8 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

Wow, that really comes off as smug in the worst way and doesn't bode well. I hope whoever wrote this is just spouting off and this isn't how the developers feel?

I would have to assume/hope that it's coming from the marketing department whose explicit job is to say "hey come look at this game! It's great." The more dedicated fans of the game already know whats up and the kitchen table people and collectors don't care. I'm guessing the recap articles are targeting people who are considering getting into the game, or very early in their x wing live, say showing up at a small store and playing with 4-5 people who don't travel much.

1 hour ago, Do I need a Username said:

#Whatdata #Epsilonace #Whatmeta #Euros #Blanced #HWKS

More seriously though, this article is just going to contribute to the problem: Even if the EU meta is completely different, worlds uses the US meta, which is fat turrets, and fat turrets in large numbers are a problem. Also, Kylo with PTL+AT is close to a turret, and QD is not far either.

I tend to think it’s more of a narrative that the European meta is much more diverse, or at best, just a recent trend late in the competitive season this year. People forget that, as mentioned elsewhere, the early European meta looked a lot like the US meta and it seems that some players made a conscious choice to move away from it. Also, meanwhile in Poland, know for supposed diversity and going on at the same time the System Open, almost every list featured Nym in the top 8. And, sure Epislon Leader was part of the winning list but it’s not like QD and Kylo are unusual meta choices.

Just now, AlexW said:

I tend to think it’s more of a narrative that the European meta is much more diverse, or at best, just a recent trend this year. People forget that, as mentioned elsewhere, the early European meta looked a lot like the US meta and it seems that some players made a conscious choice to move away from it. Also, meanwhile in Poland, know for supposed diversity and going on at the same time the System Open, almost every list featured Nym in the top 8. And, sure Epislon Leader was part of the winning list but it’s not like QD and Kylo are unusual meta choices.

Right. It's cherry-picking.

As I posted in the other threads:

Poland System open - 38 lists in cut (331 players)

• 100 point aces - 6
• Rey+ -4
• Ghost Fenn -3
• NymRanda - 2

Copenhagen - 15 list in cut (137 players)

• 100 point ace - 1
• Rey - 2
• Ghost fenn - 5
• NymRanda - 2

Doesn't Kylo/QD/FO just confirm that Miranda specifically is a problem and that the majority of all metas are made up of lists that generally can't be beaten within 75 minutes or rather don't actually need to play for 75 minutes? Thought it was already fairly well established that the source of Kylo's power is that at 47 pts he outpoints Miranda specifically and only has to play half a game like most good things. Don't get me wrong I am happy it won! Its impressive as ****. But deep down I can't escape the feeling that it is just even more evidence that we are all of us still trapped playing Pre-Great Nerf Miranda/Biggs Wing. If I was going to try to cherry pick a small base arc list from the past 3 months I think it might be QD/Vader/Boat or 3BQD? A little more reliably visible in the Top 16 and at least a definite example of a very small sample set of lists that aren't built entirely around running to time or token stacking ( though the boats and Vader still do ). Or we could just go back to the ultimate anecdote and just celebrate Blair Bunke data points as is tradition.

28 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Or we could just go back to the ultimate anecdote and just celebrate Blair Bunke data points as is tradition.

Speaking of, can I get the KraytCoin over/under on number of lists with ship count 5 or greater making day two at worlds? I’m pretty sure 4-2 or better makes it (confident enough to not go back and look) and between three flights we should be lookin at ~180 lists, maybe?

I’m going to go with less than 6 out of 180 lists on day two have a ship count of 5 or more (or if my cut size is drastically off I’ll go with under 4%). Any takers?

Guys, what is happening?

I check the forum after a direly needed week and I read about a potential QD nerf? And some people falling for Poe‘s law (at best...) and unironically saying epsilon ace is strong? The superior fun of arced ships being questioned? GhostFenn is somehow still the boogeyman even though FennLowMiranda was as good two weeks (or longer) back? Why is there so much emphasis on a first place at a large event?

I am now looking forward to 5 Awings in hyperspace/hangarbay at the system open. Still not sure about my main squad, but I tried two sienar analysts and an ace and it was even fun to play against ghost fenn.

54 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Still not sure about my main squad, but I tried two sienar analysts and an ace and it was even fun to play against ghost fenn.

Out of curiosity, what is it about the two SAs that you (and @Biophysical) so enjoy? I've built the list(s), but I don't see what makes them so particularly compelling.

Just now, Jeff Wilder said:

Out of curiosity, what is it about the two SAs that you (and @Biophysical) so enjoy? I've built the list(s), but I don't see what makes them so particularly compelling.

I normally have massed identical generics as my jam, so here's my take on it-

With a constant focus (optics) and a constant TL, they have action efficiency. with 6 health, they have the ability to blank out and not immediately eat ****. The dial gives them ToT.

It's flexible, and the decision points you make with the list are frequent and actual decisions- It gives you agency to win on your own terms.

3 hours ago, AlexW said:

I tend to think it’s more of a narrative that the European meta is much more diverse, or at best, just a recent trend late in the competitive season this year. People forget that, as mentioned elsewhere, the early European meta looked a lot like the US meta and it seems that some players made a conscious choice to move away from it. Also, meanwhile in Poland, know for supposed diversity and going on at the same time the System Open, almost every list featured Nym in the top 8. And, sure Epislon Leader was part of the winning list but it’s not like QD and Kylo are unusual meta choices.

European meta isn't intrinsically more diverse, it just evolve at a faster pace than the American one (probably thanks to the sheer amount of big events we have here. There are players who managed to play at both UK and Poland SoS while also attending huge regionals in the meanwhile).

People adapts, both their playstyle and their list building, much easier if they (and their teammates!) get the chance to play so much.

If anything, Europe had already figured out Ghost Fenn wasn't the dominant archetype at the time of the polish sos (despite having one reaching the final) while at the same time in America (assuming that this forum and in particular this thread might represent a generic American feeling) was still crying about how nefarious it was.

If anything, I would say that European meta is more competitive than the American one: we had proof for that in the past by how much more common both 3 jumps and parattanni were in this side of the Atlantic, and those were 2 lists far more dominating their meta than Miranda low sheathipede or ghost fenn are right now.

Europe is more competitive, people git gud against meta lists rather than whining and that's possible because in the arc of one month they can attend a regional where they discover the new brokenness, another regional where they can test an anti-brokeness list or strategy (if they don't choose to embrace brokenness themselves of course) and then a system open where they have a solid gameplan for everything that's meta.

And many people actually attended much more major events than just 3 in one month.

How common is something like for Americans?

Just now, Sunitsa said:

European meta isn't intrinsically more diverse, it just evolve at a faster pace than the American one (probably thanks to the sheer amount of big events we have here. There are players who managed to play at both UK and Poland SoS while also attending huge regionals in the meanwhile).

People adapts, both their playstyle and their list building, much easier if they (and their teammates!) get the chance to play so much.

If anything, Europe had already figured out Ghost Fenn wasn't the dominant archetype at the time of the polish sos (despite having one reaching the final) while at the same time in America (assuming that this forum and in particular this thread might represent a generic American feeling) was still crying about how nefarious it was.

If anything, I would say that European meta is more competitive than the American one: we had proof for that in the past by how much more common both 3 jumps and parattanni were in this side of the Atlantic, and those were 2 lists far more dominating their meta than Miranda low sheathipede or ghost fenn are right now.

Europe is more competitive, people git gud against meta lists rather than whining and that's possible because in the arc of one month they can attend a regional where they discover the new brokenness, another regional where they can test an anti-brokeness list or strategy (if they don't choose to embrace brokenness themselves of course) and then a system open where they have a solid gameplan for everything that's meta.

And many people actually attended much more major events than just 3 in one month.

How common is something like for Americans?

You also have leebo and bb8 poe, and stayed on Jumps way longer than it took america to move to Palp Aces.

If we are spouting anecdotes and headcanon, my guess is that they all jusst didn't realize the prisoners dilemma of fun that the game is now.

19 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

I normally have massed identical generics as my jam, so here's my take on it-

With a constant focus (optics) and a constant TL, they have action efficiency. with 6 health, they have the ability to blank out and not immediately eat ****. The dial gives them ToT.

It's flexible, and the decision points you make with the list are frequent and actual decisions- It gives you agency to win on your own terms.

This is pretty much exactly it.

To elaborate a bit more, the AGI3, 6HP, Autothrusters defensive array is really great against a lot of the most powerful things in the meta right now. You've got the hit points to soak heavy attacks and the defense to resist massed TLT shots.

Add in that I'm an aggressive player, the high speed and action efficiency make it pretty easy to generate a lot of double modified 4 dice attacks.

3 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

You also have leebo and bb8 poe, and stayed on Jumps way longer than it took america to move to Palp Aces.

If we are spouting anecdotes and headcanon, my guess is that they all jusst didn't realize the prisoners dilemma of fun that the game is now.

"We" didn't really have leebo: a very good team brought leebo at a major tournament where he was a perfect meta call.

He was never actually meta in the sense you could expect to find leebo in events were Rasta maice and his crew weren't attending and the conditions that made him a good call were fast to come by.

Bb-8 poe is far from being meta either. It happens to be the favourite ship of one of the best player around, but it's far from being meta.

We also have double IG control entering in every cut of every major event they appeared, but it's also a case of a single good player bringing them to the top, they aren't meta.

You have manzano going top 4 with 3 jumps post ultimate nerf, are 3 jumps part of your meta?

There is quite a lot of archetypes (prevalently rebels but with also significant imperial ones) that could win/enter consistently in the cut any given tournament right now.

I dare to say there is more variety now than almost ever

But yeah, you can keep on circlejerking about Miranda and prisoner dilemmas if you prefer

2 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

This is pretty much exactly it.

To elaborate a bit more, the AGI3, 6HP, Autothrusters defensive array is really great against a lot of the most powerful things in the meta right now. You've got the hit points to soak heavy attacks and the defense to resist massed TLT shots.

Add in that I'm an aggressive player, the high speed and action efficiency make it pretty easy to generate a lot of double modified 4 dice attacks.

The combination of FCS, Autothrusters, and Advanced Optics is crazy solid. And the K-Turn / Talons often still end up having full mods which is a nice added Rey like bonus.

Pretty nice alternative to 2x Rho boats.

28 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

European meta isn't intrinsically more diverse, it just evolve at a faster pace than the American one (probably thanks to the sheer amount of big events we have here. There are players who managed to play at both UK and Poland SoS while also attending huge regionals in the meanwhile).

People adapts, both their playstyle and their list building, much easier if they (and their teammates!) get the chance to play so much.

This is probably a very valid point that I haven't seen brought up. The European meta is a lot more interconnected and it might lead to people being able to react more. I don't know if that's the same as a more evolved meta since it's a lot more like what I'd consider a local meta where people more easily recognize what lists are doing well and know what will be at tournaments and then practice and prepare for it. Please note this is not a negative at all, I just see how the meta could be different in that respect.

32 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

If anything, I would say that European meta is more competitive than the American one: we had proof for that in the past by how much more common both 3 jumps and parattanni were in this side of the Atlantic, and those were 2 lists far more dominating their meta than Miranda low sheathipede or ghost fenn are right now.

Europe is more competitive, people git gud against meta lists rather than whining and that's possible because in the arc of one month they can attend a regional where they discover the new brokenness, another regional where they can test an anti-brokeness list or strategy (if they don't choose to embrace brokenness themselves of course) and then a system open where they have a solid gameplan for everything that's meta.

Well, to be fair, without people pointing out concerns about a list, we'd probably still be in that triple jump + paratanni meta

8 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

"We" didn't really have leebo: a very good team brought leebo at a major tournament where he was a perfect meta call.

He was never actually meta in the sense you could expect to find leebo in events were Rasta maice and his crew weren't attending and the conditions that made him a good call were fast to come by.

Bb-8 poe is far from being meta either. It happens to be the favourite ship of one of the best player around, but it's far from being meta.

We also have double IG control entering in every cut of every major event they appeared, but it's also a case of a single good player bringing them to the top, they aren't meta.

You have manzano going top 4 with 3 jumps post ultimate nerf, are 3 jumps part of your meta?

There is quite a lot of archetypes (prevalently rebels but with also significant imperial ones) that could win/enter consistently in the cut any given tournament right now.

I dare to say there is more variety now than almost ever

But yeah, you can keep on circlejerking about Miranda and prisoner dilemmas if you prefer

I’m not sure where all the feel goods went, but I agree with your major point. I’ve got a metaphorical mental list of about 30 names, and I would bet a very large amount that the worlds cut will be at least half people from that list.

Partly it is skill at playing the game, partly they keep making good meta calls, maybe it’s partly final boss syndrome.

I agree with the un-fun of certain strong lists, but good players find a way. BB8, Leebo, triple jumps, Nand’s article list. They are outliers individually, but there is something when you group them together.

53 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

European meta isn't intrinsically more diverse, it just evolve at a faster pace than the American one (probably thanks to the sheer amount of big events we have here. There are players who managed to play at both UK and Poland SoS while also attending huge regionals in the meanwhile).

People adapts, both their playstyle and their list building, much easier if they (and their teammates!) get the chance to play so much.

If anything, Europe had already figured out Ghost Fenn wasn't the dominant archetype at the time of the polish sos (despite having one reaching the final) while at the same time in America (assuming that this forum and in particular this thread might represent a generic American feeling) was still crying about how nefarious it was.

If anything, I would say that European meta is more competitive than the American one: we had proof for that in the past by how much more common both 3 jumps and parattanni were in this side of the Atlantic, and those were 2 lists far more dominating their meta than Miranda low sheathipede or ghost fenn are right now.

Europe is more competitive, people git gud against meta lists rather than whining and that's possible because in the arc of one month they can attend a regional where they discover the new brokenness, another regional where they can test an anti-brokeness list or strategy (if they don't choose to embrace brokenness themselves of course) and then a system open where they have a solid gameplan for everything that's meta.

And many people actually attended much more major events than just 3 in one month.

How common is something like for Americans?

A few things:

1. Euro meta used to be different - it has converged
   1. it did not have "more" paratanni
   2. it did have more deadeye scouts, and you guys were just bad or unwilling to palp ace each other, apparently
2. Denser area means it's easier to attend more major events - this has been covered
3. UK is a single data point -
   1. it might be an indicator of a change (we shall see that in the coming months), or
   2. it's just a single tournament, with some variations

So basically... no.

A single point makes an infinite plane, if you're trying hard enough.

3 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

A few things:

1. Euro meta used to be different - it has converged
   1. it did not have "more" paratanni
   2. it did have more deadeye scouts, and you guys were just bad or unwilling to palp ace each other, apparently
2. Denser area means it's easier to attend more major events - this has been covered
3. UK is a single data point -
   1. it might be an indicator of a change (we shall see that in the coming months), or
   2. it's just a single tournament, with some variations

So basically... no.

A single point makes an infinite plane, if you're trying hard enough.

I never referred to just the Yavin sos.

I'm.not even from UK and didn't get the chance to go there

You have more precise juggler numbers than me, i'll take your word on parattanni being as common as both sides. I tend to recall there were lots of surprise on this board (which is largely American based) by the amount of paratanni in the European sos, but my memory is not a reliable source

Speaking of which, at what point did palpaces non commonwealth defenders became so good against jumps or derivation of jumps (post big faq it was fenn+2jumps)

And denser player base might have been discussed before, but I've never seen it going further this. "oh those lucky Europeans can attend so many more.tournament".

I think that the fact that those lucky Europeans can attend so many more tournament has an impact on how meta develops. I think more events=more dymamic meta since people has more chance to adapt (if I see a list performing well last week, this week I can either play it or play something good against it)

But I don't have data to back my words so whatever

Just now, Sunitsa said:

Speaking of which, at what point did palpaces non commonwealth defenders became so good against jumps or derivation of jumps (post big faq it was fenn+2jumps)

OOOOOH, you didn't mean deadeye jumps then. I only meant for deadeye jumps (they struggled in the US by mid-summer due to palp aces, but were still prolific in Europe up until the nerf).

1 minute ago, Sunitsa said:

And denser player base might have been discussed before, but I've never seen it going further this. "oh those lucky Europeans can attend so many more.tournament".

I think that the fact that those lucky Europeans can attend so many more tournament has an impact on how meta develops. I think more events=more dymamic meta since people has more chance to adapt (if I see a list performing well last week, this week I can either play it or play something good against it)

But I don't have data to back my words so whatever

I think that's probably correct.

Also, Europeans are lucky for more than just distance... *stares at healthcare, transportation, and many other things, longingly*

Meh

1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:

Also, Europeans are lucky for more than just distance... *stares at healthcare, transportation, and many other things, longingly*

Look just a bit north. But not too long. We don't know if what you have is contagious. Or if just looking could spread it

4 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

"We" didn't really have leebo: a very good team brought leebo at a major tournament where he was a perfect meta call.

He was never actually meta in the sense you could expect to find leebo in events were Rasta maice and his crew weren't attending and the conditions that made him a good call were fast to come by.

Bb-8 poe is far from being meta either. It happens to be the favourite ship of one of the best player around, but it's far from being meta.

We also have double IG control entering in every cut of every major event they appeared, but it's also a case of a single good player bringing them to the top, they aren't meta.

You have manzano going top 4 with 3 jumps post ultimate nerf, are 3 jumps part of your meta?

There is quite a lot of archetypes (prevalently rebels but with also significant imperial ones) that could win/enter consistently in the cut any given tournament right now.

I dare to say there is more variety now than almost ever

But yeah, you can keep on circlejerking about Miranda and prisoner dilemmas if you prefer

Say it again for the Kylo at range 3!

6 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

OOOOOH, you didn't mean deadeye jumps then. I only meant for deadeye jumps (they struggled in the US by mid-summer due to palp aces, but were still prolific in Europe up until the nerf).

I'm not sure what you are referring thought, because according to this http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos?ranking_start=2017-03-17&ranking_end=2017-11-06&large_tournament_multiplier=true&widespread_use_multiplier=true&use_ranking_data=all&tournament_type=&

Palpaces were basicacally non existent between the 2 nerfs. That summer saw an handful of good players, Europeans too (one of the 7-0 at ETC was a palpaYorr, QD, Vessery for example) having great success with some declination of palpaces. But between Manaroo nerf and the Biggs nerf palpaces seemed to be a very tiny portion of the meta. Palpatine at that point was seeing play pratically only in RAC+ace lists

And earlier, between Deadeye and Manaroo nerf, it was just Commonwealth Defenders who were using palpa in both continents.

After nerf Palpatine was picked up veeeery slowly by everyone and become meta after torpedos jumpmasters were gone and forgotten.

If you have other data please point it our: as I said my memory isn't the best and I'm not sure how far I can trust metawing

2 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

I'm not sure what you are referring thought, because according to this http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos?ranking_start=2017-03-17&ranking_end=2017-11-06&large_tournament_multiplier=true&widespread_use_multiplier=true&use_ranking_data=all&tournament_type=&

Palpaces were basicacally non existent between the 2 nerfs. That summer saw an handful of good players, Europeans too (one of the 7-0 at ETC was a palpaYorr, QD, Vessery for example) having great success with some declination of palpaces. But between Manaroo nerf and the Biggs nerf palpaces seemed to be a very tiny portion of the meta. Palpatine at that point was seeing play pratically only in RAC+ace lists

No, I said I I thought you meant BEFORE the deadeye nerf (March - October 2016).

Palp was still prominent after that nerf, though nearly always palp defenders (but nothing compares to the deadeye scout times, where it approached ~25% of cuts).

Post manaroo and x7 nerfs, imperials broadly (including palp aces lists) fall off a cliff, likely due to the saturation of assaj and bumpmaster, which dumpsters the imperial faction at the time.

2 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

If you have other data please point it our: as I said my memory isn't the best and I'm not sure how far I can trust metawing

Metawing does have some flaws, namely that juggler occasionally has multiple entries for tournaments, and metawing doesn’t lump lists together well enough (it gives each palp aces variant a name, rather than noting they’re all an underlying palp aces list).

i did go pull juggler manually and review the data, which I put here, if you’re interested:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kNos2DhJfYOwKfFBVZS3GbnADB4WL6NvByuCeNmLdtc

56 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

No, I said I I thought you meant BEFORE the deadeye nerf (March - October 2016).

Palp was still prominent after that nerf, though nearly always palp defenders (but nothing compares to the deadeye scout times, where it approached ~25% of cuts).

Post manaroo and x7 nerfs, imperials broadly (including palp aces lists) fall off a cliff, likely due to the saturation of assaj and bumpmaster, which dumpsters the imperial faction at the time.

Uhm, my perception on the matter is probably screwed by the fact my own meta (the Italian one) was heavily impacted by a huge delay of Jumps wave release (we got them on June rather than march like the rest of the world).

BUT was palpaces really that good against deadeye, zuckuss and 4Lom carrying Jumps? And could they really fare well in a meta where Party Bus was also common? And that's without even starting to talk about Dengaroo.

Despite being the most common archetype, I don't recall palpaces being that good in the post release Jumps meta. We don't have way to prove it unless you are also collecting specific matchup win rates, but if that's true, the fact that Palpaces were more common in USA is another proof of my theory of European Meta being more dynamic and faster at identifying real dominants archetypes

I also suspect that in 2016 Jugglers number were mostly USA only with just a bit of UK. But again, it's something you probably are more able to prove than me

56 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Metawing does have some flaws, namely that juggler occasionally has multiple entries for tournaments, and metawing doesn’t lump lists together well enough (it gives each palp aces variant a name, rather than noting they’re all an underlying palp aces list).

i did go pull juggler manually and review the data, which I put here, if you’re interested:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kNos2DhJfYOwKfFBVZS3GbnADB4WL6NvByuCeNmLdtc

Thanks for the Data, I love it!

Some questions on how to read it: what's the difference between "2 jumps" "3 jumps" and "2 ships scum" in 2016? Is 2 Jumps ante litteram Dengar+Tel/Manaroo? Considering brobots have their own entry, "2 ships scum" means any combination of firespray and another ship? Partybus+double jump is "3 ships scum"?

Compiling and sharing those sheets really make me say Krayts on Top! As a number lover you really made my day

28 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Uhm, my perception on the matter is probably screwed by the fact my own meta (the Italian one) was heavily impacted by a huge delay of Jumps wave release (we got them on June rather than march like the rest of the world).

BUT was palpaces really that good against deadeye, zuckuss and 4Lom carrying Jumps? And could they really fare well in a meta where Party Bus was also common? And that's without even starting to talk about Dengaroo.

Despite being the most common archetype, I don't recall palpaces being that good in the post release Jumps meta. We don't have way to prove it unless you are also collecting specific matchup win rates, but if that's true, the fact that Palpaces were more common in USA is another proof of my theory of European Meta being more dynamic and faster at identifying real dominants archetypes

Palp aces (soontir, inq) were SUPER good against deadeye scouts.

This is primarily due to scouts needing to bid against each other in the mirror (intel), and that zuckuss and 4 lom don't do enough against these aces (see dengaroo, which brought zuckuss - didn't matter).

28 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

I also suspect that in 2016 Jugglers number were mostly USA only with just a bit of UK. But again, it's something you probably are more able to prove than me

My 2016 data set uses 53 tournaments.

26 of those were not-North America (Europe, Brazil [when they could use all waves], and Australia).

21 (39.6%) were Europe-Only.

28 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:

Some questions on how to read it: what's the difference between "2 jumps" "3 jumps" and "2 ships scum" in 2016? Is 2 Jumps ante litteram Dengar+Tel/Manaroo? Considering brobots have their own entry, "2 ships scum" means any combination of firespray and another ship? Partybus+double jump is "3 ships scum"?

Compiling and sharing those sheets really make me say Krayts on Top! As a number lover you really made my day

So,

• 2 jumps is anything with 2 deadeye scouts + a 3rd ship (ex: 2 deadeye scouts + a bumpmaster falls into this category)
• 3 jumps explicitly looks at 3 deadeye scouts (any crew combo)
• 2 ship scum is any 2-ship scum combo that isn't dengaroo (dengaroo labeled separately).
  • Basically, it's a "Pick two" of these ships : Dengar, Tel, Bossk, Boba, Kath, IG-88B, Trandoshan Slaver
  • Brobots are their own category

Also, thanks! I love data, and honestly how they interact with "feelings."

For instance, you might be super correct palp aces died (or weren't big) in your area; basically, you're not wrong. Just that the overall trend was heavily favored on palp aces. The backwards-looking conclusions (and experience) is that this was because of "super" soontir (stealth, autos, palp) and Inquisitor (focus/evade/thruster/palp), and their near untouchability if only being shot by 1-2 shots a turn. Soontir could literally take 3 torpedoes a turn (at range 3), and be fine:

http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/alpha/?q=JAEAIAhYgAYL0GABGggAAAIAAAA

Only a 41% chance to take 1 hit, and that's using the "nerfed" palp (I don't know of any calculators that still have pre-nerf palp in there). With pre-nerf palp, the numbers are lower.

Granted, there is no reason either ace should be taking THREE torpedoes in one turn, but the fact they might not die from it is... well, stupid. I'm glad that stuff is gone.

Edit: It's hard to do old zuckuss now too, but I ran the numbers after US nationals when I saw Duncan dodge R1 shots from dengaroo, and thought he was lucky. Turns out, R1, in arc, full zuckuss rerolls against soontir (stealth, double focus, evade, palp, but no thrusters [range 1]) had only a 33% chance to hit... That was, to say the least, illuminating.