2 hours ago, catachanninja said:

It might have been slightly before that. All the elements to make fat han existed before wave 4, people hadn't quite pieced it together, I suppose 38-40 points of rebels was a rough spot there too.

Han was kind of waiting for the 3Zs to run with, though, and was helped by the Phantom's ability to basically take a swarm on its own which was actually OK against big base turrets before that.

4 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

Something I've been thinking about lately: it feels like we've been subjected to broken list after broken list for almost as long as I can remember, and I'm trying to think if this is a recent thing or not.

It depends a bit on your experience and horizon I think.

My local meta has some few people who most likely will run what's best, period. But most people don't.
Now it will depend on my perception: is my meta mostly fine because I can totally play tournaments without ever going against a meta list? Or is my meta infected and I need to adjust my own list to cope with the broken lists?

So have I, me personally, been subjected to broken list after broken list? I don't know, that's a difficult question. Does it count if it was indirectly? Does it count if it was once per tournament? Once per season? Or is it enough if the potential threat of the broken list exists?

It looks many of us on the forum answer that last question with yes, but not all.

How many points would you all pay for a modification that made all your Hard turns green? (TIE only) What if it made all your hard turns white? (Again, TIE only) Personally, 3 points, and 1 point.

REAL KRAYT HOURS WHO UP?

KRAYT HOURS ARE THE ONLY TRUE HOURS

9 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:

How many points would you all pay for a modification that made all your Hard turns green? (TIE only) What if it made all your hard turns white? (Again, TIE only) Personally, 3 points, and 1 point.

TIE sf with whitw hards? Hmmm, I might skip LWF for that. It would turn QDs dial into something like Dash, which is a bit ridiculous

18 hours ago, pheaver said:

The TIE Swarm was the OG broken list. For Worlds 2013, the only list I practiced against was the 7 TIE Swarm. If I could beat that, I reasoned, I could beat anything.

There've always been overpowered lists. It's just we're getting much better at the game, and have formed teams and have data gathering websites and recorded games, so the overpowered list of the week spreads much faster than it used to.

Kanan/Fenn feels to me like a really high floor list, like FSR2 was. Having Patchwerk lists isn't necessarily bad for the game: it gives newer players a competitive entry point, for one thing. It's a problem if it becomes oppressive and dominant, destroying a whole faction or pillar of play (TIE Phantoms, Jumpmasters, etc).

Did he just say we're getting good at X-Wing or did he say we are still bad but just less bad? Or are we extra bad at X-Wing?

Sometimes X-Wing feels like this:

Most of the time its basically this:

Now more than I ever I believe that Laser Sword training can beat Simple Tricks and Nonsense pretty reliably.

Even the overpowered lists are kinda bad right now if you really sit down and think about it.

But you still need a weapon to begin with. A lot of people bring nostalgia to a blaster fight

36 minutes ago, Makaze said:

But you still need a weapon to begin with. A lot of people bring nostalgia to a blaster fight

Nostalgia is a legitimate strategy in the False Honor Meta.

Us Listener Lemmings put all our faith in the almighty Gunboat and the results were inevitable.

All the while the Simple Tricks & Nonsense Scientists smiled and waited for their moment.

Its why I am starting to firmly believe that Assaj and Kanan are good but not great and possibly mediocre.

Kanan/Fenn & Dash/Poe in particular are store championship Mynock podcast fake news.

All legitimate Mynock analysis vanished the day Dallas Parker dropped from the show.

16 minutes ago, AgencyBurglar said:

All legitimate Mynock analysis vanished the day Dallas Parker dropped from the show.

Are you Dallas Parker?

Real talk though Dee, Ryan, and Dallas are pretty good players or at least less bad

@Rytackle just needs to make some official Playmats for FFG already...we need playmats with more explosions.

Either way I really do think the popularity of these podcasts has a measurable impact on the popularity of Dash/Poe & Kanan/Fenn same as @Brunas using 3BQD and Wookies that one time.

Dallas Parker is too classy to hype himself.

I'd love to hog credit for VCX/Fenn, but it's been popping up all over the world, and it seems to do fine regardless of the specific loadout...

9 minutes ago, Mynock Delta said:

Dallas Parker is too classy to hype himself.

I'd love to hog credit for VCX/Fenn, but it's been popping up all over the world, and it seems to do fine regardless of the specific loadout...

Are you @SaltMaster 5000?

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Nostalgia is a legitimate strategy in the False Honor Meta.

Us Listener Lemmings put all our faith in the almighty Gunboat and the results were inevitable.

All the while the Simple Tricks & Nonsense Scientists smiled and waited for their moment.

Its why I am starting to firmly believe that Assaj and Kanan are good but not great and possibly mediocre.

Kanan/Fenn & Dash/Poe in particular are store championship Mynock podcast fake news.

Only if everyone is on the same page. Is it OT nostalgia? Wave 3 nostalgia? Pre-big data organized try hard player base meta nostalgia? Each of those creates a different Honor Meta. But yeah the podcasts are exerting an influence by getting more people on the same page and solidifying it so it's becoming more legitimate every day. Nymranda was legal for our recent regionals and only 2 people brought it largely due to most people not wanting to be "that guy"

Also not sure it's false honor if people actually stick to it, just maybe not the best idea if you want to win which kind of sums up honor to a degree. Doing a non-optimal thing in a given situation because of some internal set of rules you think are right and more important than winning sounds a lot like honor to me.

Ghost/Fenn (not Kanan since I think the Ezra crew version may actually be stronger) flat out dumpsters a lot of lists and it's hard counters are either overly specialized or weak against the rest of the meta. I'm not sold that it's the new Nymranda or <meta dominating list of yesteryear>, it'll do less well as people take this advice https://i.imgur.com/P7ViHu5.jpg, but it's a decent list and we're likely to see it in a lot of cuts over the next couple months. Dash/Poe same thing, it wrecks some things, is decent against most everything else, and doesn't require all that much energy to pilot 6+ games in a row. Both are especially good against random jank flown by people that haven't practiced against them... which is most of swiss. So maybe overhyped but not fake

1 hour ago, AgencyBurglar said:

All legitimate Mynock analysis vanished the day Dallas Parker dropped from the show.

There was legitimate mynock analysis?

3 hours ago, Makaze said:

But you still need a weapon to begin with. A lot of people bring nostalgia to a blaster fight

This is so accurate I love it.

I love how almost no one appears to be paying attention to @Mynock Delta being whupped twice by triple Defenders in practice. Is it dismissed because it was a practice game with his son? From his words, he treats those practice game like I do, i.e. "you'll beat me when you're actually better, not a second sooner!"

In my experience (well, my son's), Defenders haven't been bad since x7 dropped. The slight FAQ to getting that evade made them less easy, but they're not bad by any means. Even during the Paratanni hype, that list was the bane of my practice. Fenn is not supposed to hope for 1 hit through! Flown well, Defenders can still put down the hurt, and they're so annoying to try to kill if for whatever reason you need to split fire or don't have oodles of dice. If my wife hadn't challenged me to fly my less used ships, I'd probably still be toying with triple x7s.

48 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Ghost/Fenn (not Kanan since I think the Ezra crew version may actually be stronger) flat out dumpsters a lot of lists and it's hard counters are either overly specialized or weak against the rest of the meta. I'm not sold that it's the new Nymranda or <meta dominating list of yesteryear>, it'll do less well as people take this advice https://i.imgur.com/P7ViHu5.jpg, but it's a decent list and we're likely to see it in a lot of cuts over the next couple months. Dash/Poe same thing, it wrecks some things, is decent against most everything else, and doesn't require all that much energy to pilot 6+ games in a row. Both are especially good against random jank flown by people that haven't practiced against them... which is most of swiss. So maybe overhyped but not fake

Worth repeating verbatim.

If I actually had time to play someone other than my son these days (or hated him enough to inflict this on him), this is what I had planned for Nymranda, though it works on Ghost/Fenn too, I guess: Lok Revenant with Deadeye, EM, Harpoon, Chips (x3), add Boba on one of them. If aces come back, start swapping EMs for autoblaster turrets. I have no illusion that it's a fun list to play or play against, but it does stand a chance against many things if you plan your approach accordingly. For Nymranda, it means that only very bad Miranda players would ever dare get close to anywhere the Boba one could get arc (muh TLT!), I'm guessing it would similarly not be fun for a Ghost as R1 is just as dangerous as the Harpoons and the Boba one can still trigger (though at lower probabilities), so dodging 3 arcs is the only out.

When I had that very simple thought is when I realized that I probably wouldn't have fun (nor would people facing that list) at that regional and should instead stay home and play wholesome random squad games against my son instead. That was the correct choice.

1 minute ago, drjkel said:

I have no illusion that it's a fun list to play or play against, but it does stand a chance against many things if you plan your approach accordingly.

Actually, when playtesting this WAY back in july/august, it was surprisingly fun, because after the torps, it's a dial scrum: you're low PS, and you're trying to guess dials and possibly block, and you have beefy 3-die primaries for close-quarters.

Quad scurrg was similarly interesting for the same reason.

1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

Actually, when playtesting this WAY back in july/august, it was surprisingly fun, because after the torps, it's a dial scrum: you're low PS, and you're trying to guess dials and possibly block, and you have beefy 3-die primaries for close-quarters.

Quad scurrg was similarly interesting for the same reason.

I've found that the most fun I have in this game is when my squad is moving first. There's this great feeling to "getting it right the first time". Using repositioning actions for speed and setup, not reaction.

We live in different metas. People don't take kindly to brutal alpha around here, it just makes people sad. Only one player ever flew multiple torp boats (and it was 2 and a slaver). I was called Captain Meta for months by one player because I took Paratanni to our regional.

We live in a snowflake meta, it keeps the game weird

1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:

Worth repeating verbatim.

Fake news was to loud of a word.

Sounds like there is still general consensus that Kanan/Fenn isn't necessarily the next herald of the apocalypse though.

The list just doesn't pass my standard panic button decision tree of burn it all down questions:

"Does it contain Miranda? If Yes Panic & Burn It All Down. If No Git Gud."

4 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Fake news was to loud of a word.

Sounds like there is still general consensus that Kanan/Fenn isn't necessarily the next herald of the apocalypse though.

The list just doesn't pass my standard panic button decision tree of burn it all down questions:

"Does it contain Miranda? If Yes Panic & Burn It All Down. If No Git Gud."

I feel like these forums/general X-Wing community needs a "DEFCON" tracker.

For example, Trajectory Sim Nym/Miranda before FAQ was DEFCON 1. Now I feel like we're in DEFCON 4, maybe 3 as the Ghost/Fenn talk keeps growing.

Just something to keep up to date weekly and emergency update when necessary outside the weekly time.

6 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I've found that the most fun I have in this game is when my squad is moving first. There's this great feeling to "getting it right the first time". Using repositioning actions for speed and setup, not reaction.

This is especially true for the Inquistor.