35 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:So much freedom...its beautiful and confusing in equal measure.
After beating Fel and two Rhos tonight with it, it brings back that smile I've been missing recently. Fly by dial and instinct, and smile away as things go boom.
19 minutes ago, LagJanson said:After beating Fel and two Rhos tonight with it, it brings back that smile I've been missing recently. Fly by dial and instinct, and smile away as things go boom.
Soontir fel, or the good one?
Just now, Do I need a Username said:Soontir fel, or the good one?
Hey, if I'm beating Fel with PS3 Phantoms some wrong choices were made anyway - probably mine for doing something stupid and unpredictable. This was TC and autothrusters Soontir. To be fair though, I don't think my opponent would turn in, with three TIE Phantoms on his tail, in any sort of big event. Better to run off and look for a better opening. This was likely suicide to end the pain.
2 minutes ago, LagJanson said:Hey, if I'm beating Fel with PS3 Phantoms some wrong choices were made anyway - probably mine for doing something stupid and unpredictable. This was TC and autothrusters Soontir. To be fair though, I don't think my opponent would turn in, with three TIE Phantoms on his tail, in any sort of big event. Better to run off and look for a better opening. This was likely suicide to end the pain.
That's not what I was referencing. Targeting computer or Stealth device, still Soontir fel. I mean the real Fel.
3 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:That's not what I was referencing. Targeting computer or Stealth device, still Soontir fel. I mean the real Fel.
While unseen at tournaments, Soontir Fel is still alive in the wilds, sometimes seen gallivanting between rocks and debris.
15 minutes ago, LagJanson said:While unseen at tournaments, Soontir Fel is still alive in the wilds, sometimes seen gallivanting between rocks and debris.
No, the REAL Fel. Soontir doesn't have enough Wrath.
This feels like a more productive place to post this.
Imperial:
Rebel:
Scum
1 hour ago, Do I need a Username said:That's not what I was referencing. Targeting computer or Stealth device, still Soontir fel. I mean the real Fel.
Fels wrath is a pilot ability that when put into any list some would consider the outcome unnatural.
33 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:This feels like a more productive place to post this.
Is this a list of things that commonly get above PS9?
I'm not sure why anyone is convinced capping PS at 9 changes or does... much of anything, really. Maybe there's some argument I'm missing?
5 minutes ago, Brunas said:Is this a list of things that commonly get above PS9?
I'm not sure why anyone is convinced capping PS at 9 changes or does... much of anything, really. Maybe there's some argument I'm missing?
People for it will tell you it will open up the meta because all of those 8s and 7s will be able to finally Ps match the natural 9s.
People against the idea will make the case that is taking VI out of the equation for 9s just pushes them to start looking at PTL, expertise, predator, outmaneuver, and any other useful EPT, and since they don’t have to worry about higher ps anymore, will continue to outshine all the 7s and 8s who are using VI to ps match them.
It makes Whisper better and that's all I care about?
2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:Dengar - JM5K - PS9
I don't think that Dengar should even be on the list: there is one instance each in post-TS/Genius nerf regional season where a guy played PS10 or 11 Dengar. All others are Expertise, Predator or Wired.
It's really just Vader, QD, Poe and Fenn. And of those only Vader cares inherently. QD only does if using missiles as she's a brawler otherwise, Poe only does if going against missiles to use BlackOne, and Fenn does not care much about a bid anyway.
These are all pilots using VI, out of 1090 lists in regionals since January 27th. 10 out of 12 possible PS11 ships were played, and the vast majority are the four I mentioned: 32 are "others", compared to 402 for the four frequent ones!
| ahsokatano | airencracken | asajjventress | backdraft | bossk | captainjonus |
| 2 | 6 | 11 | 10 | 11 | 1 |
| carnorjax | colonelvessery | contractedscout | corranhorn | dalanoberos | darthvader |
| 1 | 15 | 1 | 1 | 13 | 50 |
| dashrendar | dengar | genesisred | guri | hansolo | ImperialBoba |
| 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 13 | 1 |
| ImperialKath | jakefarrell | ketsuonyo | kyloren | lieutenantkestal | maarekstele |
| 1 | 1 | 6 | 8 | 1 | 4 |
| majorvynder | maulermithel | ndrusuhlak | neradantels | omegaspecialist | poedameron |
| 6 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 23 |
| poedameron-swx57 | puresabacc | quickdraw | quinnjast | rearadmiralchiraneau | RebelFenn |
| 90 | 2 | 128 | 1 | 25 | 134 |
| RebelNym | rexlerbrath | rey | rhosquadronveteran | scourge | ScumBoba |
| 71 | 3 | 8 | 1 | 1 | 5 |
| ScumFenn | ScumNym | serissu | solsixxa | talonbanecobra | tennumb |
| 1 | 28 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 1 |
| testpilotblackout | theinquisitor | toranikulda | wedgeantilles | wesjanson | whisper |
| 2 | 4 | 9 | 5 | 8 | 3 |
| wullffwarro | |||||
| 1 |
|
7 hours ago, Brunas said:Is this a list of things that commonly get above PS9?
I'm not sure why anyone is convinced capping PS at 9 changes or does... much of anything, really. Maybe there's some argument I'm missing?
I agree. Its just a list of all the ships that are PS7 or above. The more important or same argument though is that Thweek is bad?
Edited by Boom Owl7 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:People for it will tell you it will open up the meta because all of those 8s and 7s will be able to finally Ps match the natural 9s.
People against the idea will make the case that is taking VI out of the equation for 9s just pushes them to start looking at PTL, expertise, predator, outmaneuver, and any other useful EPT, and since they don’t have to worry about higher ps anymore, will continue to outshine all the 7s and 8s who are using VI to ps match them.
I've heard your second point used as an argument for limiting PS to 9. Pilots who are natural PS9 can spend their valuable slot on something to make them better... If you want to leverage a different pilot ability in your squad, you can spend your EPT slot on being PS9 and competing at the top table, or you can pick up another EPT.
Ultimately, whatever the ceiling on PS is, be it 12, 11, 9 or whatever the competetive list building scene will twist around it. Certainly, my view is that it would do little other than drive people to bid bigger.
30 minutes ago, Dreadai said:Ultimately, whatever the ceiling on PS is, be it 12, 11, 9 or whatever the competetive list building scene will twist around it. Certainly, my view is that it would do little other than drive people to bid bigger.
The bid wars would be ridiculous, but I think for only certain ships/strategies will it actually matter. Yeah some people will just bid for all of their PS9 ships, but here's a hint....it doesn't really matter what higher pilot skill or if you gave me initiative if I just block you and destroy you with the rest of my ships. (Felt like I was channeling my inner Travis on that one)
Honestly, look at the recent shift from PS11 QD to Expertise QD for some of the players that have played and had success. In the meta right now, that's a serious argument and I personally side with the Expertise version these days.
Edited by RStanOOoh, content!
Instinct/Non-math opinion - It wouldn't change a heck of a lot if things were capped at 9. There would be more and different players trying to be the top pilot skill and bidding to get the chance to move last, but it's still playing the same game of trying to obtain that "perfect information" before revealing their own dial.
And of course - if Thweek is moving last, and you are still losing, clearly it's the dice at fault and that harpoons need to be nerfed.
10 minutes ago, LagJanson said:And of course - if Thweek is moving last, and you are still losing, clearly it's the dice at fault and that harpoons need to be nerfed.
It is known
8 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:People for it will tell you it will open up the meta because all of those 8s and 7s will be able to finally Ps match the natural 9s.
People against the idea will make the case that is taking VI out of the equation for 9s just pushes them to start looking at PTL, expertise, predator, outmaneuver, and any other useful EPT, and since they don’t have to worry about higher ps anymore, will continue to outshine all the 7s and 8s who are using VI to ps match them.
I think VI ought to be in the game, because the option to go high in PS keeps highly responsive ships in check.
Can it be more than a point, though? PS is so extremely valuable to many ships that it would be good if there were some opportunity cost.
3 points seem fair, then you're choosing between power and PS, not power vs PS+free points.
But there is an opportunity cost. I limit it to the native PS11 because all others will never be able to guarantee initiative.
Only Vader, Fenn and Poe can use VI without losing too much power. And that‘s because Vader has his free actions, Poe has virtually infinite focus (also amount to free actions) and Fenn does not care about power because he is a control/support ship.
QD only takes VI if there‘s a reason for it. 3bqd would take expertise if it had the points. I‘m actually surprised that there was no ASTS+PrimedThruster/bid version @Brunas. Anyway, a missile is a reason, no points is another reason. But QD does not get extra benefit from PS the way that Vader, Poe, Soontir, Kylo etc do. Of course having perfect information is always positive, but it‘s not win or lose for QD.
I am currently sitting at approving the cap at PS9, but don't dare to say that I have given it considerable thought.
In regards to capping PS at 9, in my mind, the question is: Can FFG keep the game balanced enough to make taking a large bid risky? I am feeling more and more sure each wave that the answer is no. I like to think that I can utilize the points others are spending on bids to improve my match-ups, but I think the Dengaroo/ODJ/Whisper races to the bottom have shown us that this only works if their isn't a clear choice at the top.
EDIT: The whole point was to point out that a certain someone has already proved that Kylo + Soontir is viable as is.
Edited by AT LeaderIf everything is capped at ps9, don’t you just unironically take Kylo soontir and a bid? Or better yet, just take Kylo and figure it out later
1 minute ago, abell19 said:If everything is capped at ps9, don’t you just unironically take Kylo soontir and a bid? Or better yet, just take Kylo and figure it out later
Yes
3 minutes ago, abell19 said:If everything is capped at ps9, don’t you just unironically take Kylo soontir and a bid? Or better yet, just take Kylo and figure it out later
Ended too early.
It's a cool idea, and I support it... with other balance fixes with that concept in mind. Ultimately, VI/Adapt are boring.
2 hours ago, Biophysical said:I think VI ought to be in the game, because the option to go high in PS keeps highly responsive ships in check.
Can it be more than a point, though? PS is so extremely valuable to many ships that it would be good if there were some opportunity cost.
3 points seem fair, then you're choosing between power and PS, not power vs PS+free points.
I'd almost rather see other costs to it.
Veteran Instincts - 1 point
Increase your pilot skill by 2.
You cannot perform Boost, Barrel Roll, or SLAM actions.
Arc dodgers that always move last aren't particularly interesting, sadly. If you cap PS at 9, there's a good chance I'm going to roll up with lists like Kylo + Soontir (or Kylo + Quiz, for an even bigger bid, but unlikely) and no one is going to have fun. The most fun games with arc dodgers are games where things are moving after you, without great re-positioning. Better properly be in their head!
Edited by Brunas14 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:It's a cool idea, and I support it... with other balance fixes with that concept in mind. Ultimately, VI/Adapt are boring.
And that's the problem since historically we don't see well thought through comprehensive changes, or anything even remotely resembling them...
I'm neither particularly for or against the idea in general, but it will not at all do what a huge chunk of the forum seems to think it will do ie make PS7 pilots suddenly relevant or end the PS wars, they just shift to bids (and massively important lucky initiative rolls which feels bad man)