1 hour ago, mdl0114 said:

Yep, agreed. The Euro meta beating US meta thing is not a great narrative because the meta encompasses results all over the world, brobots are not meta anywhere, and most of the players, including the Europeans who made the cut, were running those various meta staples. A superbly flown list that isn’t meta anywhere, expertly piloted by a kid from the UK, was the winner here. That’s the real narrative.

^

My last post was a little more antagonistic that I intended. I just wanted credit to go to Sim for flying so well, not focusing on the list. Apologies to anyone who too offense.

29 minutes ago, gennataos said:

My last post was a little more antagonistic that I intended. I just wanted credit to go to Sim for flying so well, not focusing on the list. Apologies to anyone who too offense.

I hope that you don't think I was attacking Sim. I played against him yesterday and I saw how skilled he was. I think his list is the most NPE I've ever had in this game, but it doesn't take away from his accomplishment.

Yeah, those brobots were expertly flown. There was a good amount of luck that went into that final match (both QD's attacks rolling trash and the brobots rolling excellent natural defense), but to take that list to the final table is really hard to do. No mistakes made in any plays I saw.

I think people need to stop acting like brobots are some sort of wholesome list-hipster thing though.

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

My last post was a little more antagonistic that I intended. I just wanted credit to go to Sim for flying so well, not focusing on the list. Apologies to anyone who too offense.

Oh no, it was fair. I for one was aggressive against the list (because I think Ion is one of the biggest NPEs in the game, and people don't seem to realize how bad it is yet), and didn't take enough time to credit the player. I see it as similar to RAClo, in that the skill needed at the beginning is super high but then it drops like a rock over time. Sure, its easy to win the late game, but the early game is brutally difficult (to clarify, late game is more than 50% of the opponents list gone in my mind). Having played two ion TIE/Ds to mediocrity, I get how hard it is to win with, and mad respect to him for doing it. I just don't think control bots is as wholesome as people say, and has more of the typical NPEs than people realize on first glance.

1 minute ago, Do I need a Username said:

...I get how hard it is to win with, and mad respect to him for doing it. I just don't think control bots is as wholesome as people say, and has more of the typical NPEs than people realize on first glance.

Also, realized I need to do more clarification. In my mind, and NPE isn't something that wins a lot, although a lot of those may be NPEs, it is something that removes decisions. Ion cannon bots do that VERY well, when someone good enough to use them is playing them, hence the NPE designation. They may not be good with a new player, but you probably won't have fun playing against it.

I mean, on one of the 186th Podcasts Jasper had a talk about wrestling back and forth over how much guilt he feels about his list being such a potential NPE for his opponents. I feel like that's a pretty baked in factor in any list that has the word 'control' in its name, almost by definition.

3 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:

I feel like that's a pretty baked in factor in any list that has the word 'control' in its name, almost by definition.

So much this. I don't begrudge anyone who plays this in tournaments, but if you show up to a casual night and a play a new player with a control list, you are the worst. It isn't a game, because the win state for one list is their opponent not getting to play the game.

In other X-Wing news,

I love how many people are posting about collections that had to cost them over $3000 to get in the first place, and complaining about how many conversion kits they'll have to buy.

As if all the people who didn't blow a whole ton of money out of their *** collecting at least three of everything would just *love* to pay extra money for a whole bunch of extra cards and then have to find a way to get rid of said cards because FFG made the conversion kit accommodate that one guy who decided he needed a third Decimator.

3 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

As if all the people who didn't blow a whole ton of money out of their *** collecting at least three of everything would just *love* to pay extra money for a whole bunch of extra cards and then have to find a way to get rid of said cards because FFG made the conversion kit accommodate that one guy who decided he needed a third Decimator.

As a verified member of the third-decimator club, I resent the implications of this comment. Bribery was not involved.

Just now, Do I need a Username said:

As a verified member of the third-decimator club, I resent the implications of this comment. Bribery was not involved.

I mean, it's fine to buy more ships. I just don't think you should expect FFG to just give you all the cards you need for free. If you seriously want to fly all three Decimators, that'll have to be in Epic most likely and I assume you'll be ok paying an extra $50 bucks for a second kit then.

If they'd made the conversion kits accommodate, say, four of each small ship, eight of the really cheap small ships, and three or four of each large ships, they'd have needed to increase the price, which isn't fair to people who have normal-sized collections.

(disclaimer: I will probably end up buying two of each conversion as well. I don't really mind - the price still seems fair to me, especially since they didn't "owe" us anything. Conversion kits are a gift, don't look a gift horse in the mouth).

In fairness, the "conversion kits too pricey" reason for ragequitting is probably better than the "I miss the small upgrade cards!" reason.

The 3 Decimators thing was a typo, it was meant to be 3 Gunboats and 2 Decimators.

But yeah. Acting like it's absolutely essential to be able to put any combination of your ships (and bear in mind some people have admitted to having over 100 points of every ship) is just utterly ludicrous. This argument of "Well, they're unfairly restricting my list building choices" is insane as well. Each faction kit comes with upgrades for more than 30 ships. I can guarantee that even the most hardened, indecisive, has to change list every game idiot won't have burned through all of the list combinations made possible by that number of ships.

So given my Phantom Menace levels of excitement for 2.0 I am thinking the next few months may be an appropriate/practical time to run a semi-restrictive alt format on local game nights that approximates the "2.0 Skillset". Something to help detox.

Trying to avoid a full proxy based on incomplete info since thats sorta pointless until we have the app but any simple ideas that could start forcing something in the same ballpark as the type of decison making that the "real" xwing I have never played might require?

Maybe just play wave 1-2?

1 minute ago, Keios said:

The 3 Decimators thing was a typo, it was meant to be 3 Gunboats and 2 Decimators.

But yeah. Acting like it's absolutely essential to be able to put any combination of your ships (and bear in mind some people have admitted to having over 100 points of every ship) is just utterly ludicrous. This argument of "Well, they're unfairly restricting my list building choices" is insane as well. Each faction kit comes with upgrades for more than 30 ships. I can guarantee that even the most hardened, indecisive, has to change list every game idiot won't have burned through all of the list combinations made possible by that number of ships.

Yeah, I wasn't talking about that typo. To avoid confusion, I probably should've picked another large ship that people have a ridiculous number of. After Saw's I'll have 4 U-Wings, so I'll be getting multiple Rebel kits as a result.

I do think they could've picked the ships in there better. I think they should've made it so that if you buy two of each, you get the stuff to upgrade a full 100 point swarm of each ship. Which is possible as is, but leaves a ton of spares (I only have 2 Ghosts, I won't possibly need all four sets of Ghost cards I'll end up having). They probably could've shaved the costs down to $40 by optimizing those ratios of ships a little better. As is I think it's fine though. I assume they had some people who know a lot more about market analysis and selling stuff than I do designing these things.

3 minutes ago, Keios said:

The 3 Decimators thing was a typo, it was meant to be 3 Gunboats and 2 Decimators.

But yeah. Acting like it's absolutely essential to be able to put any combination of your ships (and bear in mind some people have admitted to having over 100 points of every ship) is just utterly ludicrous. This argument of "Well, they're unfairly restricting my list building choices" is insane as well. Each faction kit comes with upgrades for more than 30 ships. I can guarantee that even the most hardened, indecisive, has to change list every game idiot won't have burned through all of the list combinations made possible by that number of ships.

Being in college, I have played the same three lists (technically four, but wholesome squadron doesn't count) all year. In 2.0, I can play one of the lists out of the box (two defenders), wait for the FO kit to arrive to play another (Kylo+QD) and then modify the final one slightly to continue to play it (BBArcgressive). In fact, my one regret with 2.0 is that it isn't out during the summer so I can't spend time building stupid stuff to play at casual night. Instead, I have to settle on one or two things to play for a longer duration. BOO FFG, RELEASE 2.0 SOONER (don't actually, playtest is probably important.)

Other news, we're hot right now.

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

So given my Phantom Menace levels of excitement for 2.0 I am thinking the next few months may be an appropriate/practical time to run a semi-restrictive alt format on local game nights that approximates the "2.0 Skillset". Something to help detox.

Trying to avoid a full proxy based on incomplete info since thats sorta pointless until we have the app but any simple ideas that could start forcing something in the same ballpark as the type of decison making that the "real" xwing I have never played might require?

Maybe just play wave 1-2?

Yesterday while @Do I need a Username, @Janson, @Kaptin Krunch and I were watching Worlds and talking about how lame 1.0 is, I suggested that I might just end up buying four Reapers so that we can play 2.0.

Once Saw's is released, the cards, cardboard, and dials for U-Wings, X-Wings, and Reapers will all be released into the wild, and I'm sure we can find costs we agree on!

we'll show FFG that we're so excited for 2.0 that we're playing it before they release the core!!!

3 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

Other news, we're hot right now.

Obligatory "I agree" so that the tag stays there.

5 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

Being in college, I have played the same three lists (technically four, but wholesome squadron doesn't count) all year. In 2.0, I can play one of the lists out of the box (two defenders), wait for the FO kit to arrive to play another (Kylo+QD) and then modify the final one slightly to continue to play it (BBArcgressive). In fact, my one regret with 2.0 is that it isn't out during the summer so I can't spend time building stupid stuff to play at casual night. Instead, I have to settle on one or two things to play for a longer duration. BOO FFG, RELEASE 2.0 SOONER (don't actually, playtest is probably important.)

I might be going to Gencon. If I do, I'll pick up some stuff for you.

3 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Yesterday while @Do I need a Username, @Janson, @Kaptin Krunch and I were watching Worlds and talking about how lame 1.0 is, I suggested that I might just end up buying four Reapers so that we can play 2.0.

Once Saw's is released, the cards, cardboard, and dials for U-Wings, X-Wings, and Reapers will all be released into the wild, and I'm sure we can find costs we agree on!

we'll show FFG that we're so excited for 2.0 that we're playing it before they release the core!!!

PLANNING! I have 2 reapers on order, so you can borrow them if need be. I plan on running 2U2X almost exclusively.

although, watch as they don't include medium bases in the packs.

Just now, Kieransi said:

I might be going to Gencon. If I do, I'll pick up some stuff for you.

nah, I'll just borrow yours. I'm ordering all mine from my FLGS.

5 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

Have we called the European meta ‘small’? Who actually said that (I believe someone said it).

thw European meta is literally about half of the data points I use from juggler though. It’s defined in the presentation.

I'm not sure where the whole "tiny european meta" originates, but it's something someone said back in 2016 or something I think. I thought it was from the Krayts, but if you say it wasn't, probably it was from another podcast

But you can't negate even you guys were pretty dismissive of Europe in general. I'm pretty sure it was on Krayts podcast that someone (an Howard? I don't remember) was belittling the players attending last year European because "only in a field of bad players a Leebo Miranda could have won" or something like that.

I don't know if you shared it yourself, but there have been quite some examples of underestimation at best if not even contempt at worst in some american podcasts about European players over time. The fact that FFG stubbornly refuse to move Worlds from Roseville, Minnesota probably doesn't help either, if it isn't the biggest factor itself.

And by "meta", in this regard, I'm not meaning just the lists that get played (which, while similar, aren't actually the same. For example 100 points aces was more common in NA than EU), but the actual players and tournament of the region.

Anyway, #tinyeuropeanmeta is just a meme after all. Especially now that that no american won worlds for the last 3 editions despite being what, 80% of the field?

PS rereading this post I feel like it might sound more salty than I intended to be, it was just a funny banter. The only thing I'm salty about is Worlds been stuck in NA...

Just now, Do I need a Username said:

PLANNING! I have 2 reapers on order, so you can borrow them if need be. I plan on running 2U2X almost exclusively.

although, watch as they don't include medium bases in the packs.

nah, I'll just borrow yours. I'm ordering all mine from my FLGS.

I ordered all mine from the FLGS too. Maybe we'll sell the spares?

And I've got two of each pack from the new wave on order, so we should be able to build 4x Reaper, 4x X-Wing, or 4x U-Wing if we want.

4 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

But you can't negate even you guys were pretty dismissive of Europe in general. I'm pretty sure it was on Krayts podcast that someone (an Howard? I don't remember) was belittling the players attending last year European because "only in a field of bad players a Leebo Miranda could have won" or something like that.

If there's one thing I've observed in my dealings with the New Worlders it's that we tend to assume the old adage that they don't do irony.

This, I find, is a mistake. They do irony, but in a manner so blunt and brutal that we barely recognise it as such.