adepticon, trying out Ghost/Fenn. He was so disgusted by its efficiency, he purposefully waved off and ended up flying some jank he liked.
• We have a non-keyed-in local who is really good, makes original, creative, powerful lists. He'd been running triple Kimos and was very confident with them, maybe to the point of hubris. @abell and I took turns showing him pre-nerf Nym/Miranda, which he didn't believe in. After getting tabled hard by each of us, he believed. @abell19 and I never ran it again.

48 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

A lot of players will have to actually learn how to play X-wing again, and that probably does scare them.

Or learn how to play in the first place.

19 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I figured I'd throw in a couple examples of our self-policing:

• We had a keyed-in local prepping for Adepticon, trying out Ghost/Fenn. He was so disgusted by its efficiency, he purposefully waved off and ended up flying some jank he liked.
• We have a non-keyed-in local who is really good, makes original, creative, powerful lists. He'd been running triple Kimos and was very confident with them, maybe to the point of hubris. @abell and I took turns showing him pre-nerf Nym/Miranda, which he didn't believe in. After getting tabled hard by each of us, he believed. @abell19 and I never ran it again.

If they had not emergency FAQ'd that abhorrent trajectory + genius combo it *WOULD* have been the death of the game. People would simply stop playing. I'm in a weird spot in that I have a pretty small local scene, but within it I've got 3 guys that are/have been/will be ranked in Tim Hilton's national rankings. Even their "fun" lists are still flown very well. Gotta bring some power lists if you want to squeak out some wins.

53 minutes ago, AlexW said:

It's just one anecdote (though I realize there are some to think that redefines a meta), but we had a player offer up his collection within a couple days after 2.0 was announced because he only liked flying high PS turrets and was immediately upset at the change.

Knee jerk reactions are always emotion based, always regrettable.

51 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

What's actually sad is that, he'll probably be back when he sees the game isn't actually on fire and people are having fun. Which means he might end up wasting $.

This will occur, to be sure. Emotional decisions, again, always costs you money:

Hot chick? This will create emotional reaction. This will cost you irrational money.

Fast car/bike? This will create emotional reaction. This will cost you irrational money.

Great mind altering beverage/substance? This will create emotional reaction. This will cost you irrational money.

Loving a hobby and learning it will be changing? This will create emotional reaction. This will cost you irrational money.

If we could learn, to never make decisions with emotional tools, we'd all be better for it.

The funny thing is that High PS Turrents will probably be fine. At least Han+Gunner(Luke) looks strong and with half points on everything a big base ship is not as big of a disadvantage to a small ship points locker.

1 hour ago, AlexW said:

he only liked flying high PS turrets and was immediately upset at the change.

Fear not turret token tank players.

Im not 100% convinced that Fat Turrets won't exist in some form or another in 2.0.

I would be very surprised if there are not a # of competitive lists that Team Turret Wing can continue to leverage and enjoy in basically the same way.

Just now, Boom Owl said:

Im not 100% convinced that Fat Turrets won't exist in some form or another in 2.0.

I would be very surprised if there are not a # of competitive lists that Team Turret Wing can continue to leverage and enjoy in basically the same way.

look at the new han and luke interaction. If there is a defensive stacking ability that can be added to that ship, I think we got vintage fat han meta!

2 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

look at the new han and luke interaction. If there is a defensive stacking ability that can be added to that ship, I think we got vintage fat han meta!

In the end the variable pt cost will save us.

5 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

look at the new han and luke interaction. If there is a defensive stacking ability that can be added to that ship, I think we got vintage fat han meta!

Yup, competitively plump Han will be the go-to for pancake lovers.

18 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

In the end the variable pt cost will save us.

on that note... I really want them to release the squad builder ASAP. like holy crap... gimmie gimmie gimmie

I haven't even looked at v1.0 squad building since announcement. heck my bag hasn't had a list change in over a month.

30 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Fear not turret token tank players.

Im not 100% convinced that Fat Turrets won't exist in some form or another in 2.0.

I would be very surprised if there are not a # of competitive lists that Team Turret Wing can continue to leverage and enjoy in basically the same way.

29 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

look at the new han and luke interaction. If there is a defensive stacking ability that can be added to that ship, I think we got vintage fat han meta!

23 minutes ago, viedit said:

Yup, competitively plump Han will be the go-to for pancake lovers.

2 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

The others... well, they'll actually probably see they were worse than they thought. Like Defender players post x7 nerf.

Some of us were playing defenders pre-x7, loved x7 but quickly moved to hunting them when they were everywhere because mirror matches were not fun, and love that they're back to hipster status.

Others, like my son, just forgot to get the memo about not flying Defenders at any time since we first got our hands on one

My main salt with 2e is that we'd need 2 core sets for both of us to start playing, just in damage decks (at which point I'd actually be hoping the two younger brothers don't want to start). Combined with our above-noted love for defenders not being sufficiently rewarded in the conversion pack, it makes 2e not seem like an urgent need in our household. We almost never fly turrets, bombs, or meta cancer at home to begin with, we're in it for to the death dogfighting. Kylo/Soontir v Vader/Sabacc/Inquisitor was a ridiculously fun match, though skill difference really shows in an arc-dodging death match where the better player has the PS advantage on everything but Vader...

The incessant local salt makes the competitive scene not seem worth trying to push through. "Git gud" is something I've wanted to say to so many people over the last few years... I'm mulling over trying to go to all the store champs this summer with meta cancer out of spite.

1 minute ago, drjkel said:

Some of us were playing defenders pre-x7, loved x7 but quickly moved to hunting them when they were everywhere because mirror matches were not fun, and love that they're back to hipster status.

Others, like my son, just forgot to get the memo about not flying Defenders at any time since we first got our hands on one

Oh, Defenders are still quite good - I meant more the people that magically got better when x7 came out, then magically got worse when it was nerfed - because it didn't reward good manuevering.

2 minutes ago, drjkel said:

My main salt with 2e is that we'd need 2 core sets for both of us to start playing, just in damage decks (at which point I'd actually be hoping the two younger brothers don't want to start). Combined with our above-noted love for defenders not being sufficiently rewarded in the conversion pack, it makes 2e not seem like an urgent need in our household.

Hey, if you pre-order the core, you get that limited edition damage deck, which would mean you'd have two decks: the limited edition + the one inside the core, if that helps any? I only just saw the pre-order bonus thing yesterday, so I think it slipped through the cracks during the announcement.

3 minutes ago, drjkel said:

My main salt with 2e is that we'd need 2 core sets for both of us to start playing, just in damage decks (at which point I'd actually be hoping the two younger brothers don't want to start).

Why not see if your store can do the pre-order for the additional damage decks? One core for all? That's what I'm attempting so that I have a spare for my wife. If it doesn't work, I have my receipt clearly marked for 2.0 core stuck on the wall to pester FFG with...

6 minutes ago, drjkel said:

My main salt with 2e is that we'd need 2 core sets for both of us to start playing, just in damage decks

If you preorder the core set you get an extra T-65 themed damage deck. Doesn't help with the local salt problem at all but you should be able to play just fine between the two of you with a single core set

Also, I don't think you'll have any trouble finding individual defenders. I don't remember if there's 2 or 3 in there, but I know a lot of people will be buying second kits for things and have a LOT of extras.

Unless the defenders are priced so you can’t run three in a list.

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

Also, I don't think you'll have any trouble finding individual defenders. I don't remember if there's 2 or 3 in there, but I know a lot of people will be buying second kits for things and have a LOT of extras.

there's 2, but right - as soon as someone needs a 2nd conversion, they'll likely have an extra defender (now they have 4), to maybe buy off of them.

7 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Also, I don't think you'll have any trouble finding individual defenders. I don't remember if there's 2 or 3 in there, but I know a lot of people will be buying second kits for things and have a LOT of extras.

5 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

there's 2, but right - as soon as someone needs a 2nd conversion, they'll likely have an extra defender (now they have 4), to maybe buy off of them.

Psh, I have 6 defenders, I gotta buy 3 conversion kits so I can run all 6 in epic someday, I cant sell those off!!!

(PS: I don't plan to buy more than 1 imperial conversion kit. And no, I didn't actually buy 6 defenders, I got 2 from a grab bag)