5 hours ago, Mattman7306 said:

From the Dear FFG thread:

Miranda can't be a problem, the meta hasn't settled! Its not like shes been a major threat in literally every meta shes been apart of! It was unknowable!

Is there a particular reason that you felt like dragging me into a conversation that I wasn't a part of and quoting me out of context? Also no she has not been a major threat in every meta since wave 7. Palp Aces and torp scouts destroyed her, as did Paratanni. She was considered pretty bad until Sabine showed up, and was still not the pilot of choice until Biggs got nerfed by the timing chart.

35 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

I love people that are like "People shouldn't just be like 'Nerf this' Get gud! I got gud!" In a fashion where they don't understand that sometimes getting good it not possible. for example, arcdodging is a thing, but with ghost/fenn it isn't, and regen is a problem when you have 3+ shields.

But if you are admitting that you're not as good at the game, why should I listen to you when it comes to balancing? That's what every other major game does when it comes to it, they listen to the top tier. Also I was fundamentally objecting to nerfing the Miranda chassis. Sabine certainly needs a looking at, and I'm still surprised they released bomblet the way they did. But making Miranda shoot a single one die attack if she wants to regen will kill her deader than Manaroo.

Also yes, you totally can arc dodge the Ghost. I did it for three rounds with Vader in the final round. So is your complaint more that there are actual good players at this game, who have reaped the benefits of constant practice?

Did anyone see if .npe is available?

So yeah.last episode was fantastic.

58 minutes ago, DarkArk said:

But if you are admitting that you're not as good at the game, why should I listen to you when it comes to balancing? That's what every other major game does when it comes to it, they listen to the top tier. Also I was fundamentally objecting to nerfing the Miranda chassis. Sabine certainly needs a looking at, and I'm still surprised they released bomblet the way they did. But making Miranda shoot a single one die attack if she wants to regen will kill her deader than Manaroo.

Also yes, you totally can arc dodge the Ghost. I did it for three rounds with Vader in the final round. So is your complaint more that there are actual good players at this game, who have reaped the benefits of constant practice?

If your argument is that I am not good, and therefore wrong, you don't have a good argument. As for Miranda, I am advocating for nerfing regen in general, not just Miranda. She is, and will always be a problem, along with other regen ships (exception being Pulsed ray shield). The add a die part of her ability is interesting, but the remove to regen when coupled with TLT is a problem - it lets you potentially deal one less damage to get one shield back.

As for Vader arc-dodging the ghost, he is the exception, not the rule. Try doing it without two actions at PS 11, and it gets harder. I'm not saying you are a bad player, just that your list has some innate advantages in that situation. Without PS 11, it is not possible (or you spend so many points on it that you cripple yourself against other matchups) As for my skill being relevant, and an amount of practice, I spend a good amount of time (4+ hours) a week practice, and I don; have much more because 1. I am a college student, and 2. I have a part time job. When those two combine, It means that I don't have that much time. My problem is not that people can practice and get better than me - that is normal. Nor is my problem that people can take better lists and beat me - that too is normal. My problem is that someone new to the game can take something so good that unless I have a hard counter in my list, I lose. It doesn't feel good to play against, and ultimately this is a game, so, if it isn't fun, why play?

Some Numbers:

The Average Miranda Rank in Swiss at 2017 world per juggler is 53, which is not a low number (also not a giant number, but still, something to take into account)

Same number for VCX is 40, also a good number

41 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

If your argument is that I am not good

No, that was the argument that you said in the first place, with regards to assuming my argument boiled down to "git gud." The context of all this of course was in a thread that was specifically asking for feedback.

41 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

She is, and will always be a problem, along with other regen ships

Well Imperials are getting their hard counter to Rebel regen, so I imagine they'll be less dominant in the future. As is, I doubt people would be willing to take a 40+ point ship that was 9 hull and one agility if they couldn't get some health back. Miranda actually has the weakest regen of the major forms of it, since she has to be in weapons range to use it and can't SLAM.

41 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

As for Vader arc-dodging the ghost, he is the exception, not the rule

Goal post moving, love it. You said it wasn't even possible in the first place. Yes, ships that can't move twice at the highest PS aren't as good at it. That's why I took one of the best, and it cleared the field of many of the supposed broken lists that people complain about.

41 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

My problem is that someone new to the game can take something so good that unless I have a hard counter in my list, I lose.

But that has literally always been true, since the days of the Wave 1 Howlrunner TIE Swarm. It nearly killed the game before it even got started.

Let's keep it wholesome people

Miranda regen (and regen broadly) is a problem.

The only way to arc dodge ghost fenn reliably is to be ps 11 with a 2-point bid or higher (this, a narrow set of lists can do it).

The targeted Manaroo nerf didn’t kill manaroo, so if there’s a nerf to Miranda I hope it it does a better job than the manaroo nerf did.

Having new ships/waves be immediately meta-viable is good.

Having new ships/waves lower the skip gap is less good (depending on your goals, of course).

5 hours ago, DarkArk said:

But that has literally always been true, since the days of the Wave 1 Howlrunner TIE Swarm. It nearly killed the game before it even got started.

Have you actually ever seen a new player run a Howlrunner Swarm against a competent player? It's not remotely the same as the current Ghost setup.

In other news...

I just re-discovered that Scum Trip Aces are incredibly fun, a healthy source of freedom, and part of a well balanced diet. Also kinda legit at countering the Hungry Ghost!

Here are the ingredients:

• One Concussion Missile
• One Cruise Missile
• Two packets of Glitterstim
• One Deadeye
• Two Guidance Chips
• One Cobra
• One Correct Fenn
• One Bullseye
• Two points of bid.
• A touch of Freedom
• A dash of Salt

Mix gently in a bowl then place all the contents into a Crock Pot and let it cook for approximately 2 months. Be careful not to join. Allow time to prove.

During the next episode of X-Wing Iron Chef we will be baking a classic Ego layer cake. Can you guess the secret ingredient?

How exciting. Its just so delightful to cook with such great friends. See you next time.

Commercial Break Bonus Question:

What X-Wing lists do you think Martha Stewart, Keanu Reeves, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Christopher Walken, and the Rock would use if they were real actual celebrities?

7 hours ago, DarkArk said:

Is there a particular reason that you felt like dragging me into a conversation that I wasn't a part of and quoting me out of context? Also no she has not been a major threat in every meta since wave 7. Palp Aces and torp scouts destroyed her, as did Paratanni. She was considered pretty bad until Sabine showed up, and was still not the pilot of choice until Biggs got nerfed by the timing chart.

I figured since I linked the thread, this wasn’t exactly out of context. I didn’t mean to call you out in particular, but you were the first example of a common theme expressed by the septics in the thread. I can kinda see where you come from in terms of your position on Ghost-Fenns, but I strongly disagree with Miranda. Even if she was only powerful once Sabine came out, that’s still more than a year and a half on the top. That’s more than enough time to determine Miranda needs a nerf.

With your examples of bad matchups, all 3 have been nerfed, 2 have been nerfed to unplayability in their original form. And Palp Aces is not a counter, autothruster aces may be able to dodge tlt, but Sabine bombs dumpster them. And if you take beefer aces, then tlt does them in. You lose, one way or another.

Welcome back to our program. We continue with our topic „pointless, heated internet arguments“. I‘m your host, qualified to comment due to my vast experience in this topic of pointless heated arguments.

Before the break we saw @DarkArk defend his point against a freerider in this topic. We got an accusation of a goalpost fallacy, and also misrepresenting or misunderstanding previous remarks. Will they be able to reconcile, or will it devolve into full-on mud slinging?

We also saw the local favorite, @Tlfj200 join in. He clearly refuted DarkArk in one point: highPS arc dodgers are a tiny amount of lists. I‘m being told that our fact checkers just confirmed that during the break. Oh, but he also implied he wants to see Miranda gone for good. Will anyone react?

Now after the break we can see @Mattman7306 joining back into the discussion after that left-right combo. He defends himself and tries to de escalate the situation? Will it work? Will they ever be able to forgive each other and to reach an agreement on the situation?

Stay tuned!

50 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

In other news...

I just re-discovered that Scum Trip Aces are incredibly fun, a healthy source of freedom, and part of a well balanced diet. Also kinda legit at countering the Hungry Ghost!

Here are the ingredients:

• One Concussion Missile
• One Cruise Missile
• Two packets of Glitterstim
• One Deadeye
• Two Guidance Chips
• One Cobra
• One Correct Fenn
• One Bullseye
• Two points of bid.
• A touch of Freedom
• A dash of Salt

Mix gently in a bowl then place all the contents into a Crock Pot and let it cook for approximately 2 months. Be careful not to join. Allow time to prove.

During the next episode of X-Wing Iron Chef we will be baking a classic Ego layer cake. Can you guess the secret ingredient?

How exciting. Its just so delightful to cook with such great friends. See you next time.

An experienced ace in my area has been experimenting with a scummy, harpoony, thweeky build to pretty devastating effect.

33 minutes ago, viedit said:

An experienced ace in my area has been experimenting with a scummy, harpoony, thweeky build to pretty devastating effect.

Thweek! What is dead may never die! I prefer Talonbane memes instead.

Have to admit that my enthusiasm for X-Wing has been revived a bit by a commitment to make Scum Trip Aces work.

There are a handful of combos of Fenn, Guri, Talonbane, Dalan M12, or Torani M12 etc. that can put in work.

Its remarkable how much Scum can pack into these 32-34 pt small base arc platforms, though Starvipers are still overpriced and the Kimogilia is just a Tie Bomber with an Illicit.

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

Welcome back to our program. We continue with our topic „pointless, heated internet arguments“. I‘m your host, qualified to comment due to my vast experience in this topic of pointless heated arguments.

Before the break we saw @DarkArk defend his point against a freerider in this topic. We got an accusation of a goalpost fallacy, and also misrepresenting or misunderstanding previous remarks. Will they be able to reconcile, or will it devolve into full-on mud slinging?

We also saw the local favorite, @Tlfj200 join in. He clearly refuted DarkArk in one point: highPS arc dodgers are a tiny amount of lists. I‘m being told that our fact checkers just confirmed that during the break. Oh, but he also implied he wants to see Miranda gone for good. Will anyone react?

Now after the break we can see @Mattman7306 joining back into the discussion after that left-right combo. He defends himself and tries to de escalate the situation? Will it work? Will they ever be able to forgive each other and to reach an agreement on the situation?

Stay tuned!

This is both totally unexpected, and unexpectedly delightful.

@GreenDragoon This is why I keep coming back to this thread

43 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Its remarkable how much Scum can pack into these 32-34 pt small base arc platforms, though Starvipers are still overpriced and the Kimogilia is just a Tie Bomber with an Illicit.

The Kimo is a PS 9/10 bomber with a 3 dice primary, 3 shields + 6 hull, and access to contraband cybernetics. They can dish out a yuuuuuuuge amount of damage and tank the return volley and do it all over again on the next turn. Thweek is there as a sheep herder flanking in from the side. Contraband cybernetics is an amazing 1 point upgrade. Get to do a k-turn while stressed and still acquire a target lock. Means the difference between life or death for them.

13 minutes ago, viedit said:

The Kimo is a PS 9/10 bomber with a 3 dice primary, 3 shields + 6 hull, and access to contraband cybernetics. They can dish out a yuuuuuuuge amount of damage and tank the return volley and do it all over again on the next turn. Thweek is there as a sheep herder flanking in from the side. Contraband cybernetics is an amazing 1 point upgrade. Get to do a k-turn while stressed and still acquire a target lock. Means the difference between life or death for them.

Yea I am finding that both Talonbane and Dalan/Torani are typically good for 2 shots per game before they are destroyed.

Its very much a game of I will lose a ship but so will you. Historically not a great tactic but its still fun.

The reload can be a big deal and yes cybernetics is excellent.

Especially on PS10 Torani since he can use it and not die before shooting that turn, though I am warming up to the Dalan Kimogilia.

The Kimogilia overall is sorta exactly what I was hoping the Scrugg would be when it was spoiled.

Torani is Nym with less health and no Turret/Bombs.

10 hours ago, DarkArk said:

She was considered pretty bad until Sabine showed up

Sabine didn't make Miranda good. People figuring out how to actually play Miranda optimally is what made her good.

25 minutes ago, miguelj said:

Sabine didn't make Miranda good. People figuring out how to actually play Miranda optimally is what made her good.

People complain about Miranda, but she has to be flown well and/or heavily protected or she just dies. Poof.

5 minutes ago, gennataos said:

People complain about Miranda, but she has to be flown well and/or heavily protected or she just dies. Poof.

No old adv SLAM Miranda... That's not what the data indicated.

Well, not that she wasn't played "well", but that if played knowing the adv SLAM map, you removed your opponent's dials in about 160 degree arc in front of you up to range 3. Thus, people weren't playing her "correctly" from that perspective from a long time, and it's cited by the devs as the reason they nerfed adv SLAM (agency).

1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

No old adv SLAM Miranda... That's not what the data indicated.

Well, not that she wasn't played "well", but that if played knowing the adv SLAM map, you removed your opponent's dials in about 160 degree arc in front of you up to range 3. Thus, people weren't playing her "correctly" from that perspective from a long time, and it's cited by the devs as the reason they nerfed adv SLAM (agency).

I'd argue most Miranda players didn't know that map nor how to execute on it well if they did. You might have seen that at higher level play, but I've never come across a Miranda player who wasn't perfectly capable of whiffing on a bomb drop and parking her directly in the midst of multiple arcs. Myself included.

5 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I'd argue most Miranda players didn't know that map nor how to execute on it well if they did. You might have seen that at higher level play, but I've never come across a Miranda player who wasn't perfectly capable of whiffing on a bomb drop and parking her directly in the midst of multiple arcs. Myself included.

I'd argue most K-wing player's didn't know the map. I had one tell me that it's easy to not be there, but unless you are PS1 or PS2 with a bid, you are wrecked.

Edit: @GreenDragoon am I a freeloader? I don't feel like a freeloader...

3 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Have you actually ever seen a new player run a Howlrunner Swarm against a competent player? It's not remotely the same as the current Ghost setup.

Back in waves 1-3? Sure. It will still destroy a janky three ship Rebel list unless you really know what you're doing. But then I also don't think that the Ghost is the be all end all list that people are making it out to be. None of them made it to top 8 at my regional. The PS11 boost probably shouldn't be a thing, but beyond that four hyper accurate TLT shots on a PS3 for 73 points that can get stopped somewhat by stress control seems reasonably balanced to me. But then I've also never lost to it.

2 hours ago, Mattman7306 said:

Even if she was only powerful once Sabine came out, that’s still more than a year and a half on the top.

So because something has been "on top" even though we just showed that she hasn't been all powerful during her life span, she is deserving of a nerf? Why do you think this? See this is my problem with a chunk of this community now, they think in terms of nerfs rather than in trying to counter the meta. Which is rather wide open if you pay attention in regionals results. Certainly more so than in previous years.

2 hours ago, Mattman7306 said:

And Palp Aces is not a counter, autothruster aces may be able to dodge tlt, but Sabine bombs dumpster them.

And this is where, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, you need to learn to fly. Vader/Soontir/Kylo/Whisper should be able to take Miranda in a 1v1. Which considering she is 45-48 points and all of those ships are cheaper isn't a great matchup for the Miranda. You know exactly where her bomblet is going to be every round. There is no reason that you should ever be hit by it. Disengage for a turn if you have too. It will take 4-6 less-powerful TLT shots to kill them, and god forbid you manage to get to range 1 and she shoots you with two dice while you half health her. Adv. SLAM is gone and people aren't running her with Exp. Interface. People are running her as a jouster now, and that makes her vulnerable because she isn't that good at it and it isn't where she wants to be.

Deleted

1 minute ago, DarkArk said:

And this is where, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, you need to learn to fly. Vader/Soontir/Kylo/Whisper should be able to take Miranda in a 1v1. Which considering she is 45-48 points and all of those ships are cheaper isn't a great matchup for the Miranda. You know exactly where her bomblet is going to be every round. There is no reason that you should ever be hit by it. Disengage for a turn if you have too. It will take 4-6 less-powerful TLT shots to kill them, and god forbid you manage to get to range 1 and she shoots you with two dice while you half health her. Adv. SLAM is gone and people aren't running her with Exp. Interface. People are running her as a jouster now, and that makes her vulnerable because she isn't that good at it and it isn't where she wants to be.

No - old adv SLAM, and EI (effectively the same thing), can still dumpster an ace with unavoidable damage.

The ace will need a distraction to get meaningful shots (allowing them to be sidways or behind Miranda for some time), or the Miranda player has to be oblivious to the adv SLAM map; otherwise, the ace cannot be in that 160 degree front arc within range 3, or get auto-clustered [needs action bomb to be viable].

As for non-EI: Sure? Though regen still allows her to get games to unwinnable conditions against half a list, which is the general complaint for regen.

8 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I'd argue most Miranda players didn't know that map nor how to execute on it well if they did. You might have seen that at higher level play, but I've never come across a Miranda player who wasn't perfectly capable of whiffing on a bomb drop and parking her directly in the midst of multiple arcs. Myself included.

Nerfs are done precisely because of the competitive scene.

Just because most Miranda players weren't doing it, doesn't change the fact it was being done. And Alex specifically said they didn't like things that removed agency (though one could argue they didn't go far enough on agency-removing effects/upgrades).