1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

Is that assuming Stealth Device?

Yes. Targeting Soontir is, was, and will probably always be a mistake.

7 minutes ago, Brunas said:

People have forgotten Soontir math, so let me put it here for reference:

88% to dodge a range 3 harpoon. 94.5% if it's obstructed. Not including palp, those numbers are so close to 0% it's irrelevant.

I assume you mean effectively 0% chance to dodge cause... green dice

8 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Yes. Targeting Soontir is, was, and will probably always be a mistake.

Now I am conflicted.

Normal operation is just to steal all build ideas from @Biophysical but Krayts only say true things...

non sequitur

4 minutes ago, Brunas said:

People have forgotten Soontir math, so let me put it here for reference:

88% to dodge a range 3 harpoon. 94.5% if it's obstructed. Not including palp, those numbers are so close to 0% it's irrelevant.

The math is good. Mentally I've pretty much equated a single shot by itself at range 3 is more to keep a Fel player honest.. Keep him rolling those green dice just in case it's that 5% failure. I don't waste munitions on range 3 Fel unless time is running out and desperate.

Where I find the encounter brakes down is when you separate out the good Fel players from the bad ones (me!) - It's the dial where the Fel player breaks and makes the wrong choice landing in arc at range 1-2. I love hunting Fel, that's the type of game I enjoy. I don't always win it (see good players) but it's always an interesting match up.

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

Yes. Targeting Soontir is, was, and will probably always be a mistake.

Go right to ****.

15 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

This is my list, with Maarek for Vessery.

More often than not, Soontir can straight bounce a single harpoon.

IS the PS relevant, or do you just find Vessery underwhelming? Just curious, and eager to improve my variant slightly.

1 minute ago, Do I need a Username said:

IS the PS relevant, or do you just find Vessery underwhelming? Just curious, and eager to improve my variant slightly.

I so rarely target lock that I just about never trigger Vessery. Might as well get PS and an ability.

6 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I so rarely target lock that I just about never trigger Vessery. Might as well get PS and an ability.

That's fair, I think your probably right. Everybody trying to hard tech against harpoons is inadvertently wrecking Vessery.

22 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Go right to ****.

SAD

Seriously, unfortunately I've found that in the case where you don't have room for stealth device either you're got the wrong ship, and the inquisitor is what you were looking for, or you've already got both and you're making an incorrect choice in an effort to get a bid.

The edge cases, like your qd/bd/soontir, I think may be better off with mk2, which is dramatically underrated.

2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Seriously, unfortunately I've found that in the case where you don't have room for stealth device either you're got the wrong ship, and the inquisitor is what you were looking for, or you've already got both and you're making an incorrect choice in an effort to get a bid.

It's always been true. There are two reasons to take Targeting Computer. (1) To range-find. (2) To slightly improve offense.

Regarding (1), this is one of the very rare cases in which "git gud" is an actually valid and helpful piece of advice to give someone. Regarding (2), as Chris says ... you're just asking for something out of the wrong ship.

Everything on Soontir screams for Stealth Device. IMO, if Soontir is flying with Palpatine and doesn't have Stealth Device, it should be in the rules that the player must smash Soontir with a hammer to simulate Palpatine's rage at the dumbness.

4 minutes ago, Brunas said:

SAD

Seriously, unfortunately I've found that in the case where you don't have room for stealth device either you're got the wrong ship, and the inquisitor is what you were looking for, or you've already got both and you're making an incorrect choice in an effort to get a bid.

The edge cases, like your qd/bd/soontir, I think may be better off with mk2, which is dramatically underrated.

No one expects the 3 bank green to clear stress.

What's funny is, last I checked, Stealth Device was much higher rated than Targeting Computer for Soontir on Meta Wing, but TC had a higher percentile. Most Soontir pilots fly him with SD, but the TC players, on average, do better. I think that's just because the best players feel they're too cool for school and they have to play something different, whereas most noobs going to major tourneys make sure to carefully plan out their build using netlisting data, but it's still interesting...

5 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

It's always been true. There are two reasons to take Targeting Computer. (1) To range-find. (2) To slightly improve offense.

Regarding (1), this is one of the very rare cases in which "git gud" is an actually valid and helpful piece of advice to give someone. Regarding (2), as Chris says ... you're just asking for something out of the wrong ship.

Everything on Soontir screams for Stealth Device. IMO, if Soontir is flying with Palpatine and doesn't have Stealth Device, it should be in the rules that the player must smash Soontir with a hammer to simulate Palpatine's rage at the dumbness.

...and now unironically go back to talking about how Soontir hits like wet noodle.

5 minutes ago, Brunas said:

SAD

Seriously, unfortunately I've found that in the case where you don't have room for stealth device either you're got the wrong ship, and the inquisitor is what you were looking for, or you've already got both and you're making an incorrect choice in an effort to get a bid.

The edge cases, like your qd/bd/soontir, I think may be better off with mk2, which is dramatically underrated.

I'm pretty sure this comes down to a difference in playstyle between us, and it will not be reconciled. My typical three ship squad is full of ships that are independent but complementary. They are strong at different things, but are practiced and used with the overarching intent of coordinating fire to destroy enemy ships.

The BD/QD/Soontir list, for example was throwing 3 3-4 dice attacks with full mods the majority of the time. Fel was by far the hardest thing to kill, and the hardest thing to get shots against. A Stealth Device makes him harder to kill, and easier to ignore. Targeting Computer means if he gets ignored, it's going to hurt so bad. He's still basically turret proof, but he's not invincible. Then again, he doesn't have to be, because either of the other ships can finish the game.

2 minutes ago, kris40k said:

...and now unironically go back to talking about how Soontir hits like wet noodle.

I don't get your point. Yes, Soontir with Targeting Computer has better mods than Soontir without. Unfortunately, Soontir with Targeting Computer dies. The state between "can't survive" and "can't reliably deal good damage" is the Soontir at 35 points that kicked *** for three solid years.

9 minutes ago, kris40k said:

...and now unironically go back to talking about how Soontir hits like wet noodle.

A Wet noodle hurts eventually, and goodness knows Soontir will get plenty of chances to hit.

4 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I don't get your point. Yes, Soontir with Targeting Computer has better mods than Soontir without. Unfortunately, Soontir with Targeting Computer dies. The state between "can't survive" and "can't reliably deal good damage" is the Soontir at 35 points that kicked *** for three solid years.

I'm pretty sure the good Australians regularly used TC Fel to good effect through that time. Stealth feels easier and safer, so it's always been the choice most people have taken.

11 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'm pretty sure this comes down to a difference in playstyle between us, and it will not be reconciled.

The BD/QD/Soontir list, for example was throwing 3 3-4 dice attacks with full mods the majority of the time. Fel was by far the hardest thing to kill, and the hardest thing to get shots against. A Stealth Device makes him harder to kill, and easier to ignore. Targeting Computer means if he gets ignored, it's going to hurt so bad. He's still basically turret proof, but he's not invincible. Then again, he doesn't have to be, because either of the other ships can finish the game.

Probably? I'm just contractually obligated to post something along the lines of angry reacts only whenever soontir shows up without stealth device.

I realize optics wasn't around when you were playing trip aces (or at least not when I saw), but wouldn't you rather have something like this over TC soontir? There's plenty of other good tech, so can substitute for whatever.

"Quickdraw" — TIE/sf Fighter 29
Veteran Instincts 1
Fire-Control System 2
Advanced Optics 2
Lightweight Frame 2
Special Ops Training 0
Ship Total: 36

"Backdraft" — TIE/sf Fighter 27
Veteran Instincts 1
Fire-Control System 2
Lightweight Frame 2
Special Ops Training 0
Ship Total: 32

The Inquisitor — TIE Advanced Prototype 25
Push the Limit 3
Autothrusters 2
TIE/v1 1
Ship Total: 31

4 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Also I just named my list:

I tried to think of something wholesome and safe. https://imgur.com/gallery/zdfIo

We are ready.

Slimer and the GET WRECKED MARSHMELLOW MAN.

I hate that I can't just post pictures

6 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'm pretty sure the good Australians regularly used TC Fel to good effect through that time. Stealth feels easier and safer, so it's always been the choice most people have taken.

It isn't a matter of being "easier and safer." It's a matter of the type of ship you're dealing with. Soontir is a defensive ship. Stealth Device synergizes unbelievably well with that defensiveness, and once Palpatine is introduced, Jeeesus.

Targeting Computer is taking a defensive ship and saying, "Hey, let's make him well-rounded instead." That's absolutely honorable of you, no question. I salute it, and say "Go with God." I really do. Palpatine however, wants to destroy your Interceptor with a hammer, because it's dumb.

8 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'm pretty sure the good Australians regularly used TC Fel to good effect through that time. Stealth feels easier and safer, so it's always been the choice most people have taken.

They ran Reinforced Deflectors too, so we need to give them a hard time for that as well. Anyone know if they have an FFG account to tag and yell at them?

17 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:

I hate that I can't just post pictures

Right click, copy image address. Git gud.

Also I am glad we are finally seeing an appropriate quantity of Robo Cop and Ghostbuster references in this thread.

1 hour ago, Brunas said:

Yes. Targeting Soontir is, was, and will probably always be a mistake.

TC Soontir or no balls.

22 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:

I tried to think of something wholesome and safe.

We are ready.

Slimer and the GET WRECKED MARSHMELLOW MAN.

I did it.noone is safe now.

Stealth device breaks a lot easier these days (or gets bypassed completely by auto-damage).

Also, I think that there's a case to be made that a TC Soontir is going to get ignored just like a Stealh Device Soontir but do a lot more while being ignored.

We're also at a point where Soontir isn't the only endgame ship that Imperials have, so you can build him to actually help take a more dangerous enemy ship off the board earlier.