30 minutes ago, Brunas said:

On banning Miranda effectively being banning the entire K-Wing. My gut says you're right, or at least this is true in 90%+ of ships? To meta-wing! This isn't a comprehensive list or anything, but going down "highest magic" ship types I'll enumerate:

1. Sheathipede would survive banning Fenn
2. Auzituck would survive banning Low
3. K-Wing would not meaningfully survive a Miranda nerf - and frankly, I'd have nerfed EI while ASlam was nerfed, FFG is merciful!
4. VCX in it's entirety would have to be banned
5. Attack Shuttle isn't a real ship
6. TIE/SF Backdraft is decent, and funnily probably much better if QD doesn't exist
7. Rebel Scurrg literally doesn't exist if Nym is banned
8. TAP is only The Inquisitor and we all know it
9. Lambda would survive an OGP ban, not a palp ban
10. Falcon would survive banning one (or even multiple) pilots. Falcons are really well done now I think, there's actual options. I wish the entire game were balanced at this power level. Sorry for the aside
11. Gunboats may be able to get by without Nu's
12. T-70 still has Jess without Poe, borderline
13. JM5K - they're all just fine
14. Defenders get by just fine without whichever happens to be the most popular
15. Lancer - Asajj comically better, Ketsu is only run because you can't have two of asajj
16. YT-2400 gets on just fine without Dash. Unironic new leebo meta
17. ARCs only exist in Norra
18. TIE Advanced may as well be called Vader
19. Scum Scurrg has Sol Sixxa, but he's garbage without Nym
20. Rebel HWK ?????????????? these exist?

I think that's far enough, but surprisingly at least to me almost every good ship outside of the K-Wing and TAP (and rebel scurrg by definition) would escape it's most common pilot ban mostly unscathed.

That's not including upgrade banning though, which there's no reason to think wouldn't be a thing. It avoids the whole "My model is useless problem" though.

This is like the slimmed-down version of Community Mod. So legit question: if Community Mod actually gets in a solid place, how much do you care to use it as an alternate format? You guys ran the Krayt cup, which is obviously an alt format.

Informal poll: at what stage of development would Community Mod have to get to, to care about it and/or start running events with it?

1. Squad Builder support
2. All ships useable in the Mod
3. Full Vassal support with auto-spawn and card text changes included
4. All ships tested and properly rebalanced
5. I'll never care, I only play hardcore competitive!

It's not there yet, but it'll get there. Squad builder support is in progress, over half the ships have been tweaked for the Mod, vassal integration is planned, as is a full balance testing of all changes. It'll just take time.

3 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:

This is like the slimmed-down version of Community Mod. So legit question: if Community Mod actually gets in a solid place, how much do you care to use it as an alternate format? You guys ran the Krayt cup, which is obviously an alt format.

Informal poll: how polished would Community Mod have to be to legit start care about it and/or start running events with it?

1. Squad Builder support
2. All ships useable in the Mod
3. Full Vassal support with auto-spawn and card text changes included
4. All ships tested and properly rebalanced

It's not there yet, but it'll get there. Squad builder support is in progress, over half the ships have been tweaked for the Mod, vassal integration is planned, as is a full balance testing of all changes. It'll just take time.

Those are my biggest hurdles.

To me, balance is less of an issue than just being able to quickly get up and play.

3 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:

Informal poll: how polished would Community Mod have to be to legit start care about it and/or start running events with it?

1 and 2, maybe also 3

1. Because building a list is slightly more complicated. A squad builder makes it trivial, and should vastl improve the accessibility

2. Because people like the shiny new toys. And exluding my favorite ship will decrease the likelihood of me trying it.

Maybe 3. Because it makes testing so much more convenient.

Not 4. because you can release it as open beta were we all test it. A tournament advertised as such should still draw a crowd. I‘m assuming that the balancing is improved by many playing it, and that it increases with decreasing novelty.

11 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:

This is like the slimmed-down version of Community Mod. So legit question: if Community Mod actually gets in a solid place, how much do you care to use it as an alternate format? You guys ran the Krayt cup, which is obviously an alt format.

Informal poll: at what stage of development would Community Mod have to get to, to care about it and/or start running events with it?

1. Squad Builder support
2. All ships useable in the Mod
3. Full Vassal support with auto-spawn and card text changes included
4. All ships tested and properly rebalanced
5. I'll never care, I only play hardcore competitive!

It's not there yet, but it'll get there. Squad builder support is in progress, over half the ships have been tweaked for the Mod, vassal integration is planned, as is a full balance testing of all changes. It'll just take time.

Like Travis said, the difficulty is getting people to play it. If you don't come from a position of authority, that becomes hard.

Also, Bombs should probably be something that always goes with imperfect info, while you are taking suggestions. Maybe make Dial bombs always drop at start of activation?

Back in the dark days of wave 11 pre-nerf I remember I was trying to drum up support for my own FAQ/erratta and asking for your advice. I'm wondering how much those meta complaints hold, and how much of it seems quaint now.

3 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:

Informal poll: how polished would Community Mod have to be to legit start care about it and/or start running events with it?

1. Squad Builder support
2. All ships useable in the Mod
3. Full Vassal support with auto-spawn and card text changes included
4. All ships tested and properly rebalanced

Speaking personally, if there was squad-builder support (and enough re-balanced ships, but that's already true, IMO) I would be willing to push it for League events and small local tournaments.

I'd be playtesting already, if there were squad-builder support. I'm (barely) willing to take the pre-gen lists you've provided and do it, but my most likely playtest partner isn't.

1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Speaking personally, if there was squad-builder support (and enough re-balanced ships, but that's already true, IMO) I would be willing to push it for League events and small local tournaments.

I'd be playtesting already, if there were squad-builder support. I'm (barely) willing to take the pre-gen lists you've provided and do it, but my most likely playtest partner isn't.

I second this notion. Simply making it easier to access and build list would mean that I can probably get someone to help test it.

On another note, are Death Troopers a "better" biggs? Not in power level terms, but rather in terms of balance. They still only work at range one, and they provide a defensive buff but they don't force your opponent to do anything. Seem fine, but the game is too high in terms of power level for them to work.

5 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Like Travis said, the difficulty is getting people to play it. If you don't come from a position of authority, that becomes hard.

Also, Bombs should probably be something that always goes with imperfect info, while you are taking suggestions. Maybe make Dial bombs always drop at start of activation?

Back in the dark days of wave 11 pre-nerf I remember I was trying to drum up support for my own FAQ/erratta and asking for your advice. I'm wondering how much those meta complaints hold, and how much of it seems quaint now.

My bomb changes are pretty boring. Sabine gets nerfed so she can't cause damage to ships that weren't already taking damage from bombs (i.e. she becomes like Cad Bane), and Bomblet Generator is every other round. See here:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/264083-x-wing-community-mod/?do=findComment&comment=3182200

20 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:

t what stage of development would Community Mod have to get to, to care about it and/or start running events with it?

1. Squad Builder support
2. All ships useable in the Mod
3. Full Vassal support with auto-spawn and card text changes included
4. All ships tested and properly rebalanced
5. I'll never care, I only play hardcore competitive!

1. Ain't nobody got time to make squads by hand
2. Half the enjoyment of the game is trying out the new stuff I bought so not having all ships available would put a major damper on things. I understand that newly released content would take some time to make its way in as it would have to be adjusted but having that be a (relatively) swift but more importantly predictable timeline is important to me. I might still try an event that didn't include all ships since that's little different than an original trilogy event or some such. But only older ships would put a significant damper on my willingness to use the format for casual weekly games.
3. Zero cares, but that's just me
4. To me this is the entire point of the mod, if I want unbalanced X-wing I have the official version

Not on the list as it's obviously a bit of a catch-22 but there being largish (ie. >20 people) events running under it is likely to be the biggest thing that would make me take the plunge. I'm equally if not more likely to sign up for a community mod side event as I am for a standard hangar bay side event. But it's hard to justify just replacing casual games with it and then having to switch back for competitions.

27 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:

Informal poll: at what stage of development would Community Mod have to get to, to care about it and/or start running events with it?

1. Squad Builder support
2. All ships useable in the Mod
3. Full Vassal support with auto-spawn and card text changes included
4. All ships tested and properly rebalanced
5. I'll never care, I only play hardcore competitive!

When 1 and 2 are done and 4 is under way is when I'd put up an event with any format, if one of them takes off, it'd get a repeat. So far, our only attempt that was loved enough to warrant a repeat (instead of trying something new) was the random list generator.

I ran a poll locally to get data about what people actually want from the game (results to come soon, though they may not represent your region), and people actually enjoy alt formats and are not just in it for the win around here.

1 hour ago, Timathius said:

make the ruling "ships may not preform boost and or barrel roll actions as free actions unless specified by a pilot ability or upgrade."

Just drive that nail right through Soontir's heart, why don't you? And take the Inquisitor with him, I guess.

42 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:

This is like the slimmed-down version of Community Mod. So legit question: if Community Mod actually gets in a solid place, how much do you care to use it as an alternate format? You guys ran the Krayt cup, which is obviously an alt format.

Informal poll: at what stage of development would Community Mod have to get to, to care about it and/or start running events with it?

1. Squad Builder support
2. All ships useable in the Mod
3. Full Vassal support with auto-spawn and card text changes included
4. All ships tested and properly rebalanced
5. I'll never care, I only play hardcore competitive!

It's not there yet, but it'll get there. Squad builder support is in progress, over half the ships have been tweaked for the Mod, vassal integration is planned, as is a full balance testing of all changes. It'll just take time.

This is a hard question. I think the answer is basically the one you've gotten 2, and 3.5. Though, 5 is a real answer, but I don't think it's hardcore competitive, but the vast majority of players are not committed to x-wing enough to learn an entirely new ruleset for it. It's why we tried to touch as little as possible in objectives and... clearly not an option for you. It also makes it hard to convince locals to try it, because you hand them the list of changes and it's a whole lot to take in at once. I'm not sure of the solution.

Also, what happens when you rebalance a ship and a fix comes out for it? Do you keep your fix, or mold FFG's fix into the game? I know you've thought (and discussed) this before, just giving my locals gut reactions to wanting to try it.

7 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

Just drive that nail right through Soontir's heart, why don't you? And take the Inquisitor with him, I guess.

Fenn did just fine with a single reposition! If you take away double repositioning actions, with turrets massively toned down, arc dodging is actually hard, and that's... good?

9 minutes ago, Brunas said:

This is a hard question. I think the answer is basically the one you've gotten 2, and 3.5. Though, 5 is a real answer, but I don't think it's hardcore competitive, but the vast majority of players are not committed to x-wing enough to learn an entirely new ruleset for it. It's why we tried to touch as little as possible in objectives and... clearly not an option for you. It also makes it hard to convince locals to try it, because you hand them the list of changes and it's a whole lot to take in at once. I'm not sure of the solution.

Also, what happens when you rebalance a ship and a fix comes out for it? Do you keep your fix, or mold FFG's fix into the game? I know you've thought (and discussed) this before, just giving my locals gut reactions to wanting to try it.

One of the core guiding principles that I have enshrined in digital stone is to stay as close to FFG's stock 1.0 game as possible, to reduce barrier to entry and make it more broadly appealing. So, when FFG comes out with a fix then I'll incorporate their new cards, corrected for the power curve in the Mod, and then back out my own changes if I can. I know this will happen with the X-wing fixes that FFG has in the pipeline for us, although I doubt they are going to get generics to be useful, so it'll still be a combination of the stock cards and some custom Community Mod cards.

I'd say the biggest issue is just the mental load required to account for two separate card pools/metas simultaneously. I'm the guy who tries to remember the exact wordings on cards, how they interact on a precise level, the latest FAQ errata rulings, point costs for relevant pilots/upgrades, dials for each ship, etc. I am already starting to hit a wall as the game continues to grow. Having a separate version of the game with slight tweaks on a bunch of pilots and upgrades with the same/similar names gets overwhelming fast - it's an issue of memory but also compartmentalization. It would be really hard to get me to buy into a parallel version of X-Wing unless the "here's what's different" list could fit on a single page.

The mental load is real. The crazy things that get asked on casual days are quirky enough that having to deal with a different ruleset once in a while does mean it needs to be easily searchable.

Luckily, I wouldn't lose hardcore players to playing this variation, as they're also playtesters, so they're used to varying rules all the time.

I'll read up on it, maybe for our April event, since it's just after the last close regional and the CDN National.

1 hour ago, skotothalamos said:

Just drive that nail right through Soontir's heart, why don't you? And take the Inquisitor with him, I guess.

If either one of them needs to double repo they did something really stupid and shouldnt be rewarded for it.

39 minutes ago, drjkel said:

The mental load is real. The crazy things that get asked on casual days are quirky enough that having to deal with a different ruleset once in a while does mean it needs to be easily searchable.

Luckily, I wouldn't lose hardcore players to playing this variation, as they're also playtesters, so they're used to varying rules all the time.

I'll read up on it, maybe for our April event, since it's just after the last close regional and the CDN National.

Once the squad builder is fully armed and operational, any changes to card text or related conditions will be included in the list details. Stock card text will also be included as well, but any differences to stock will be emphasized.

1 hour ago, Timathius said:

If either one of them needs to double repo they did something really stupid and shouldnt be rewarded for it.

but after I barrel roll out of your arc, I want to focus *and* make the shot range 1! weh!

Dang I leave for like a day and this thread has exploded. In the middle of the week no less!

5 hours ago, MajorJuggler said:

This is like the slimmed-down version of Community Mod. So legit question: if Community Mod actually gets in a solid place, how much do you care to use it as an alternate format? You guys ran the Krayt cup, which is obviously an alt format.

Informal poll: at what stage of development would Community Mod have to get to, to care about it and/or start running events with it?

1. Squad Builder support
2. All ships useable in the Mod
3. Full Vassal support with auto-spawn and card text changes included
4. All ships tested and properly rebalanced
5. I'll never care, I only play hardcore competitive!

It's not there yet, but it'll get there. Squad builder support is in progress, over half the ships have been tweaked for the Mod, vassal integration is planned, as is a full balance testing of all changes. It'll just take time.

6. I give zero f---- about Community Mod, however if ffg loses the license and Community Mod takes over like the SWCCGPC did for the decipher card game I would probably give it a look.

12 hours ago, Brunas said:

1. Rebel HWK ?????????????? these exist?

I strongly recommend you to check results of the latest System Open Series in Krakow which was massive tournament, over 330 players from 22 countries.

Please compare number of Ghosts to number of HWK that made a cut (5-1 and 6-0).

You'll be surprised

1 hour ago, Oldpara said:

I strongly recommend you to check results of the latest System Open Series in Krakow which was massive tournament, over 330 players from 22 countries.

Please compare number of Ghosts to number of HWK that made a cut (5-1 and 6-0).

You'll be surprised

But that‘s the HWK guy, right? So basically cheating to use him as example. The same as citing Nathan for Corran ?

7 hours ago, Oldpara said:

I strongly recommend you to check results of the latest System Open Series in Krakow which was massive tournament, over 330 players from 22 countries.

Please compare number of Ghosts to number of HWK that made a cut (5-1 and 6-0).

You'll be surprised

Sadly, I remember the numbers, because it's Poland

If arc dodgers cannot boost/roll as free actions... then that is more a nerf to arc dodgers and turrets will once again rise to the top of the world.

11 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

If arc dodgers cannot boost/roll as free actions... then that is more a nerf to arc dodgers and turrets will once again rise to the top of the world.

Nah. Well if Boost/Roll didnt exist as free actions or pre-movement actions I am not sure Turrets would exist as a mechanic in the first place.

Two sides of the same coin.

Side note...I always find it funny the way we talk about arc dodging like its something that exists in X-Wing outside of honorable rocket knight swiss matchups.

6 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

But that‘s the HWK guy, right? So basically cheating to use him as example. The same as citing Nathan for Corran ?

Yea, one of them was The HWK Guy Jan Swirski - Polish Champion, two others guys were form Austria - including Kimy - Czech/Slovakia champion.

With basically the same list: Miranda, Lowhhrick, Rebel Operative HWK with slightly different load out.

Anyway there were 3 HWK and 3 Ghosts that made a cut, which I find hilarious